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Do you talk to the --- unlicensed?


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#41 chiefeis

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:15 PM

Ok, I got that FRS is narrowband and I think I see what you're getting at.  I'm not sure why the FCC approved the manuals (which is part of the approval package) without language stating that the interstitial channels also require a license. That's setting the users up for failure. 


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#42 SteveC7010

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:40 PM

I'm not saying the radios are in violation. I'm saying the USERS are. If the shared channels are wide band, then the user must get a GMRS license..or stick to the 7 FRS only narrow channels.

 

On that, we are both in total agreement. However, if the user keeps the radio in low power FRS mode, there's no reason they can not use the lower 7 channels.

 

But then that begs the issue of radios being sold to the unknowing and uninformed who don't read the manual and if they did, they'd ignore the limitation anyway.


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#43 jwilkers

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:13 PM

Whew... Sometimes it is so hard to explain via typing..... Glad you were able to bear with me thru my explanation. Yes...manuals are so terribly written.

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#44 Durake

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 01:28 PM

I've been waiting to do this for a while.. My Middle School was on GMRS so I explained licensing and all that, thankfully they cooperated by switching over to FRS, if not I probably would've gotten suspended for setting up a simplex repeater so they hear themselves repeated, but with what was going on back then and still these days with school shootings that probably wouldn't have been the smartest decision..


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#45 jwilkers

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 01:01 PM

I reported a local school to the fcc. They got a notice of violation. Since then, times have changed and most districts in my area have a centralized system.

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#46 Sasquatch

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 08:58 PM

I know this is never going to happen because of money and inconvenience, but if the manufactures offered GMRS only radios, and had the customer sign a briefing statement that they need a licence to operate the radio, maybe it would be a different world. I think most people just use the radios out of ignorance, not any real malice aforethought. :mellow:


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#47 SteveC7010

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:47 PM

I know this is never going to happen because of money and inconvenience, but if the manufactures offered GMRS only radios, and had the customer sign a briefing statement that they need a licence to operate the radio, maybe it would be a different world. I think most people just use the radios out of ignorance, not any real malice aforethought. :mellow:

 

And that probably is why bubble pack radios are no where near the full wattage allowed, usually by a factor of half or greater.


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#48 WQQL573

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Posted 03 December 2016 - 10:41 PM

In my area we had an issue with a major chain Hotel using 462.725 (one of our repeater pairs) for their business comms on commercial radios.   After we researched and verified that there was no possibility of them having an ancient license for Non-Individual on GMRS,  I politely contacted them on their frequency in an attempt to explain the situation.   The Manager got on the radio telling me she was going to "Call the Cops" because I was not allowed to use their "channel".    So I stopped at the hotel and again,  politely, attempted to show them the FCC regulations and offer them a solution when the manager freaked out and called the police.   Because I was on their property I simply left shaking my head.    Needless to say I made sure they got a letter from our northwest FCC Representative Binh Mtuyem out of the Portland, Oregon area. 

We've had a few other businesses pop up on GMRS and most are polite and will move to FRS once it's politely explained to them,  but there are still geniuses at gas stations and hotels that love to wander into GMRS then cuss and threaten anyone who tries to help them follow the law.   Oh well!  

On a trip through Sisters, Oregon we had a Hotel/Resort employee on a MURS frequency we were using for travel comms tell us they "Owned" this channel and we needed to immediately get off of "his" channel or he was going to call the "FBI".   That was a fun conversation!  LOL

 


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#49 Unit 460

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:00 AM

For clarification - Bubble pack radios *can* be used on shared frequencies without a license, provided they don't exceed .5W.  Even the little Talkabouts I first bought for use around the farm had that option.

 

ref: https://www.fcc.gov/...io-service-gmrs

 

Incorrect Sir. This is taken right from the link you have provided: "(Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)"


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#50 Unit 460

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:18 AM

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

Only if you are a licensed GMRS operator as you can read below from the FCC website everyone is linking to on here:

 

(Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)


 
 

 


#51 Unit 460

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 11:26 AM

Note: for some reason this computer will not allow me to quote or copy/paste.

