WRQW589

You may find that you have very good communications with GMRS on 20 acres over simplex, no repeater. In that case you can put your 2k into the jeep instead. At least test things out as is. See how it goes.

I have two MXT-275 Midland radios, and two GTX-1000 radios. They work great, and are easy to use. They lack some things that I might find useful; the ability to configure more than one memory location per frequency (ie, the ability to use more than one repeater that operates on the same frequency, for example)... and I don't think the handhelds are repeater capable in the first place. But for what I use them for primarily, that's fine. I tend to set all my radios to use the same DSC/PL tone on channel 18, and the same one on channel 6. Then I can tell others "go to channel 6" and I know we'll be talking lower-power, or "go to 18" and we'll be talking at a higher power setting. The antennas are pretty good. I have the 3db "ghost" antenna that I use most of the time, and the higher gain 6db antenna that I mount on the RV or use at home. My other radios are Baofengs; two UV-5G radios, and I'll probably get a UV-5G Plus sooner or later. But I don't "need" what they have to offer, I just enjoy the flexibility they offer for tinkering. When it comes to actually using the radios, I'm perfectly happy with the Midlands. Clarifying my use cases: Talking between the RV and family / friends out hiking, keeping our ski party together (sometimes we end up at the base of different lifts), taking trips with more than one vehicle, getting help from my son as I back the tow vehicle (no rear facing camera) up to the trailer, keeping together when we're at crowded, spread out destinations (theme park, shopping districts, etc), kayaking, sailing (ship-to-shore chatter, since VHF Marine Radio is rather particular/stodgy about ship-to-shore communications). I do listen in on repeaters but don't make much use of them; there's just not much need. Either we're within range of each other, or we're out somewhere remote where there aren't any repeaters to help, anyway.

There aren't too many things to get right, for it to work. Check the following: Are you too close to the receiving radio? This may be a little counterintuitive. But imagine you have radio A in the bedroom, radio B ten feet away in the same room. Radio A reaches out to the repeater 2 miles away. What will radio B hear? ....nothing, because radio A is desensitizing the receiver in B by virtue of their close proximity. It's like if you are trying to talk to your friend while standing a few feet away from a jet engine. Your friend won't be able to make out what you're saying because of how loud the jet is, even though voice, and jet engine noise may not even be occupying the same frequency ranges in the sound spectrum. The solution is for radio B to be a block away; you'll have to enlist the help of a friend. Are you using the correct squelch tone (PL, or DSC) to open the repeater? Are you (on both radios) set up with the proper squelch tone to hear the repeater? Sometimes it's useful to set your radio to not have a receiving tone set. What I mean is allow the receivers to hear all communications; don't use a squelch tone for receiving. Later on you can add that, but in the short-term, turning it off eliminates one possible issue. -- You do still need the correct tone for transmitting, or the repeater won't even open. Is your signal propagating to the repeater? (antenna height, obstacles, and distance play into this) Is radio B within signal propagation range of the repeater? (antenna height, obstacles, and distance play into this) If radio A and B attempt to reach each other over simplex within the proximity of a few hundred yards, does that work? (Here we're trying to find out if the transmitters and receivers are even in good working order) Anyway, go through the checklist and see if any of those bullet points help.

That's a really good point. And it wouldn't take a very high powered one. Just good antenna placement, really. I end up going to this spot a couple of times a year, most years, and I can think of a great place for a repeater there, where it would be (1) line of sight over a great distance and (2) permitted on a temporary basis without any problem. Perhaps next time I'm out there I'll consider it.

My primary vehicle: MXT-275. Handhelds: Two Baofeng UV-5g, and two Midland GXT-1000s. RV: Another MXT-275. I also have the 3db Ghost antenna, and the 6db longer whip. I swap them around to where I need them. If I'm camping with the RV I'll usually put the longer antenna on it, as that seems to make the most sense for base camp. My primary reason for getting into GMRS in the first place was keeping track of my ski party; my two kids, and my brother, as we learned our way around a bunch of different ski resorts, particularly before the kids had phones. It's proven to be useful camping and hiking, too, and for drives that involve two or more vehicles. It's worked out well for those uses.

