WRFP399

As an update we have been heavily overcast here for about 2 weeks. So much so it appears the panels are making little power.  I have connected into myGMRS nets on Sundays, a Wed Tech Net and the Sat Family Fun Net with Santa. Each was about 2 to 4 hours of TX time each. On Sunday, 12-19-21, at the start of the net the repeater went off-line. I assume the battery protection circuit kicked in. This is the first time the repeater went down this year.
Yesterday, 12-20-21, it was heavily snowing all day, so little to no charge. Today, 12-21-21 (Winter Solstice) we have direct sun. The sun isn't reaching the panels until around 11:00AM and it will be gone by 4:00PM. The sun is also at a very low angle. This week it seems like I have a chance for 2 mostly sunny days and a few partly cloudy ones. Guess we will see if that is enough to bring the battery back up to 12.6 volts from 11.2 and turn the repeater back on.

On the plus side we are going to be gaining daylight at a rate of about 4 minutes a day from here on. By February we will be back to around 8 hours of sunlight. 

I attached a photo I took around 11:15AM today of the repeater site. The ridge line you see runs east/west so the face of the ridge is nearly due south. The shadow you see is caused by the opposing mountain blocking the sun. The sun is able to get the site around 11:00AM due to a valley that runs north/south on the east side of the mountain. As the sun continues to rise it is able to stay over the top of the mountain. It kind of follows the contour the mountain if you will. I attached a time-lapse image I stole illustrating the suns arc during winter for reference.

For those asking why I didn't put it up higher, it is b/c it's too hard to get to (the grade is steeper than it looks) and the summit has no good place for it. No poles to place it on to keep the panels above the snow line and it would be too easy for hikers to tamper with it.  This spring I am going to relocate it further west down the ridge line several miles. This will increase it's RF footprint into populated area and pull it further from hikers.

Anyway, this has been a fun project for me.

I have the two panels running in parallel...hopefully that helps some with partial shading when it happens. So far the manufacturer says at -10 degrees C I should be around 80% capacity at a .05C discharge. Look a few posts above for more info on that.
 
We shall see if it powers back up this week.
 
If I wasn't in Alaska and was further south I am confident this system would be running flawlessly with just the 50 watt panel.

Sounds like a solar recharged RT97 w/ a simple N9TAX rollup antenna might work for you. Simple, small, portable, and little to no environment impact.

If you want a complete setup that can be carried in a large backpack:

A 30 watt solar panel can fit in a large backpack. A 30 watt panel and a 14 amp hour SLA battery seems to work well here in Alaska during the Spring/Summer/Fall Season but can't keep up during the cold winters with little sun. If you are not in an area that suffered from greatly reduced solar in the winter it would be a solid place to start.

Use some alum angle riveted to the back to mount the RT97 and a small solar controller directly to the back of the panel. You can attach the panel directly to a tree, place the SLA battery at the base, and hang the N9TAX in the tree itself.   I have posts in this forum about my setup and it might stir some ideas for you.

Is this some 100% Duty Cycle Commercial Grade Setup? Nope. But I get 20-30 miles out of mine to 5 watt handhelds and it works for us.
 

 

Yes. I use the 450-512 splits as I don't have use for HAM but it sounds like the OP wants to cross over the HAM...which ideally would also be 2 meters but I personally don't know any radios that can do that besides CCRs. 
 
I 'solved' that issue for me by just buying a VHF VX-231 for the few 2 meter channels I wanted to listen to....as well as MURS.

Another option is Vertex. Used VX-231 radios can be found for 30-40 dollars on eBay and they have excellent performance for GMRS use. The programming software can be found pretty easy and the USB cables on eBay work.
 
If you decide to go this route I can help you select the right radio, cable and software. PM me if needed.

I have one of these operating up on a remote mountain side here in Alaska. It uses a SLA battery that is solar re-charged. I get a range of around 25 miles or so when coupled with handhelds such as Vertex VX-231s and/or Motorola PR400s. It probably can go further but I run into the inlet and can't test it further.
 
Out at 25 miles it starts to get a bit noisy in the signal but the message is readable. I attached a photo of looking in out from where it's located at.

