WREJ796

Thanks for all the feedback! Sounds like I just can't accurately measure HT antennas, which is fine since I didn't really expect to (I just thought it would be nice). This does bring up a related question though. I've seen quite a few videos and articles describing how they cut down a GMRS 1/2 wave HT antenna until they hit the perfect SWR. Often they're cutting it down to just an inch or two long. Is that a misguided effort based on false SWR readings? I'm clearly no RF engineer, but I thought the physical or electrical length of the antenna had to be at least 1/4 wave to be effective. How can a 1 inch antenna be better than the stock 6" duck?

Can you expand on this? It didn't come with a metal plate, just a handful of antenna adapters and a 5W dummy load. If there's a technique to getting an accurate SWR reading that would be good to know. I also realize I didn't list the HTs: Kenwood TK-360G (stock duck and a 3" Kenwood stubby)BTech GMRS-V1 (stock duck and NA-701c)Wouxun KG-805g (stock duck)

Short version at the end. Background, I recently got a mag-mount 1/4 wave antenna for my vehicle and a "slim jim" antenna to use at home or camping. Performance of both is great and I'm enjoying the increased range and improved audio. However, as I was researching antennas I kept seeing people refer to tuning antennas for best SWR, which led me down the path to get a SWR/power meter so I could check my antennas. Not wanting to break the bank I went with this relatively inexpensive one that was recommended (Youtube, Reddit, blogs, etc): Surecom SW-33 Mark II VHF/UHF SWR/Power Meter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075H8FDDR I used it to check SWR at 462/467MHz on the slim jim (1.1/1.2) and 1/4 wave (1.4/1.5) which seemed to be reasonable. I was curious to see if any of my HTs had one of the notoriously bad rubber duck antennas, so I checked all 4 and got SWRs from 3.0 to 8.9 depending on the frequency. I would say it's a bad meter except for the reasonable readings on the 1/4 wave and slim jim, so if it's not a bad meter why would the SWR be so high on my HT antennas? The main difference is that my HT antennas are all SMA-F while both externals are BNC-M, so I had to use a different adapter. Is it a bad connection on the SMA adapter? If so any tips to get an accurate reading on my HT antennas? Short version: I checked the SWR on my HT antennas and got incredibly high (3.0 to 8.9) readings compared to mobile and base antennas. Wondering if those readings could be accurate or not, and if not what the most likely issue is.

So curiosity got the better of me while I was doing some shopping online for Black Friday and I found a Kenwood TK-360G for $40 on eBay with a new battery and extra antenna. I know the TK-360G is older, but I hoped it would give me that third data point to see which radio has issues. I also wanted to try setting up a crosslink to Zello to include some non-radio friends/family so I needed another radio As an aside the Zello crosslink is amazing and super helpful for testing. Since I can leave one radio linked to Zello at home and take the other radios with me, I can do all of this testing solo using Zello as an echo device back to my phone (bonus, it records everything for later review). Testing was at low power/narrow since I was only in my neighborhood. With the GMRS-V1 at home connected to Zello, I started walking with the UV-5R and TK-360G. Initially both sounded just fine, but as I reached my normal neighborhood limit where the UV-5R starts to hiss a bit, the TK-360G still sounded fine. Farther out the UV-5R dropped out completely, but the TK-360G went another 1/4 mile before it became unintelligible. Returned home, connected the UV-5R to Zello and did the same test. This time both the GMRS-V1 and TK-360G went about to the point where the UV-5R dropped out before. Seems like the UV-5R was the limiting factor on this test. Third time I connected the TK-360G to Zello, UV-5R went as far as last time before dropping out, GMRS-V1 went 1/4 mile farther. Again, UV-5R seems to have reduced range. I wasn't sure if that was enough data to draw any conclusions, so I set up the GMRS-V1 at Point A (from the original test) on high power/wide with Zello crosslink, then drove over to Point B with the other two radios. With the UV-5R I couldn't hit Point A, but the TK-360G was clear (though a bit choppy at times). Talking through Zello (so GMRS-V1 at Point A was transmitting) I could hear pretty well on the TK-360G with a little static, couldn't hear anything at all on the UV-5R. I drove back to Point A and put the UV-5R on Zello, drove back to Point B and tried again. I couldn't hear either the GMRS-V1 or the TK-360G, nor could either of them hear the UV-5R when I transmitted through Zello. Based on that I think its fair to say the UV-5R is the "issue" here, why specifically I don't know. Some other odd issues I noticed with the TK-360G was that it emits a high-pitched whine (almost like feedback, but it's a constant tone and volume) whenever the UV-5R is transmitting, but not when the GMRS-V1 transmits. Likewise the reception on the UV-5R sounds noisy, almost choppy when the TK-360G is transmitting while the GMRS-V1 receives just fine. Reception on the GMRS-V1 sounds fine when either the UV-5R or the TK-360G are transmitting. I'm not sure what's causing that, but as of right now the UV-5R and TK-360G don't like each other. I'll have to test with my friend's UV-5R to see if it's just my UV-5R. Anyway, sorry about the massive wall of text. It's about as long as my Baofeng wild goose chase