An experience last summer was useful to my understanding with respect to power. Camping east of Zion, a group took a nine mile hike, and a group stayed at camp. The hikers with handhelds kept in touch with each other quite well. Those who stayed at camp radioed to the hikers to check on them, as a storm whipped up. The hikers, later, mentioned that from a few miles out (varied, mountainous terrain) they could hear the campers calling them from 3-4 miles away. But the campers couldn't hear the hikers responding until they were within two miles. The campers were using an MXT-275 (15w) with an MXTA56 (6db antenna). The hikers were on handhelds that transmitted at a little less than 5w, with rubber duck antennas. So, sure, the extra power helped punch through the terrain a *little*. But without the hikers getting up above the terrain, it didn't matter, as they couldn't get a response back to the campers. If you're contemplating a 50w setup vs 15w, just consider whom you'll be communicating with, and in what kind of terrain. I could have had a 50w radio in camp, and it wouldn't have mattered at all; the hikers would have heard the campers from a very slightly greater range, and the campers still wouldn't have heard the hikers responding.

Probably not. Not that you couldn't benefit from a repeater, but standing up your own repeater probably isn't going to be of much use to you. Consider point A (home), and point B (work). Of those points, A is 17 miles from B. Let's assume that radio at point A, and the radio at point B cannot communicate with each other currently. The first question to ask is can I reasonably get an antenna mounted high enough at location A, and at location B, that the radios at A and B can talk to each other? If the answer is yes, then the solution is exactly that; get two antennas, mount them high enough, get a connector and hook it up to your radio at each location. If the answer is no, then you may benefit from a repeater. Next question: Is there a location (C) where both radio A and radio B are able to communicate with C, if A, B, and C have antennas at reasonable and sufficient heights? If the answer to that is no, then no repeater will help. If the answer is yes, then a repeater will help ONLY IF you actually are allowed to install a repeater at that location C. So, do you own a building/house/antenna mast at some location (C) between A and B where you can install a repeater? If the answer is yes, you're in luck. You will benefit by installing a repeater (if you know how, and have the funds to install one of adequate capability). If the answer is no, you have no reason to spend money on a repeater. If you own the rights to put up an antenna at that location C that both A and B can communicate with, start doing some research, and plan out your installation.

Let's just simplify with code A, B, C. To open the repeater you need to use its code. We'll call that input code "A". To listen to that repeater, you can either listen wide open (no code) or you can set your receiver to match the repeater's output code. "B". It's possible for a repeater operator to set A and B to be the same, which is also fine, though often they're different. It doesn't really matter; makes no practical difference once the sending and receiving radios are configured with the proper codes. There is nowhere to insert a third output code, "C", so that a subset of listeners can grab only messages coming through with the "C" tone. It's just not a feature supported by GMRS. It is possible for a high-end repeater configuration to allow multiple input/output tone combinations, though. But that's not as common, and really is up to the person setting up the repeater to configure.

I agree. I mean I don't understand the numbers behind it. But it's a pretty powerful unintentional signal. However, there was no mistaking that sound, whether it's as I lay in the MRI machine, or as I'm driving off with my GMRS radio picking it up. I don't hear it driving past other hospitals, so there must be something different about the Park City IHC hospital / imaging lab.

I'd get three mobile radios, even a MXT-275 (15W output) would do the trick, though there are more capable models that are more loved here. And get three of Midland's 6db antennas, along with three magnetic mounts, and three 12v power supplies. In each of the three homes, place an antenna in the attic or near a window on a cookie sheet for a ground plane. Bonus points if the window you place yours in is on the side of the house closest to your brother and father's homes, and on an upper floor. If your brother and father are able to go with an attic or roof-top antenna that's great, too. The Midland MXT-A26 antenna is the one to get, along with the necessary cable and a means of mounting it. With those "good enough" radios, and those "pretty good, actually" antennas, you'll hit three miles without too much trouble. The mountain could be a problem, but you're already getting past it with handhelds. All the better with a decent antenna. Come to think of it, you might just order the antennas, mounts, and adapters that fit your handhelds, assuming you're using handhelds that have detachable antennas. My UV-5G can hit a repeater 22 miles away with just its built in antenna, but when I hook it up to the MXT-A26 it sounds great.

Is there an MRI facility anywhere nearby? In March, I went for an MRI. On my way to the facility my GMRS radio was on in the car, because I'm a boring person, like that. When I got within three miles of the facility I started hearing buzzes, blips, and other strangeness on channel 17. I didn't think too much of it, until I was actually IN the MRI machine. Then I realized I was hearing the exact same sounds, the same buzzes, blips, and tones. It wasn't just similar, it was as if the GMRS radio was picking up the MRI machine's noises exactly as they sounded to me. These things are supposed to be shielded, but apparently not well enough in some cases. After my MRI as I was driving home, I heard the exact same tones, until I got about three miles away from the hospital.