This won't be a wildly popular thought but if you teach your g/f how to use a GMRS radio and you guys follow the same standards a family member would no one is going to know the difference and no one is going to ask you to pony up a marriage certificate.
 
To me, and this is just my opinion, this question is along the lines of Part 90 vs Part 95 gear. It seems the FCC just wants the spirit of the law followed. Do that and you will be left alone.
 
 

This won't be a wildly popular thought but if you teach your g/f how to use a GMRS radio and you guys follow the same standards a family member would no one is going to know the difference and no one is going to ask you to pony up a marriage certificate.
 
To me, and this is just my opinion, this question is along the lines of Part 90 vs Part 95 gear. It seems the FCC just wants the spirit of the law followed. Do that and you will be left alone.
 
 

This won't be a wildly popular thought but if you teach your g/f how to use a GMRS radio and you guys follow the same standards a family member would no one is going to know the difference and no one is going to ask you to pony up a marriage certificate.
 
To me, and this is just my opinion, this question is along the lines of Part 90 vs Part 95 gear. It seems the FCC just wants the spirit of the law followed. Do that and you will be left alone.
 
 

So I know I am reviving an old threat but I found what appears to be a work around for the Wide Band Recovery Tool and at least my EVX-534.

I purchased a used EVX-534 on eBay for $40.  When it came it was locked to narrow band. I am using the export version of CE151 which would allow wideband if the radio wasn't locked to it. I tried using the Wide Band Recovery Tool but I have simple USB programming cables and not the Vertex FIF-12. The Recovery Tool did not like the cables I had.

On the off chance I tried to upload the stock EVX-534 programming files that come with CE151. I am now being allowed to program wideband as needed. No FIF or Recovery Tool Needed. I attached a screen shot showing the two test channels I put in.

So I know I am reviving an old threat but I found what appears to be a work around for the Wide Band Recovery Tool and at least my EVX-534.

I purchased a used EVX-534 on eBay for $40.  When it came it was locked to narrow band. I am using the export version of CE151 which would allow wideband if the radio wasn't locked to it. I tried using the Wide Band Recovery Tool but I have simple USB programming cables and not the Vertex FIF-12. The Recovery Tool did not like the cables I had.

On the off chance I tried to upload the stock EVX-534 programming files that come with CE151. I am now being allowed to program wideband as needed. No FIF or Recovery Tool Needed. I attached a screen shot showing the two test channels I put in.

I have two. Both are N9TAX. One I modified by removing the RG58 and replacing it with RG400. It it attached to my repeater (RT97). The antenna has been in a tree for about 2 years now. It does what I need. Once I get the repeater to a more permanent position I will switch out to a more traditional antenna. 
The second is again an N9TAX SlimJim tuned for GMRS. 16 feet of RG58. I use it when backpacking once we set up camp. It definitely helps extend the range. This summer I used it to get back into my GMRS repeater which was behind some heavy obstructions (think mountain). Its hard to see, but in the photo its in the tree to the right of the tent. The antenna itself is up near the top third of the photo. It was attached to a 5 watt Vertex VX-231. There was no cell service back here. This was our only means of reaching back. The repeater was about 15 miles away behind the mountain on the right side of the 2nd photo. I am sure being in the valley helped "tunnel" the signal through and/or we got some refraction over the top edges.

 

This will be for an EXV-534. I had an eBay seller drop me an offer at $40 so I figured that is a good price...snagged it up. I will try to use my USB cable that has worked for my VX231 and VX261s...if that doesn't work I guess I will be looking into a FIF

Nevermind. After hours of looking I found it. I also downloaded the most current versions of the programming software for most of Vertex's HT and mobile radios. I downloaded the export version which allows programming of wideband for GMRS.
 
If anyone needs one let me know.

