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This is a classic example of a thread going off topic.

Sorry to hear about the truck and trailer. Glad you pulled through. I got t-boned by a drunk who passed out behind the wheel. Hit me right in the driver's door at 55mph while I was stopped and waiting to turn. They had to cut me out of the car. My son had a broken arm and my daughter had a fractured vertebrate. I'm disabled for life with a chronic debilitating injury that is inoperable. Thankfully everyone lived. Of course, the drunk guy was 100% fine. Only spent 35 days in jail for his 3rd DUI... second resulting in an accident with injuries. In the mean time, I'm suffering for life. It never ceases to amaze me at how little thought people give to their actions. Seems like very few people even care that they could destroy lives... entire families... even their own. For what?

You said it's not a hobby, then listed a whole bunch of hobbies that it's used for, and then said those hobbies don't sound like hobbies. That's not an opinion... that is silliness.

Just for completeness... This short period of signal, sometimes followed by a beep, is commonly known as a Squelch Tail.

Maybe I am the only one, but I am confused about the purpose of this ongoing rant. Complaints on an online forum are not going to change anything. If you want change, file a Petition for Rulemaking with the FCC. Then get people to support your petition. But, to the points you raise. First, about GMRS radios themselves: Some of your facts are wrong or off target, there is no need for a -5 MHz (not KHz) offset on a GMRS radio. There are only 8 repeater input frequencies defined and those are all 5MHz higher than the 8 defined repeater input frequencies. And, the number of internal memory locations (aka "channels) that a given user needs is very difficult to determine. Probably more than 22, but 180? Zello? Zello works just fine without a GMRS radio at all. But, Zello is an Internet (IP) based app, which means anything that connects to Zello needs an Internet connection. But, you also suggest GMRS should work when away from any cellular infrastructure. So, how is your Zello equipped GMRS radio supposed to connect to Zello when you are in the middle of nowhere? And you complaint about morse code, I really don't know what that is about? We live in a free market economic system. Manufacturers are free to offer products they feel will meet customer and investor needs. You have a choice. And, if you don't like the certified GMRS products you can choose from, there are plenty of other options, from super-cheap CCRs to super-high end Part-90 commercial equipment. Technical questions aside, your major complaint seems to be about licensing fees. Here again I think you are off base. Many services, especially commercial, marine, aviation, LMR, broadcast, common carrier, cellular, etc. have licensing fees and they are often quite expensive. At $7 a year, GMRS is cheap by comparison. Yes, it is more than Amateur. But, Amateur radio is also considered a public service, with a long history and International agreements. And, what difference does it make who you pay a licensing fee to the FCC, the ARRL, a local radio club or whatever? But, even here you are not current. There is now a proposal in the FCC to lower GMRS licensing fees to $50 and add a fee for Amateur radio. The reason? It appears federal law requires fees be set to recover costs. The GMRS fee was bringing in too much money, ham radio was bringing in nothing. You also object to being taxed on your GMRS radio, but have no issue with the FCC requiring a cell phone company to offer a GMRS repeater service on every tower for free. When you consider the equipment and installation costs, plus administration and maintenance costs, are you willing to pay for that every month when Verizon and AT&T raise your bill to cover their costs? There is no free lunch. Ok, you obviously feel strongly about something, otherwise you wouldn't have started this topic and posted 7 follow-up comments. But, it is really hard to understand just what it is you are complaining about and what you think should be done about it. Can you succinctly state the top 5 high level problems you see with GMRS today, the reasons you think those are problems, and 5 proposed solutions.

OK all, Lets just all agree every one uses GMRS for a different purpose. People get into it for different reasons. Now back to the original post. Pretty much same thing. Some open it up others dont. Happy RF !

No extra charge!

I love a logical, lexical, challenge. To start... hob·by an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. "her hobbies are reading and gardening" And, hunting, off-roading, kayaking are all good candidates for hobbies (unless, of course, you do them professionally). But, use of something in support of a hobby does not ipso-facto make that thing into a hobby. So, maintaining a trailer for a kayak is not, in and of itself, a hobby. It is quite probable that no pleasure is derived from that activity. And, maintaining an off-road vehicle is very likely a big part of an off-roading hobby. While buying buying a tank of gas is probably not. The question is: Does the supporting activity on its own, bring pleasure. Of course people and their interests differ. So, while buying gas is a chore to me, best pawned off on another family member, Marc may find it brings extreme pleasure invoking thoughts of flying up (and down) muddy slopes. Which brings us to GMRS and @O-B-1. If he just puts a GMRS radio in his kayak so he will feel safe, I would argue that the radio on its own brings no pleasure and is, therefore, not part of the kayaking hobby, nor a hobby on its own. However, if talking to others as they navigate the jeep trails enhances Marc's enjoyment of off-roading, GMRS might well be an integral part of his hobby. Whether GMRS is also a hobby on its own for Marc depends on the pleasure he derives from it when done in absence of other activities. QED, YMMV

The most common sense answer is, "Just don't while driving." Just drive while you are behind the wheel. Pull over and park if you need to do other tasks. It's just not worth it. I just had my 2010 Ford F-150 and my utility trailer totaled by someone that thought using their cell phone and iPad behind the wheel were more important than driving. There isn't much left of the 2008 Lexus E350 he had just bought, either. I am appalled at seeing 80,000 lb semis weaving out over fog lines and center lines, only to find the driver has a cell phone up against his head. They should know better. Do you?