Skiing Keeping the family loosely together. Finding a kid who may not have realized we've reached the end of the ski day. Not always necessary - cell service usually works. This is just one more option, and sometimes more convenient with gloves. Camping One in the car, one in the trailer, and then a few handhelds. Coordinate drop-offs and pick-ups at the nearby trailheads, call people to dinner, etc. People can engage in various activities yet still coordinate as needed. My son can guide me as I'm backing up to the trailer. Safety - With an antenna atop the trailer we get decent range; good enough to call to the trailer or vehicle for help from a handheld while out hiking, within reason. Last summer some hikers in our group got into bad weather. It was very reassuring being able to reach each other six miles apart. Group traveling I volunteer with a youth group, and sometimes we are on road trips with more than one or two vehicles. This helps us coordinate lunch and gas stops, even out of cell range. Plus it's safer than texting while driving. Kayaking or Sailing VHF is good for "ship to ship", and calling out to the harbormaster if needed. But for casual conversation and coordination, often "ship to shore", GMRS is great. "Before they had cell phones" Before my kids had cell phones we used GMRS to keep in touch as they moved about our neighborhood playing with friends or visiting the park.

I don't really like waiting through the whole 5-10 minute loop to get a few seconds of what I need, so I don't use NOAA broadcasts often anymore. Before the proliferation of connected devices like phones, it was more necessary. And NOAA reception is usually more reliable than cellular connectivity, so it does have its usefulness. I used to really appreciate having it on my Marine VHF radio in the 90s and early 2000s, for example. It is a good feature to have on a radio that you could take with you on the trail or in the back country. I'd rather not carry a separate receiver just for NOAA. I thought that the Midland handhelds offer SAME. I have a couple of older Motorolas that do, for sure. Cool feature, in principle. I've never actually gotten an alert via SAME that I wasn't aware of, though.

For those who haven't had the pleasure of laying in one of these for 40 minutes, here's the sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIsrOtSSUQY

Yes, that's correct. The MRI sequences produce a loud buzzing sound, in pulses, at various audible frequencies. Very sharp; like if you produced a series of staccato clicks at frequencies that produce tones. A little like listening to sound effects on an old Apple ][ computer but amplified loud enough that you have to wear noise cancelling headphones. The sounds are unmistakable. As I approached, from a distance, I thought I was hearing someone transmitting a digital signal on GMRS, and was thinking "How are they getting away with a continual data transmission?" Then as I laid there in the machine, my first time ever having an MRI, hearing that sound, I realized that's what I had been hearing on GMRS/FRS 17. The facility in question is the Park City Intermountain Healthcare hospital.

I told the staff operating at the time that it caused interference from 3/4ths mile away as I approached. They seemed underwhelmed and dismissed it as "Yep, these are powerful machines." The sound follows the sequence, and is most likely not a cooling compressor, as it pulses and buzzes at various audible frequencies based on the sequence they're running. A compressor wouldn't be so precise; it would be more of a steady drone, not a sharp buzz at various pitches. I suspect it's the rapid cycling of the magnets. But I'm clearly an untrained armchair amateur. Anyway, the results are in and I'm fine.

As I approached a hospital today, GMRS 17 started buzzing loudly, in some pretty distinct sequences. This started about 3/4ths mile from the hospital. I was on my way to an MRI appointment. And when in the machine I quickly realized what I had been hearing on GMRS 17 was the MRI sequences. For anyone who has had one, the sequences are unmistakable and probably unforgettable. I just found it interesting that the interference started so far away from the hospital, and was so reliably attenuated to channel 17. I didn't hear it on 16 or 18. And the sound my radio made was just like what I was hearing inside the apparatus. And it was an intense level of interference. I don't have a question, just reflecting on the situation.

The range between 400-470 has segments dedicated to a variety of uses. One of those uses is HAM 70cm (specifically, 420-450). Other uses include a portion of the GMRS/FRS range, some could be business use, and so on. A useful HAM guide is https://www.arrl.org/band-plan That guide would also cover the 2M amateur band, which falls within the 136-174 range you mentioned (more specifically, 144-148). For a broader coverage of what might be found in the range of 400-470 and 136-174 you can look at https://transition.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf For example, I believe Marine VHF are in the 156-157+ and 161-162+ range. But there are numerous services that will be found in various portions of the ranges you described. MURS is in the 151-154 range.

Could be transmitting location information. A screech sounds like there must be a data modulation upon unkey. If it's transmitting location information, that could be a Garmin.

