Are GMRS repeaters required to identify every 15 minutes?

[WRQC527]

3 hours ago, Lscott said:

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.

Somewhere here in Los Angeles is an Amateur Radio repeater that voice IDs with Dick Van Dyke reading the script. Word is he is or was a ham at some point. Took me by surprise the first time I heard it.

[marcspaz]

5 hours ago, Lscott said:

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.

 

That's pretty cool. Some of the amateur repeaters around here do that, too. It's a great idea if someone has a truly open repeater.

[tweiss3]

Mine is set with no tone on the ID, so you should never hear it, but it is compliant.

[MarkInTampa]

11 hours ago, Lscott said:

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.

One of the repeaters near me also does this - but the ID/Announcement I timed to around 30 seconds. Starts off with a welcome message, followed by a message about their GMRS-Live website and then both are repeated in Spanish. 

[MarkInTampa]

11 hours ago, Lscott said:

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.

One of the repeaters near me also does this - but the ID/Announcement I timed to around 30 seconds. Starts off with a welcome message, followed by a message about their GMRS-Live website and then both are repeated in Spanish. 

Sorry, duplicate post. I can edit it but not delete.

[WRKC935]

Gonna stick something ELSE in here that I don't think has been covered.

If you are on a LINKED repeater system, even if you are a repeater owner on the system, you have to identify.  Reason is that your transmissions are not only coming out of your repeater, but other owners (call signs) repeaters as well. 

That being said, I don't know of any owners on the linked system that don't identify.  So this isn't a ding on anyone I have ever heard or talked to.  But it's worth mentioning for others.

I see this being debated here and in several other threads.  And I frankly don't understand why it's a big deal to identify.  And thing for a second WHO it is that consistently DOESN'T identify.  The clowns that are causing hate and discontent with their beeps and burps and other crap being jerks.  So you are wanting to fall into that group and act that way?  Not sure what your motivations is for that. 

Repeater ID requirements.

What the regulations say has been covered, several times.

What you choose to do on YOUR repeater is up to you if it's stand alone.  If it's linked, it has to ID every 15 minutes.  And you are better off to set the ID for 10 minutes so that if it's held off by traffic, it will still go out in time to be compliant. 

[WRUU850]

16 hours ago, Lscott said:

One of the new GMRS repeaters by me does so using a female voice. It even announces it’s an open repeater and the access tone required.

I think you asked about what repeaters in Metro Detroit I was referring to. Did you listen to what she said and look at my username by any chance?

[WRUU850]

On 3/3/2023 at 1:45 PM, Radioguy7268 said:

 

Do you plan to make your linked repeaters monitor the frequency for activity in their local coverage area before actually linking from a distant user? Do you plan to make the repeaters monitor their input or output frequency prior to putting out it's ID every 15 minutes? Automatic linking and Auto ID are rarely implemented with any consideration that someone else may actually be keyed up and active as a co-channel user on the frequency already.

Just curious, cause the Rule Police don't often talk about those concepts.

 

No.

Curious, do you listen for valid users outside of your simplex range (the point of a repeater after all) before making a call on a repeater? How would we "solve" this seeing as repeaters do not monitor their output frequency? Not use repeaters at all?

Perhaps we shouldn't have designated repeater pairs at all to ensure this doesn't ever happen...

[Lscott]

2 hours ago, WRUU850 said:

I think you asked about what repeaters in Metro Detroit I was referring to. Did you listen to what she said and look at my username by any chance?

I was reading the post as activating a new repeater. I was wondering if another one besides the Detroit and Mt. Clemens machines was going in some place. 
 
I was talking about the above repeaters at our Thursday night coffee group meeting. One of the Hams mentioned your name I believe. He has the cross-band repeater in Melvindale. 
 
Another Ham in our group just put up a repeater on UHF a short while ago. I was suggesting he could get his GMRS license and put it on the band. That would provide coverage out on the west-north-west side of the Detroit area. I believe he has access to emergency power at the site.

[WRUU850]

6 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I was reading the post as activating a new repeater. I was wondering if another one besides the Detroit and Mt. Clemens machines was going in some place. 
 
I was talking about the above repeaters at our Thursday night coffee group meeting. One of the Hams mentioned your name I believe. He has the cross-band repeater in Melvindale. 
 
Another Ham in our group just put up a repeater on UHF a short while ago. I was suggesting he could get his GMRS license and put it on the band. That would provide coverage out on the west-north-west side of the Detroit area. I believe he has access to emergency power at the site.