So this test wasn't very conclusive, partly because we had limited time and restricted terrain. UV-5R and GMRS-V1 were at Point A and my old FRS started at Point C about 1/4 mile away through a flat neighborhood walking away from Point A. The issue we had was the flat neighborhood drops off on both ends after about 1/2 mile so it's hard to test beyond that range. Anyway, reception was clear on the FRS from both GMRS radios up to 1/2 mile, then as we lost line of sight there was quite a bit of noise and choppy audio. Subjectively it seemed like the audio from the GMRS-V1 was less understandable than the UV-5R, but it was close. From FRS to both GMRS radios reception was fine, but dropped off completely once we lost line of sight. So *maybe* the GMRS-V1 has a transmit issue? To @gman1971's point about desensing, I did notice that sometimes when I was holding both GMRS-V1 and UV-5R only one of them would light up and receive from the FRS. Not every time, but probably 1/3 of the time. Holding them farther apart helped. I don't know when I'll have a chance to do another proper test with multiple radios so for now I guess I'll just accept that my practical line of sight range is about 2-3 miles with the radios I have now.

All I know is that I couldn't hear anything on narrow but results were much better on wide. You're saying it always receives on wideband and just amplifies the narrowband audio rather than receiving only narrowband? When I couldn't hear anything on narrowband in some tests is that because the "volume" was lower than the squelch level (sorry if that's not the right term), or was narrowband actually affecting the transmitted/received signal strength? Since I'm coming from a 0.5W FRS radio the bar wasn't set very high . I'm happy with the GMRS-V1 overall, I just wanted to test the practical limits of range and understand the unexpected behavior, in reality we'll probably be within a half mile of each other most of the time and probably the only ones using radios so this is still a huge upgrade. I did take a look at some of the commercial Kenwood/Motorola radios but all I could find was well-used equipment from $50-150 that may or may not include accessories. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Even with the antenna upgrade I've only spent $60 on the GMRS-V1 for a brand new radio with charger/headset, so it's still the cheapest Part 95A certified option for me. If I could find a used complete radio package for around $50 I would probably upgrade just to see what all the fuss is about

I have my old 0.5W FRS radio. If I'm thinking about this test correctly, I would want to take both UV-5R and GMRS-V1 to Point A and my old FRS to Point C at the limit of its range, then see if one of the 2 radios at Point A has better reception? If so, the radio with worse reception has a receive problem. If not, test transmitting from both and see which one sounds better on my FRS at Point C. Am I going about that correctly?

Took a couple weeks for our schedules to align, but we were able to test swapping radios today. Tested a bunch of different configurations to see what worked the best and here are the (hopefully readable) results. TLDR: Confirmed stock antennas are terrible, NA-771R is a huge improvement. UV-5R doesn't work well on Narrowband. High/Low power doesn't make much of a difference. All tests were performed with the below radios at these locations:Point A - GMRS-V1 - High power (5W) / Low power (2W)Point B - UV-5R - High power (4W) / Low power (1W) To keep things simple we started with "symmetric" tests, same equipment and settings on both radios: NA-771R Antenna Tests Test 1 - We could both hear each other normally GMRS-V1 NA-771R High power Wideband UV-5R NA-771R High power WidebandTest 2 - We could both hear each other, but there was more static GMRS-V1 NA-771R Low power Wideband UV-5R NA-771R Low power WidebandTest 3 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 with a little static, GMRS-V1 could not hear UV-5R at all GMRS-V1 NA-771R Low power Narrowband UV-5R NA-771R Low power NarrowbandTest 4 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 normally, GMRS-V1 could not hear UV-5R at all GMRS-V1 NA-771R High power Narrowband UV-5R NA-771R High power Narrowband Stock Antenna TestsTest 5 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 with a lot of static, GMRS-V1 caught a few bursts of static but nothing recognizable GMRS-V1 Stock High power Wideband UV-5R Stock High power WidebandTest 6 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 with a lot of static, GMRS-V1 could not hear UV-5R at all GMRS-V1 Stock Low power Wideband UV-5R Stock Low power WidebandTest 7 - Neither of us could hear each other at all GMRS-V1 Stock Low power Narrowband UV-5R Stock Low power NarrowbandTest 8 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 with a lot of static, GMRS-V1 could not hear UV-5R at all GMRS-V1 Stock High power Narrowband UV-5R Stock High power Narrowband Based on those tests it seemed like High power Wideband was giving us the best results on both antennas, so we only tested swapping antennas with those settings: Mixed Antenna Tests Test 9 - We could both hear each other, but there was a lot of static GMRS-V1 Stock High power Wideband UV-5R NA-771R High power WidebandTest 10 - UV-5R could hear GMRS-V1 with a lot of static, GMRS-V1 could not hear UV-5R at all GMRS-V1 NA-771R High power Wideband UV-5R Stock High power Wideband If you made it this far, what are your thoughts? Clearly the NA-771R at any power is the winner here, but why were the results so poor on Narrowband?