That's really the why: I don't have a way of identifying what frequency the scanner was on when the recorder captured some output unattended. So it's just easier in my case to focus on one frequency at a time, and let it take however long I feel like leaving it running unattended.

One way that I've found repeaters is by setting a GMRS radio listening on one repeater output frequency for a few days with a VOX activated recorder plugged into it. After a day or so I'll listen to the recording. When I hear morse code, I'll take that segment of the recording and either look at it in an audio application (you can pretty easily spot the dots and dashes in the waveform graph) or upload that segment into a morse code translator. That gives me a call sign, which maps back to an individual, and in some cases can help me find the repeater's listing in mygmrs.com. After a day on one frequency, I'll move on to the next. After a week I'm almost done. With this method I've found three repeaters that I hadn't noticed before. You might try that; record each repeater output channel for awhile and listen for morse code identifying the callsign of repeater owners.

Temporary. So while your transmitting radio is transmitting on the repeater input frequency, the amount of RF energy in close proximity to the receiving radio makes it so it cannot detect the distant repeater's output even though it's on a different frequency. When you stop transmitting, the nearby receiver can hear again, but by that time the repeater is done transmitting too. You may hear a kerchunk, though. When you are vacuuming you can't hear another person 20 feet away talking at normal conversation level either, even though the vacuum may be producing noise at a different frequency than the person speaking. When you shut off the vacuum, you can hear the person speaking again, assuming your hearing was ok to begin with. The issue right now seems to be that we don't really know whether you have a bad radio, or a good radio with incorrect usage. By separating the transmitter and receiver, and having a friend listen on the receiving radio a block away (or recording the receiving radio, as I do), you can eliminate one of the possible issues. Remember, other issues could be squelch tones set wrong, or even a bad transmitter or bad receiver. But we have to strip away all the "what ifs" that we can control so that we're only left with the ones that lead to the conclusion that the radios are, or are not working at all.

Bingo. There is a reason I said you need to be spaced at a greater distance. If you transmit to a repeater, and hope to hear it on a receiving radio, you may not hear anything on the receiving radio at close proximity. WHY? The transmission in close proximity overloads the receiving radio such that it is essentially deaf. Imagine you're at a Rolling Stones concert. You shout to your friend who is also at the concert. He won't hear you. Your radio transmits on some 467 frequency. The repeater 20 miles away receives that and retransmits it on a 462 frequency. The receiving radio, five feet away from the transmitting radio is totally overwhelmed by the transmission that is occuring on 467.xxxx, and cannot hear the transmission coming from 20 miles away on 462.xxxx This phenomenon is called desensing. The output of the radio in close proximity is overloading or desensitizing the receiver in the radio that you hope to hear the distant repeater on. You need to get someone to listen on the receiving radio while you go a block away with the transmitting radio. Or do what I do; set up a VOX digital recorder plugged into the audio output of your receiving radio. Then you can walk a block away, test, and when you get back home you can listen to the results. It is entirely possible that this close proximity is not your issue. But it's such an easy thing to eliminate, and until you do, you don't really know, and we're all just chasing suggestions because diagnostic steps were skipped.

Does your home have a TV aerial that is no longer in use? It probably is grounded. And it may be in the optimal roof-mount location for your GMRS antenna.

Start simple: If in simplex, someone transmits within a half mile of you with no squelch tones set in your radio, do you hear them? If in simplex, someone transmits using a squelch tone, and you have the same programmed into your receiver, do you hear them? If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, do you ever hear anyone hitting the repeater? If in duplex at a repeater output frequency, with no squelch tone set, plug your receiver into a digital recorder (your phone, your computer, or a handheld digital recorder), or set a digital recorder next to its speaker. Use VOX mode. Take another radio 150 feet away and transmit to that repeater using the correct squelch tone to open the repeater. Does your receiver receive it? (do you hear a recording when you get back to listen to your recorder?) Now swap the radios and do the same. Did it still work? ...again, with the transmitting radio set with appropriate squelch tones to open the repeater. Now program squelch tones for the output frequency on the receiving radio and record. Again go 150 feet away with the transmitter. Do you record anything? Notice how at each step we're trying to add only one additional thing that could go wrong. By the time we arrive at the final test, we're fully configured for typical repeater use. If you find it fails at one of those stages, you at least have eliminated the other layers as an issue. It's unlikely though possible that your radio doesn't transmit at all, or doesn't receive at all. I once had a Motorola T355R that, for whatever reason, lost its ability to transmit. So while it's unlikely, it's possible.