Good point on every city thinking they are the hub and prime target. Reminded me of the target list released by the Russian Federation a year or so ago, where a VLF radio station at Jim Creek MWR Station in Washington State was listed as target number one, for being a communications hub for ballistic missile submarines. From my own work in the nuclear triad, that is somewhat realistic, but less likely than the threat of both apathy and entropy.
Apathy has meant that many people do not prepare for anything, thinking the "government" will save them from disaster. In the 2016 Cascadia Rising exercise in Washington State, the Emergency Management mantra was changed from "Three Days, Three Ways" to "Two Weeks Ready" when it was realized how a large earthquake/tsunami could cripple the region. For others it is entropy, the collapse of infrastructure, morals,the economy, whatever. From my own practical experience in war and emergency management, most people would do well to have their: phones, radios, and medical alert devices and hardware charged, programmed and ready, as heart disease and medical emergencies are still the most realistic threat.

This isn't a jab at you it's just something I noticed in general. Every city in the US has some kind of claim to fame about how they are such a valuable target to attack. Heck, Anchorage thinks it's some major strategic target b/c the airport serves as a layover for a large percentage of air cargo coming from Asia.

IMO the biggest threats which could threaten society as a whole in order of likeliness would be natural disaster, economic disaster, and societal unrest. Nuclear and dirty bombs are unlikely from a sovereign state but there is the off chance of terrorists. I don't have any hard and fast fact to back this but terrorists always seems to go for the target that will give the largest hit to moral of a country. These cities tend to be symbolic, think NYC, LA etc.
"Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport is a major cargo hub.[28] In 2020, it ranked as the United States' third-busiest airport and the world's fourth-busiest airport by cargo traffic. A reason is that cargo aircraft between China or Japan and the US prefer to have less fuel and more cargo and refuel on the way.[29]
FedEx Express and UPS Airlines operate major hubs at Anchorage International for cargo heading to and from the Far East.[24] NWA Cargo used to operate a major hub at the airport until December 28, 2009 when it closed all operations for Northwest Cargo at all airports. FedEx Express is the airport's largest cargo facility and can handle as many as 13,400 packages per hour, employing more than 1,200 people and providing a full customs clearance system. United Parcel Service's hub handles about 5,000 parcels per hour. Both companies forecast a large growth in traffic over the next several years as trade with China and other Far East countries increases and plan to expand their Anchorage facilities comparatively.[citation needed] The United States Postal Service also operates a large sectional center facility (SCF) for the 995xx ZIP Codes. It processes mail and parcels headed to and from all Alaska cities.
The United States Department of Transportation allows Anchorage and other Alaskan airports to be used as a transfer point for cargo between different aircraft of the same foreign air carrier without applying for special permission, a privilege not available at airports on the US mainland." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stevens_Anchorage_International_Airport
 
 

It depends on your climate and how much use it will see. 

The RT97 draws about 2 amps on high power and .09 amps when in stand-by.

I am running an RT97 on solar power here in Alaska. During the summer when we have lots of sun a 9 amp hour battery and 30 watt panel do just fine. Everytime I checked on it the battery was at 100% capacity. During the winter we have a few issues that make it more difficult. During winter solstice there is only around 4 hours of sunlight.  We also have cold weather to deal with. Drop a lead acid battery to around 0 degrees F and you are down to around 80% of its capacity. Last winter I had it running on a 30 watt panel and a 14 amp hour battery. It wasn't enough. By November the battery was already being run down to the cut off voltage of 11.2 volts. 75% of last November the repeater was down. We didn't have enough snow to prevent me from getting to the site so I was able to get to it and swap it battery out for a 9 amp hour one I had. Yes it is smaller but I wanted to save the larger, more expensive, battery from damage. It lasted for about a week before going down again. I would come back up after a week or two for a few days and then go down again. From there it only got worse. The solar controller shut down the repeater for the majority of winter. Low voltage and cold temperatures resulted in a frozen battery sometime between December and February. Once frozen the voltage dropped to near zero and the solar controller shut down completely. My repeater site is inaccessible once winter sets in due to snow level and steep grades.

This spring I changed a few things. Keep in mind all my components need to be hiked up to about 2400 feet by hand. The components had to fit in or attach to a backpack or two.