It's all good. We put up Macomb 675 and Detroit 625. Holly is coming as soon as the weather breaks and I'm working on Pontiac. All Motorola Quantars. You can keep an eye on our progress here http://mi8.systems

[Radioguy7268]

I believe simplex users on a base (462.xxx) output are secondary users who operate at their own peril.  Yes - I monitor prior to pressing the PTT, but I can't be responsible for operations I can't hear. 

I'm a bit more concerned for current repeater co-channel operations in a given area on a limited set of frequencies. Linked repeaters tend to act as though their traffic owns the airwaves. I'm not aware of anyone who is remotely monitoring the sites they link to prior to pushing traffic out to that Linked site.

[Sshannon]

35 minutes ago, Radioguy7268 said:

I believe simplex users on a base (462.xxx) output are secondary users who operate at their own peril.  Yes - I monitor prior to pressing the PTT, but I can't be responsible for operations I can't hear. 

I'm a bit more concerned for current repeater co-channel operations in a given area on a limited set of frequencies. Linked repeaters tend to act as though their traffic owns the airwaves. I'm not aware of anyone who is remotely monitoring the sites they link to prior to pushing traffic out to that Linked site.

Nothing in the regulations establishes priority for simplex users or repeater users.  We're all equal in the eyes of the FCC. 

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, WRUU850 said:

It's all good. We put up Macomb 675 and Detroit 625. Holly is coming as soon as the weather breaks and I'm working on Pontiac. All Motorola Quantars. You can keep an eye on our progress here http://mi8.systems

I see there are some repeaters on P25. You going to do any for NXDN?

[Adamdaj]

I don't want to sound as if I'm harping on what is a small technical violation, but it just doesn't make sense.  At lease from my prospective, no matter whether the repeater is an opened or closed system, all licensees should comply with the FCC's rules and regulations regarding station identification, right?

The majority of the members on the LEARN SYSTEM never IDs themselves. They just come online and of with their unit number, such as units 640 and 822.  Listening to them sometimes give a good laugh, especially unit 822. Unit 822 asked me years ago, if I wanted to join. At the time I wasn't able afford the dues, but I think that I able afford $25.00 a month or $30.00 a month, but I draw the line on taken an exam.

First of all, the FCC didn't require me to take an exam for GMRS. I didn't and understood why it is necessary for Amateur Radio to take examinations.

[gortex2]

This has been discussed on this forum and others. If L.E.A.R.N. doesn't enforce it and the FCC doesn't care it will continue as is. On our SAR GMRS repeater members use their badge number 99% of the time. It happens. When you use one ID on 3 different radios its bound to happen. Good or bad it happens. I know this has been a hot topic for months on this forum but I'd be more worried about the amount of un-licenced folks using GMRS. 

[Lscott]

29 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

I know this has been a hot topic for months on this forum but I'd be more worried about the amount of un-licenced folks using GMRS. 

It'll end up like 11M CB. FCC gave up chasing down everyone failing to ID and just made it a license by rule, i.e. license free, service. Less headache for them.

[WRKC935]

4 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

I don't want to sound as if I'm harping on what is a small technical violation, but it just doesn't make sense.  At lease from my prospective, no matter whether the repeater is an opened or closed system, all licensees should comply with the FCC's rules and regulations regarding station identification, right?

The majority of the members on the LEARN SYSTEM never IDs themselves. They just come online and of with their unit number, such as units 640 and 822.  Listening to them sometimes give a good laugh, especially unit 822. Unit 822 asked me years ago, if I wanted to join. At the time I wasn't able afford the dues, but I think that I able afford $25.00 a month or $30.00 a month, but I draw the line on taken an exam.

First of all, the FCC didn't require me to take an exam for GMRS. I didn't and understood why it is necessary for Amateur Radio to take examinations.

I wonder if they are a hold over from back in the day when there were business licenses and non-family members could operate under the group license.  If that is the case, they wouldn't be required to ID as long as the repeater was IDing for them.  It would all be under one license. 

As far as requiring a test, fee's or any of that.  It depends on how it's structured.  If you are 'paying' to be a member of the group and one of the perks of being a member is repeater access, then it's probably OK.  But I will not go any deeper than that.

To the testing.  You are joining a group.  The group can have any sort of requirement for membership they want to have.  They can also limit the conversation topics to whatever they want on the groups repeater.  So that's a decision that you are gonna need to make for you.

