GMRS Enforcement

[KAF6045]

Under current FCC regulations -- the only real way to differentiate GMRS from FRS on-the-air (ignoring audio quality between GMRS FM and FRS NFM), is to listen to the repeater INPUTS. Those are the only frequencies that can not be used by FRS radios. If your non-ID people are heard on the repeater inputs, you have verification that they are violating regulations.

Hearing traffic on the repeater outputs could mean you are hearing FRS users, and such users have never had call signs.

I will concur with others that this fiasco began when the FCC permitted FRS/GMRS mixed class bubble-pack sets to be sold, as the need for a GMRS license was buried in the fine print amidst the various safety warnings that most people never read. If they'd had to provide notices -- at least as large print as the claims for distances "GMRS license required to use channels ...." I suspect they'd have lost sales like mad...

 

 

[WROA675]

On 11/9/2013 at 1:27 AM, PastorGary said:

That is a sad commentary on the administration of some first responder or 'assist' groups in passing over individuals who are interested in becoming part of a team but for one reason or another, were not asked to join.

Agree and in hindsight the Spartans may also...

[WQZF786]

On 7/15/2022 at 6:31 PM, Lscott said:

With the rule changes in 2017, effective in 2018, business use of the frequencies is legal so long as they use FRS compliant radios. No call signs are required. Anybody who monitors the simplex channels will likely hear all sorts businesses on the air using them. Just have to deal with it.

But it's NOT Frs they get on GMRS Channels and it's not a business

[WQZF786]

It's not a business and it's not frs they do it on it's regular GMRS and they are not licensed.

[Sshannon]

16 minutes ago, WQZF786 said:

It's not a business and it's not frs they do it on it's regular GMRS and they are not licensed.

How do you know it’s GMRS?

[marcspaz]

23 minutes ago, WQZF786 said:

But it's NOT Frs they get on GMRS Channels and it's not a business

 

With the exception of repeater inputs, all GMRS channels are FRS channels.  Are they on a repeater?

 

Also, unless you are standing in front of the person using the radio and are intimately familiar with that radio, you have no way of knowing if they are using an FRS radio or GMRS radio.  You can't even make the assumption if you know they are 100 miles away from you (assuming they say their actual location) that they are on a GMRS radio, because elevation plays a bigger role in distance than power or radio type.

[JeepCrawler98]

4 hours ago, WQZF786 said:

But it's NOT Frs they get on GMRS Channels and it's not a business

Is this accurate when considering the latest rules? The only non FRS shared channels on GMRS are the repeater inputs (467.550, 467.575 ... 467.725)

See https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95#95.563

Edited August 29, 2022 by JeepCrawler98

[Lscott]

4 hours ago, JeepCrawler98 said:

Is this accurate when considering the latest rules? The only non FRS shared channels on GMRS are the repeater inputs (467.550, 467.575 ... 467.725)

See https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95#95.563

Yes. That’s one of the major differences. It’s also the “carrot” hanging off the stick in front of the donkey to get people to pony up and pay for a GMRS license.

[Sshannon]

13 minutes ago, neosmith20 said:

The FCC needs to changes things for GMRS users!
Sign it and share the crap out of it!!!
The more people we can get to sign this, the better it will be to show the FCC that things for GMRS users need to change!
https://chng.it/Jp4xLrNtBS

That’s not a petition; it’s a rant. I won’t sign it.

[Lscott]

6 minutes ago, neosmith20 said:

The FCC needs to changes things for GMRS users!
Sign it and share the crap out of it!!!
The more people we can get to sign this, the better it will be to show the FCC that things for GMRS users need to change!
https://chng.it/Jp4xLrNtBS

The chances of getting the FCC to grant more exclusive frequencies for GMRS are next to zero. We’re lucky they don’t take some away to use for Part 90 users.

We’re far better off petitioning the FCC to allow digital voice modes on GMRS. The cheap FRS radios would stay the same, limited power, no repeater access and narrow band FM only. There is a thread I started on the topic 1 or 2 months back. In one of my posts there is an attached file outlining the idea.

[Lscott]

1 minute ago, Sshannon said:

That’s not a petition; it’s a rant. I won’t sign it.

Yup.