If you were successful, when you let off the PTT button, you should receive a signal without audio for about 1/2-2 seconds. This is because it is fairly common for the repeater to continue to Tx for a short duration after its input signal has gone away. Michael WRHS965 Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

In the Amateur Radio world, all offsets that are commonly used and considered best practice, have come out of a developed band plan. The band plan dictates what the offsets (frequency pairs) are for coordination, to help prevent harmful interference with other repeaters and other services inside of those allocated spaces. The American Radio Relay League defines the band plan as "a voluntary division of a band to avoid interference between incompatible modes." Does anyone know if something similar exists for GMRS and its repeater offsets? Tradition seems like a good answer, but I have to think there is more to it than that. Also, using non-standard pairs would likely end up causing interference for others who are using the standard +5 in a GMRS dense area like where I am. There are repeaters around my house on every available (standard) pair, with some overlap with several machines, that only have PL tones separating which machine you bring up. You would also break the repeater capability for every repeater capable type approved radio on the market. The FCC issued a PDF as guidance to the makers to help ensure devices meet the type acceptance criteria, and that document shows the +5MHz offsets. While it may not be codified in the rules, based on the document, I am pretty sure that +5MHz is what's expected by the FCC, too.

Never programmed a Motorola radio, but I have heard some complaints by others. I use a handheld radio for GMRS. The one I typically use is the Kenwood TK-370G-1, 128 channel, 4 watts, and part 95 certified. I also own the Kenwood TK-3170-1, 128 channel, 4 watts, and is also part 95 certified. The nice part about both is the ability to program frequencies down to around 440 MHz for the Ham band. The software gives a warning when trying to save the memory channel but takes the entry anyway. The simplex and repeater section of the US Ham 70cm band is between 440 and 450 so I'm not concerned about anything lower. With the above two radios I have access to GMRS and the Ham 70cm band in one radio. Both use easy to find speaker microphones, headsets, battery packs. The radios use the same accessories as the cheap Chinese radios, they cloned the Kenwood interface including the programming cable. When programming in repeaters I use just the access tone for transmit and nothing for the receive. I don't care if the repeater has a receive tone or not so worrying about split tone operation isn't an issue for me. Oh, about old radios with scratched up display glass, really plastic, tooth paste works great to get the scratches out with a lot of rubbing action. Its a VERY mild abrasive. After an hour or so the display glass on a number of my used radios looks almost new.

Sorry to disagree Marc. But your own words defeat you. Yes, while GMRS, FRS, MURS, even LMR can be hobbies, that is not the basic nature or history of those services. Just read the descriptions in the respective parts of the FCC regulations. Similarly banking and money management are not hobbies, but there are people who collect coins. Chefs cook for a living, and for others cooking is a hobby. So, I think Jwilkers (nice to see him on here again) pretty much made the case for what GMRS is. However, for Amateur (ham) radio, it is quite different. It is by definition not professional. That does not mean it can’t be useful, and, indeed, some people actually make money from ham radio. Emergency services organizations are not hobbies either. But, at it’s heart, it is a hobby for people interested in all aspects of radio. People forget that radio amateurs not only operate radios, they design and build them, they build antennas, keys, software tools, and all sorts of related paraphernalia. On GMRS, as you point out, we can’t even modify any element of a radio for which it has been certified. On the other hand, there is no such thing as a certified ham radio. You can tinker with them as much, or as little, as you wish. Just to make the point clearer, has anyone been to a GMRSvention? So, maybe it is a small point, but it is also an important one, while some people, including me, may make a hobby of GMRS, that does not mean that GMRS as a radio service is essentially a hobby.

There is ZERO chance that it will work on simplex, ground level with GMRS. You have a huge ridge line that runs almost parallel, just a degree of two off, but one town is on one side of the ridge while the other is on the blind side of the ridge. You need HF NVIS for reliable comms (probable between 1.9MHz to 3.8MHz) or there needs to be a repeater on the high point of the ridge line about half way between the two towns or two, 200'+ towers on each side of the ridge, in each town.

At the risk of sounding arrogant. I've said this before and will re post it again

If I am just testing my link, I usually key up and say "This is <call_sign > testing. No response needed." Sometimes people will give me a signal report anyway. As far as the shift... if you are only trying to talk to someone without the repeater in the process, you need to disable the shift/offset so the other station will be able to hear you.

I would differ on this view. It depends on what the goal is. If you want to know the maximum possible useful GMRS range in an area, then yes, equipment will matter a lot. However, if you want to know your maximum useful range, then you, by all means, need to test with the same equipment you are going to use. An old developers saying goes something like: Test what you will use. Use what you tested.