POWER GENERATION:
This spring I added a 50 watt panel. This brought up the solar power to 80 watts total. The 80 watts of panels should generate enough solar energy on a 4 hour cloudy day to replace the 2.2-ish amps that the RT97 uses while in stand-by for 24 hours. I based this on monitoring the output of the panels on an overcast day this summer. I waited until the sun's elevation (as informed by a smartphone app) matched that it in the winter and saw the battery being charged at a rate of about 800 milliamps.  4 hours at 800 is 3.2 amps.  That is 1 extra amp...in theory. 
POWER STORAGE:
I upgraded to a 35 amp hour battery and put it underground by over a foot. Just being a foot underground shields the battery from the extreme highs and lows. At that depth theory says it should be at the avg daily temperature. If this setup works through the winter I am relocating the repeater to an even more remote location and will try to get the battery further down. Being underground also has the benefit of keeping the battery cool in the summer, which in theory, should prolong it's life. This 35 amp hour battery chould, in theory, keep the repeater running in stand-by mode for about 13 days or it could support about 14 hours of non-stop transmission in the winter with ZERO solar input. This factors in a 20% reduction in capacity due to cold temperatures.

With these two upgrades the battery should really never be run low unless we have significant activity on the repeater without any days of decent solar generation. The larger battery helps store "extra" power from the sunny days and/or the additional hours of overcast days before/after winter solstice. This keeps the battery at a higher level of charge. Being kept at high charger levels and buried underground protect it through the colds snaps. 

Since I implemented the changes the repeater has been running 24/7. The past several weeks have been COLD here. The avg daily temperature as been between -5 and 5 degrees fahrenheit. Lows have been down below -20 degrees. For the past two weeks I have connected into the myGMRS national net for about 4 hours on Sundays. This has resulted in about 3 to 4 hours worth of transmission time each Sunday on the repeater as people talk across the nation. So far the battery appears to be doing fine as the repeater has not gone down. Hours of sunlight will continue to decrease through December at which point it will start picking up again. The skies will also start to be clear of clouds more often as we push past mid winter. 

So for me, it looks like 80 watts of solar power and a 35 amp hour battery are needed but again that is due to cold winter conditions with low sun levels. I don't know where you are but if you are in the lower 48 I would say the system could be more like my first attempt, 30 watts solar and a 9 amp hour battery and I would bet a 50 watt solar and 14 amp hour battery would give some extra head room.

I have a few other posts up detailing my experiences with the RT97. If you register you can browse them.

Solar Panel:  
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocrystalline-Efficiency-Charging-Applications/dp/B07GTH79JP/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2OBPM6JH5RIF2&keywords=50%2Bwatt%2Bsolar%2Bpanel%2Brenogy&qid=1637621917&sprefix=50%2Bwatts%2Bsolar%2Bpanel%2Breno%2Caps%2C318&sr=8-4&th=1

Solar Controller:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Q79TC2L?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-ypp-ro-model_ypp_ro_model_k0_1_10&crid=LSOHLRTW8QW2&sprefix=10+amp+sol
 
Battery:
https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/slaa12=35c


Battery-S-12330.pdf

Another option,
 
A pair of used Vertex VX-231 radios can be had for 20-40 dollars each on eBay. Get a programming cable for about 20 bucks. Download the programming software for free (CE99).
 
Now you have part 90 radios that blow the doors off CCRs.

Another option,
 
A pair of used Vertex VX-231 radios can be had for 20-40 dollars each on eBay. Get a programming cable for about 20 bucks. Download the programming software for free (CE99).
 
Now you have part 90 radios that blow the doors off CCRs.

Another option,
 
A pair of used Vertex VX-231 radios can be had for 20-40 dollars each on eBay. Get a programming cable for about 20 bucks. Download the programming software for free (CE99).
 
Now you have part 90 radios that blow the doors off CCRs.

This is the exact setup I am running here in AK. Retevis RT97 somewhere between 2200 and 2600 feet up. Mounted the back of a 50 watt solar panel. The battery is a 35 amp/hour SLA which I have stored about 18" under ground to try and protect it from the extreme cold snaps we get. During the summer I can easily run a much smaller battery. A 9 amp hour battery and 30 watt panel was more than sufficient during our summer. The larger battery and panel is needed for cold temps and low sunlight in the winter here. There is a small solar controller mounted to the rear of the panel as well. I have an N9TAX single band GMRS antenna. The repeater can be heard out at 20-25 miles and I can get back into it at that distance with 5 watts. 1 watt under ideal circumstances.  The repeater does suffer from desence a bit as I can always hear it further than I can get into it with an HT. If I drop it to low power it performs almost identically to my HTs (VX-231s and PR400s) in that if I can hear it, I can get back into it with about the same quality.
 