[marcspaz]

11 hours ago, neosmith20 said:

The FCC needs to changes things for GMRS users!
Sign it and share the crap out of it!!!
The more people we can get to sign this, the better it will be to show the FCC that things for GMRS users need to change!
https://chng.it/Jp4xLrNtBS

If you are serious about this... I'm here to provide a bit of guidance.  Just be ready to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not more), 4 or 5 years of your life, and hire a lawyer.

Those Change.Org petitions don't do a damn thing to convince the government to actually change laws, codes or regulations.  Currently all frequencies between 9 kHz and 275 GHz have been allocated to some service.  You are going to need to hire an attorney to help file a "Petition for Rulemaking" or a "Petition for Reconsideration" to suggest new rules or changes to existing rules (i.e. frequency/channel reallocation).  A lawyer that has done this type of work will know what needs to be in the initial petition. 

As I mentioned, it's expensive and time consuming.  Just to let you know how much it sucks...  Cobra Electronics Corporation filed a Petition for Reconsideration on September 28, 2017, to just add FM to CB radios.  With all the money, influence and resources they have, it took years of follow-up to finally get approval on July 15, 2021.  FM CB radios just started coming to market this year.  You're talking about restructuring some of the spectrum.  I can't image that would be cheaper or faster than just asking to use FM along with AM and SSB.

[BoxCar]

2 minutes ago, marcspaz said:

If you are serious about this... I'm here to provide a bit of guidance.  Just be ready to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not more), 4 or 5 years of your life, and hire a lawyer.

As I mentioned, it's expensive and time consuming.  Just to let you know how much it sucks...  Cobra Electronics Corporation filed a Petition for Reconsideration on September 28, 2017, to just add FM to CB radios.  With all the money, influence and resources they have, it took years of follow-up to finally get approval on July 15, 2021.  FM CB radios just started coming to market this year.  You're talking about restructuring some of the spectrum.  I can't image that would be cheaper or faster than just asking to use FM along with AM and SSB.

4 years to get a petition for recon argued, debated, picked apart and lobbied for is incredibly short. The only ones I've seen that moved faster were when the Commision realized it had made an error. Those are few and far between.

[WRUK284]

I can't believe all the sad hams now whining about GMRS.

[axorlov]

10 minutes ago, WRUK284 said:

I can't believe all the sad hams now whining about GMRS.

Welcome to the forum! Congrats on the perfect first post.

Look everybody, another trooper from the NotaSingleclue Brigade.

[marcspaz]

37 minutes ago, WRUK284 said:

I can't believe all the sad hams now whining about GMRS.

 

Swing and a miss. LoL 

[TNRonin]

I can't believe all the sad hams now whining about GMRS.

Good point. Not too mention the sad hams complaining about your post. LOL they don't even see the irony.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

[marcspaz]

2 hours ago, TNRonin said:

Good point. Not too mention the sad hams complaining about your post. LOL they don't even see the irony.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk
 

 

I don't think Sad Ham means what you think it means.

 

Alex isn't a sad ham... he's a decent guy and so is Randy. 

 

The thing is Randy @OffRoaderX has been correct with most of his statements and he has some pretty solid opinions that I haven't really been able to rebut. However, Randy (or at least his online personality) also doesn't care if your feelings are hurt by the truth or his opinions, and that upsets some people... which I find THAT ironic! LoL

[axorlov]

Hey, Marc

You are loosing it, man. Your granddaughter's reflection diary starts with https://schoolloop.com/...

 

[kidphc]

Good point. Not too mention the sad hams complaining about your post. LOL they don't even see the irony.

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk

Funny enough. Starting, to hear sad gmrs users.

Whining about not having extra frequencies, more digital allocation bandwidth, digital (thx btech pro) on repeaters, among other things. Even encryption..lol..

No, they are not hams. I know some of them personally. Even tried to convince them to get tickets. More whining ensues.

The fact is our beloved service will go the way of cb. Where you can't turn it on around kids because of the behavior and language. Enter the jerk wad who is on local repeaters, broadcasting music, scratching the mic and ptt'ing when someone is talking to stamp/distort the transmission.

God, nowadays I wish I had the money to put up a business repeater.






Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[WRUQ758]

I simply run decode tone on my repeater output frequency and never hear the low power unlicensed radio chatter. The repeater overpowers the portables at the local store / business. It's annoying if you listen to it but just block it with tone. 

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, WRUQ758 said:

I simply run decode tone on my repeater output frequency and never hear the low power unlicensed radio chatter. The repeater overpowers the portables at the local store / business. It's annoying if you listen to it but just block it with tone. 

So, you’re intentionally overpowering the transmissions of others (at the local store/business) on the same frequency?

Why not simply move to a different frequency?

[marcspaz]

6 hours ago, kidphc said:

Funny enough. Starting, to hear sad gmrs users.

Whining about not having extra frequencies, more digital allocation bandwidth, digital (thx btech pro) on repeaters, among other things. Even encryption..lol..

No, they are not hams. I know some of them personally. Even tried to convince them to get tickets. More whining ensues.

The fact is our beloved service will go the way of cb. Where you can't turn it on around kids because of the behavior and language. Enter the jerk wad who is on local repeaters, broadcasting music, scratching the mic and ptt'ing when someone is talking to stamp/distort the transmission.

God, nowadays I wish I had the money to put up a business repeater.






Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

 

Mike W. told me one if the troublemakers around here is mobile and just drives around DC metro and messes with people on the repeaters. 

 

Part of me thinks "don't feed the monkeys and the will go away" and another part of me feels like we should do a fox hunt.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

So, you’re intentionally overpowering the transmissions of others (at the local store/business) on the same frequency?

Why not simply move to a different frequency?

 

They might be doing the same thing I do. Every GMRS/FRS and MURS frequency is being used by local retailers and restaurants around me.  They all use tone codes and the repeaters do too.  Most of them can't hear the repeater on the cheap handheld radios while in their building, so we don't interfere with them, but if you aren't running tone squelch, you will hear them all day.

 

So, we "tone them out."

[WRUQ758]

13 hours ago, Sshannon said:

So, you’re intentionally overpowering the transmissions of others (at the local store/business) on the same frequency?

Why not simply move to a different frequency?

I'm not sure where you got that from? Why would I move to a different frequency if my local repeater is on it? We have 8 GMRS repeater channels that stores operate on the repeater output frequencies instead of using the many simplex GMRS/FRS channels. If I'm on a repeater channel (only ones I use) I am transmitting on the repeater input and I'm not overpowering anyone. I'm listening on the output and the local repeater overpowers or drowns out those low powered unlicensed radios that's not me, it's the repeater. I don't own the repeater near me. All I am saying to serious GMRS users is put your tone decode on your receive and only the repeater tone will be passed. If a store or business wants to have radios there are plenty of licensed business channels to use. They can also use the FRS channels. If they use ANY GMRS channels at GMRS power levels they have to get a license for each employee. As far as "grandfathered" GMRS business licensees I did an advanced FCC ULS search for 462.600 and there was only one in the entire country and four on 462.575. I doubt there are many businesses left that are actually legal on GMRS.

[Sshannon]

13 minutes ago, WRUQ758 said:

I'm not sure where you got that from? Why would I move to a different frequency if my local repeater is on it? We have 8 GMRS repeater channels that stores operate on the repeater output frequencies instead of using the many simplex GMRS/FRS channels. If I'm on a repeater channel (only ones I use) I am transmitting on the repeater input and I'm not overpowering anyone. I'm listening on the output and the local repeater overpowers or drowns out those low powered unlicensed radios that's not me, it's the repeater. I don't own the repeater near me. All I am saying to serious GMRS users is put your tone decode on your receive and only the repeater tone will be passed. If a store or business wants to have radios there are plenty of licensed business channels to use. They can also use the FRS channels. If they use ANY GMRS channels at GMRS power levels they have to get a license for each employee. As far as "grandfathered" GMRS business licensees I did an advanced FCC ULS search for 462.600 and there was only one in the entire country and four on 462.575. I doubt there are many businesses left that are actually legal on GMRS.

This sentence made me think you owned the repeater:

Quote

I simply run decode tone on my repeater output frequency

Those repeater output channels are available as FRS channels as well.  It’s entirely possible they’re doing everything by the book.