quarterwave
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Posts posted by quarterwave
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If you are running a NMO mount antenna, a $5 1/4 wave rod and nut make an invaluable troubleshooting tool that lasts a lifetime.
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When you are newer to the tech, I recommend just programming transmit (enc) only and leave your receive (dec) as carrier squelch (no codes or tones at all) until you learn more. You will hear everyone on that frequency, including the repeater you want to hear, but if there is not much other traffic, should be no big deal.
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A transmission on a frequency can be heard by a radio receiving on the same frequency if it is within range. Squelch tones/codes do not change that, they only filter out anything that does not match your code. If running no code/tone on receive, you hear it all. You can use different in and out tones/codes on a repeater, but it's not necessary, it is usually only done to to mask the input by using a different output. The radio won't know as long as it's programmed properly, but its not ideal for easy operation. Usually a repeater trying to stay inaccessible but only to a private group does this.
Simplex - run same codes all around, or none at all if you want to hear everyone (else).
Private is not that. The term was used with the intention of reducing audio traffic on a groups radios when said group shared a frequency or repeater with others....back when there may not have been so many to share (part 90). Don't confuse that with scrambling or encryption.
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A quarter wave antenna pattern looks much like a round ball. A gain antenna pattern takes more the shape of a football, or even an exaggerated football (ellipse).
I've never gone wrong performance wise with a 1/4 wave... in UHF, VHF, 800...
Nothing against the gainers, they have their place.
Just an observation, but usually I see HAM radio (I am a HAM too) using gain antennae because we try to do the most with the least power. Commercial and GMRS largely used fixed power (even though there are adjustable power GMRS radios now) and many times have more power than they really need, so any marginal effect of a higher gain antenna is not seen or even known. That's an opinion, don't anyone get sideways.
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44 minutes ago, Sshannon said:
I would argue that it doesn’t allow another person to quickly respond. In fact anybody who has “busy channel lockout” set cannot transmit during that very long six seconds.
It does have value in preventing the repeater from quickly cycling between transmit and receive for a signal that’s going in and out.
As long as that person is using same PL. BCL prevents transmission when a different PL is being received than the one you are transmitting (Different group on a repeater). Used alot on old community repeaters.
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19 hours ago, WRQL370 said:
Negative, What you are referring to is called the hang time. That is the amount of time the transmit carrier is present after the station stops receiving an input signal. This is done to keep the transmitter from constantly keying and un-keying from a loss of marginal received signal
There are options in higher grade repeaters to setup timing for reverse burst, or to stop the PL before the carrier drops to eliminate "squelch tail".I run a MTR2000 with a Zetron.
There is hang time, which is the time after proper carrier AND PL is lost, that the transmitter remains on air. It is used to keep the carrier up so another person can respond without any re-keying time. I set mine to 6 seconds. In my area alot of Ham repeaters have a long hang time. It's ok to not use it at all, but with a 100% duty cycle repeater, I'd rather have it.
Then...there is tone in tail. Your carrier in hang time can transmit the PL or not. You can drop the PL and the carrier will stay up for the duration, but receiving radios (programmed with the output tone) will close their squelch.
I also use the Zetron input carrier beep, which is a medium "beep" when a carrier drops. This helps people tell if a unit is on the fringe of coverage and their actual signal is weak or just their audio. It helps the non radio people learn repeater-ese.
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That was always my understanding as well, as far as radio was concerned.
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Not to play Bill Clinton's lawyer here, I don't have a dog in this but...
What is the definition of "network". A telco's phone and DSL system could be called a network. But, what is a cable system, or fiber system, is that considered a "network". I guess being from telecom, I consider a system with multiple destinations or addresses a network, but something like a fiber, or even a a VPN over the internet is more like a point to point because it is only accessible by the party (or device) on either end (dedicated). Same with a T1.
My thought after reading this stuff for years was that the rules were to keep radio audio off of PSTN lines. Fiber and cable are not that.
Just a thought.
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Going back to one of my old experiences when I worked for Motorola years ago...
A small city police department had a failure of their old GE repeater they had been nursing along for many years, so they needed a new one. Budgets were tight, but they insisted on a 100 watt unit. Now, the repeater was naturally on a hill, on a water tank, and was at the highest point in the city, and no more than a mile from the city limits in any direction. They wanted 100 watts. VHF, carrier squelch mind you...and 100 watts.
While they waited for a new repeater, we loaned them a Desktrac (not what you need for public safety, but it'll work in a pinch).
Once on the air, the asst chief said, man, that sounds good. And the range is great, can we just keep that one? Is it 100 watts?
Sure, it's 100 watts.
It was in fact 25 watts..... no one could tell. They later got a new repeater, but we still didn't set it up for 100 watts.
Point is, don't get hung up on wattage, use what works for the situation you need it in.
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"ME THINK, WHY WASTE TIME SAY LOT WORD, WHEN FEW WORD DO TRICK."
- Kevin Malone
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Just set the circle where it actually works, I had to do mine that way.