RT97 “Duty Cycle”
 
I had a replacement RT97 come in today as a replacement for one that failed. The prior failed as it would not longer talk to a computer for programming. The TX/RX worked fine. I decided to test this new units “duty cycle” and heat displacement abilities.
 
The first thing I did was open it up and see what it has internally to bridge the transmitter to the aluminum outer housing. The bottom of the RX/TX unit has large fins cast into its aluminum body. It appears to be bedded in thermal paste to make a conductive path the aluminum outer housing.
 
I took a food thermometer and put it into the thermal paste. The unit was at 70 degrees.
 
The “Test”:
 
Stage One: I had it transmitting on high power. The transmission was broken up into three 1 minute sections with 10 seconds between each followed by a whole 2 minutes of TX. The transmitter rose from 70 degrees to 82 degrees. Hardly warm to the touch. (12 degree rise for 5 min Total TX w/ 40 seconds rest)  
Stage Two: I gave it about 2 minutes of rest and hit it with two more sessions of 2 minutes transmissions, separated by 20 seconds. It had fallen to just below 80 prior to and rose to 89 after.(9 degree rise for 4 min Total TX, w/ 2 min 20 seconds rest)  
Stage Three: I finally let it sit for 1 minute and did five more sessions of 2 minutes transmissions, separated by 20 seconds. The temp started at 88 and rose to 102 (14 degree rise for 10 Min Total TX w/ 2 min 20 seconds rest)  
End total of 19 min of TX w/ 3 min 20 seconds of rest. The temp rose from 70 degrees to 102 degrees.
 
What I find interesting is that after the radio “warmed up” it took significantly more time to heat up further. I expected the 10 min spent TX'ing in Stage 3 to raise it more than it did. At the end after only about 60 seconds of rest it already had dropped to 94 degrees from a high of 102. I did not repeat this test on low power but I can only assume it would take longer to heat up.
 
Being as my use with these repeaters are outdoors here in Alaska it doesn’t appear that heat will be an issue for me. During the winter our avg daily temp is around 20 degrees and we only get to an avg daily temp of 60-65 in the summer. This leaves a lot of head room. The cooler ambient temperatures should further increase the rate of heat dissipation as my home was 70 degrees to start with. Anyone see any flaws with my logic?

GMRS625 is running. The 700 doesn't seem to ever be up. I contacted the owner months back and was told they were updating it.
 
Been trying to get the 625 on the myGMRS net but I am either doing something very wrong or the net isn't designed to do it the way I am trying.
 
You can get into the 625 from the Point Mackenzie Area. I got in well enough with a 5 watt HT and a mag mount 1/4 wave antenna. Don't know if that helps you.

Lets keeps this in perspective. Midland's radios are marketed towards your basic user who wants to talk between their kids while at a park and/or for off roaders who want to talk between machines. The people on this board are "more advanced" users of GMRS in general w/ things like repeaters and linked nets. Midland isn't marketed at us.

I just wanted to put this out there. I have had at least one RT97 working here in Alaska for about a year and half now. It's outdoors and exposed to the weather on a 2000 foot ridge line. (think -30 degrees F lows during cold snaps and high winds in the 50-70mph range during wind storms). I am sure some of you have seen the posts.

I had one "break" on me. It still worked fine as far as RX and TX but one day I couldn't get it to communicate with a computer for updated programming anymore. I sent Retevis a message, they attempted to work through the issue with me for a few emails and then requested I send it back. Yes, their english was not exactly 'correct' but it was fluent enough for easy communication.

Yes I paid my own shipping to get it back to China, which cost me 70 bucks, but it got there. They had it for about a month and just sent me another one back. All in all they stood by their product. They don't just ghost you after purchase.