I'm getting better results with the NA-771R than the stock antenna, but now that I look at the specs I see what you mean about the optimal frequency. Weather and schedules haven't come together for another range test yet, so I'll see what the radio/antenna swap shows and see if a different antenna is needed.

I guess if the problem follows the radio we can both bring our stock antennas and try it with all 4 configurations (stock<->stock, stock<->NA, NA<->NA, NA<->stock). If that indicates the antenna is the issue we can swap Nagoya antennas and see if the issue follows the antenna.

So in this case you're saying his UV-5R may be spreading the 4W of transmit power so it's effectively much lower on frequency, like 1-2W? This would make sense since he could receive me (wouldn't happen with a poor antenna connection?) but I couldn't hear him. I also tried setting my GMRS-V1 to low power (2W) and he could still hear me on both his radios, but with some static noise in the background. I get the feeling the GMRS-V1 is slightly better quality, but I guess some Baofeng/BTech equipment might just "accidentally" end up being right on spec? He tried transmitting with both, but I couldn't hear either one. I wouldn't expect his 0.5W FRS radio to go 3 miles, but I was hoping his UV-5R would. I tried with my FRS radio too, but of course he couldn't hear me on either of his radios.

We're going to reverse the test tomorrow with me at Point A and him at Point B to see if the issue follows the radio or the location. We each had our old FRS radios tuned to the same channel as a sanity check and he could hear me clearly on his Cobra FRS, but I could not hear him on either of my radios. We also tried several different channels including wide band on the upper GMRS frequencies just in case, but no improvement. I thought screwing on an antenna was pretty straightforward. Any special tricks other than twisting it in until it's snug?

Well I went with the Nagoya NA-771R retractable antenna to make it easier to pack. I'm definitely getting clearer signals with less noise, and I'm picking up more chatter on other channels so I assume range is better too. I tried to set up a range test today and I got some puzzling results, so I was hoping someone here could help me make sense of what I'm seeing. Point A and Point B are 2.95 miles apart according to Google Maps at similar elevations (+/- 50ft) with the terrain between them never exceeding either elevation. So it's not quite mountain top to mountain top but no more than a handful of buildings and/or trees obstructing line of sight. My friend was at Point A with his UV-5R (he also got a NA-771R antenna) and I was at Point B with my GMRS-V1 + NA-771R. Both radios were set to high power (4W for UV-5R and 5W for GMRS-V1). When I transmitted from Point B he could hear me quite well, but when he transmitted from Point A I couldn't hear him at all. I tried moving around laterally and found one spot where I could barely get a choppy/noisy signal from him, but otherwise nothing. No matter where I was he could hear me loud and clear. The only difference I can see is the 1W difference in transmit power, but I was under the impression that output power above 2.5W wouldn't make much of a difference. Is that 1W of transmit power making the difference between hearing me loud and clear and barely hearing him if at all?

I read about Baofeng quality and common complaints, but since I'm coming from a 20-year old FRS radio I think I'll be fine with it. I consider this an entry level radio to see if GMRS is a good fit, then I can upgrade later if it works out. Got the GMRS-V1 yesterday and it works out of the box with my FRS radios. Looks like the Low power setting transmits at 2W and High at 5W, so I'll have to try the range next time I'm out. I actually like the look and feel of the UV-5R better than the GMRS-V1; I can see why they're popular for a $20 radio. I borrowed a programming cable from my friend and set my UV-5R to disable Tx on all bands, so it's essentially a VHF/UHF scanner now. I guess I can use it to test transmit range from my GMRS-V1. Speaking of range, I went looking at high-gain antennas and I see the Nagoya NA-771 comes in two versions, the regular 771 and a 771R (retractable). I like the idea of a retractable antenna and it looks like performance is the same as the regular version, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on retractable/rigid antennas vs flexible ones. Any pros/cons I should be aware of before choosing one or the other?

I ordered a BTECH GMRS-V1 since that seems to fit my requirements without breaking the bank. I've read more about BTECH et al. and it seems like the quality can be hit or miss, but honestly as long as I can talk to my group at the same or greater range that's probably enough for me. If the audio quality is poor Amazon has a great return policy . Thanks for the advice everyone!