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It's not a real question if you intend to run a real, reliable repeater. Some loss is part of the game. Good equipment reduces that issue.
I setup a split repeater once, antennae were separated by 150' horizonally, and about 30 feet vertically. Just a pain in the ass to maintain, and still needed a can on the receive side.
You don't have to buy a $10k repeater setup, but going cheap will result in cheap operation.
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In chirp, just use the T-DCS until you get more familiar. That way, you won't have any mixed tone issues with receive and you'll just hear anything on that channel.
Also, keep in mind, some repeaters may not give you any indication you hit it, it you are just kerchunking. If they have the hang timer at 0, by the time your radio switches back to receive, the TX has dropped anyway. If you have another receiver near, maybe with a remote or outdoor antenna, you can hear it. Else, you'll need to make contact with someone to see if your in.
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I saw a post on FB about the release of the antennae. I think they are good looking pieces, as long as they work well. I had commented on said post, and a local know-it-all who probably got his license 3 weeks ago and discovered what radio was 4 weeks ago.... proceeded to tell me off as if I was wrong and didn't know anything.
That's fine, I deleted my comment, so he's talking to his self. I don't argue with idiots on FB.
The summary is I felt the product was nice, but Midland is good at marketing. You'll buy a $259 antenna because they tell you it's good. If you need a rugged antenna for Jeepin', that's cool I get it, I hope it works good for you. I know the going gets rough out there, but my only point was that in all my years of experience, a 1/4 wave has outworked everything in the long run. That doesn't mean I'm telling anyone they have to use it, just that tried and true is just that.
I have worked in radio and telecom for 30+ years, I know what I know. I don't push that on anyone, but I have helped many people with radio issues and I don't do it to be heard, only to help. When I first got a GMRS license nearly 30 years ago, we had to find a commercial radio to recrystal if we wanted to use GMRS. Now there is some great product out there, and I do like the Midland stuff too.
- gortex2 and SteveC7010
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"Public Service announcement: your "50 watts" won't perform any better than a properly configured 10 watt repeater when you are talking back in with 5 watt portables. Especially if you're talking through a cheap compact duplexer that's probably rated at 65 or 70 dB isolation (and that's when it's properly tuned)."
That's like the number 1 thing I try to get people to understand when they get into radio. Power out of the repeater has nothing to do with talk in range (if desense is out of the picture).
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Isn't it interesting when people have differing opinions? :)
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Actually WRTZ750, I was referring to where I had it for sale online elsewhere last year and the "I want a real repeater" buyers all thought that a repeater was a couple of cheap mobiles tied together. That works when you need it, but you can't get 100% commercial duty cycle out of a mobile.
The one I have for sale originally sold for $10k without a duplexer.
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Good point. I put my first one on air in 1994, about a year after I got my license (if my brain serves me correct). That was before mygmrs.com, then your only resource was PRSG which was a dial up BBS. Heck, even most "Radio" people then weren't very aware of what GMRS was.
From then until last Spring, my repeater (in it's 3rd iteration) was private. Used it on the farm a little, casually some, but it was private. In the beginning there weren't GMRS radios, if someone could figure out how to crystal, or program an early one for it, that was the only way to use it. I used DPL on mine, that in itself was a brick wall to most unless you had REAL, GOOD radios. I did.
I opened my repeater to the public last Spring, 141.3Hz in and out, and since then, don't get much if any traffic. I don't personally use it with family or friends anymore, but I will mark on air sometimes while out and about in case anyone is out there. A couple of locals are using it a little, but that's about it. I'm to the point that I'd rather just sell it and let someone have their turn. I have worked in Telecom and Radio for over 30 years, I'm happy to help others, but I guess I don't feel it's of importance for ME to have my own repeater any more. There was a time when I was probably 1 of maybe 3 guys in my STATE to have one. None very close to me now, but lots more all over the State. Nice to see it grow.
I'm a HAM, so I can talk to others in the hobby anytime I want.
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I've had a repeater up for years...no one uses it. It's for sale BTW, if you need a Motorola MTR 2000 with a Zetron panel, let me know. It's doing nothing but drawing electric.
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And while we are on the subject of Repeaters.... Why do people keep listing repeaters that do not exist? Is there some thrill? Aren't they sad or embarrassed when they have to explain it never existed? I don't get it.
I've had a private repeater for years, people asked to use it right up until this Spring, when I made it public with new PL's and a refreshed listing. Now...summer activity time...not a peep. People still ask, even request permission even though they don't need it per the listing. Not a peep.
If anyone is interested in a mint MTR2000, cabinet and Zetron panel.... she's probably going to be for sale soon. I'll throw in a supposedly good ASP805 & Clamps too (not mounted, currently stored in barn).
- gortex2 and generalpain
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GMRS antena for mobile radio?
in Technical Discussion
Posted
I've never went wrong with a NMO mounted 1/4 wave. Fixed alot of "radio problems" by simply screwing one on.