 

[marcspaz]

4 hours ago, Adamdaj said:

First of all, the FCC didn't require me to take an exam for GMRS. I didn't and understood why it is necessary for Amateur Radio to take examinations.

 

Because Amateur Radio isn't just a toy to BS on.  RF related experimentation is a huge part of amateur radio, with a lot of new experimental technology coming out every year.  There needs to be some kind of verification that people are aware of the laws, rules and regulations surrounding the abilities allowed through the licensing and use of amateur radio.

[WRQC527]

4 hours ago, marcspaz said:

RF related experimentation

Which can be up to 1,500 watts worth of experimentation.

[Adamdaj]

19 hours ago, marcspaz said:

 

Because Amateur Radio isn't just a toy to BS on.  RF related experimentation is a huge part of amateur radio, with a lot of new experimental technology coming out every year.  There needs to be some kind of verification that people are aware of the laws, rules and regulations surrounding the abilities allowed through the licensing and use of amateur radio.

Wait a minute, I apologize for my post. Yes, I know, and I agree the reason for an examination to obtain an Amateur Radio license. I'm verry sorry for my previous post, it was stupid, and I should read it prior to posting. 

However, I would never consider Amateur Radio to be Toy. Just like Tools in a garage, Amateur Radio is a Tool and should be consider as such. 

When I was writing this, I probably was thinking about LEARN SYSTEM requiring an examination. I past my Tech and General, unless I'm gone for Extra, I refuse to take an examination. Especially to join an organization that uses GMRS. I have and I understand the FCC rules and regulations. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Adamdaj
Need To Corrections

[marcspaz]

25 minutes ago, Adamdaj said:

Wait a minute, I didn't believe that I am questioning the purpose for an Amateur Radio license, but if it sounded that way, then I'm sorry. As Amateur Radio isn't just a toy. Amateur radio isn't a toy at all. It is valuable tool for not experimenting with technology, but it is tool to be used in every classroom to connect students from all over and keep them engaged and up to date.

 

 

 

 

No need to apologize at all.  I didn't take it that way.  I phrased my response the way I did to give context to why I believe it is necessary to take an exam to participate in Amateur Radio.  I think I could have framed my response with a bit more concise background.

While the people who participate in groups like this forum are either more technically inclined or want to be, most people I know who use GMRS treat it like FRS, MURS and CB radio... its a toy to many of them.  Best case, it enables them to enjoy outdoor activities and its mostly an afterthought.

Sorry for the confusion. 

[Adamdaj]

Thank you!  I should stated in my first post that I agree that an exam is necessary. I put my mouth too many times and most of the time, I don't think things out too thoroughly and I wind up with athlete's Toung. LOL. Now I feel embarrassed, because I am a VE. It's seems strange that a VE would even think about what I posted. So even though you said no need to apologize, I just explain with excusing myself. 73 to you!

[Adamdaj]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:44 PM, WRKC935 said:

I wonder if they are a hold over from back in the day when there were business licenses and non-family members could operate under the group license.  If that is the case, they wouldn't be required to ID as long as the repeater was IDing for them.  It would all be under one license. 

As far as requiring a test, fee's or any of that.  It depends on how it's structured.  If you are 'paying' to be a member of the group and one of the perks of being a member is repeater access, then it's probably OK.  But I will not go any deeper than that.

To the testing.  You are joining a group.  The group can have any sort of requirement for membership they want to have.  They can also limit the conversation topics to whatever they want on the groups repeater.  So that's a decision that you are gonna need to make for you.

 

You know, you're absolutely right. There are more individuals that drive on the streets and highways that haven't figured out what Turn Signals are used for. Some of those same drivers drive through railroad grade crossings while the gates are down, and the train is only seconds away from passing.

 

[BoxCar]

1 minute ago, Adamdaj said:

You know, you're absolutely right. There are more individuals that drive on the streets and highways that haven't figured out what Turn Signals are used for. Some of those same drivers drive through railroad grade crossings while the gates are down, and the train is only seconds away from passing.

 

The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. The ongoing debate is which is the more common.

[Adamdaj]

2 minutes ago, BoxCar said:

The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. The ongoing debate is which is the more common.

You can say that in just about anything in life. I didn't mean deviate from the subject, but I guess you know what I was saying. I'll do my best not to sound like an uneducated individual, because that's not my intentions.

73