 

As I noted above, if the *user* is using a bubble pack radio that only allows .5W and a non-replaceable antenna then ALL FRS channels, including the interstitial channels, are available for use.

This is correct so long as they are the 14-Ch. FRS radios. As far as I am aware anything that is Dual Service (22-Ch, or more now days) is also dual power on the interstitial channels making them unusable on anything other than channels 8-14 by anyone without a GMRS license. And even the dual service radios are required to have permanent install antennas as they are still capable of transmitting on FRS only Ch's-8-14.


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#52 Unit 460

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 12:12 PM

If you operate on the shared frequencies above .5W you are a GMRS user. If you operate at .5W with the integral antenna you are an FRS user. The FCC clearly states that on their website.

 

The bubble pack radios, therefore, are approved, authorized, allowed, etc on the shared channels.

This statement is correct in the sense of the power and antenna design for use as an FRS station. However you can still be classified as a GMRS user using 500mW with an integral antenna on the interstitial frequencies as using the 22-Ch bubble pack radios would place you in wide band on those frequencies unless the MFR designed it for Narrow band only or to switch automatically with the power level used.


 
 

 


#53 chiefeis

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

Uh, I think we already hashed this out.  ;)


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#54 wqyy664

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:54 AM

The only unlicensed use we get around here is the Ky Dept of Transportation using bubble pack radio's on GMRS for traffic control and the occasional hunters. I leave the hunters alone, would you want to argue with a guy and his gun?

Also, a couple of the schools here use FRS for handling traffic in their parking lots and since I live close to a major highway I hear both frs/gmrs traffic for a few minutes as they pass through my area. Once they get past a large mountain that stands between me and the parkway they are pretty much out of reach.

Once in a great while  I hear K-DOT using MURS.


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#55 radio1

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:59 PM

About 2:00 AM one morning I over heard two guys planning a break in several miles away using their bubble pack radios. I started answering their transmissions, which produced stunned silence, followed by the statement "Go to the secret channel".  I turned on the scanner and found the "secret" channel in about 10 seconds. I then pretended to be a hidden observer who would "keep them in sight" until the police arrived. Panic ensued and the nefarious activities were abandoned for the evening.

That sounds like the movie "The Bank Job" where an amateur overhears the robbers and informs police...



#56 Michael S

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 02:37 AM

On that, we are both in total agreement. However, if the user keeps the radio in low power FRS mode, there's no reason they can not use the lower 7 channels.

 

But then that begs the issue of radios being sold to the unknowing and uninformed who don't read the manual and if they did, they'd ignore the limitation anyway.

The unknowing, uninformed and unwashed such as myself are trying to follow the byzantine and myriad regulations but you have to be an engineer and attorney to understand them. I just want an easy way to communicate with my family when cell service is down (like on a cruise ship). I just obtained my license and WANT to be in compliance; that's why I signed up for this site, but if even seasoned users such as yourselves can't agree on what is legal and what is not; what hope do us newbies have? You guys throw out terms of khrtz, simplex, duplex, ctrss, and a thousand other terms us non-engineering background folk have no clue of what those are; yet I am trying to be in compliance (and yes, this is after reading the manual cover to cover). Now, in my mind, I am hearing voices of Yoda saying, "relax, Luke, use the force" before I key up my handheld. It just seems we shouldn't need an engineering degree to talk on the "family" frequencies when licensed.  



#57 Sasquatch

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 08:02 PM

The unknowing, uninformed and unwashed such as myself are trying to follow the byzantine and myriad regulations but you have to be an engineer and attorney to understand them. I just want an easy way to communicate with my family when cell service is down (like on a cruise ship). I just obtained my license and WANT to be in compliance; that's why I signed up for this site, but if even seasoned users such as yourselves can't agree on what is legal and what is not; what hope do us newbies have? You guys throw out terms of khrtz, simplex, duplex, ctrss, and a thousand other terms us non-engineering background folk have no clue of what those are; yet I am trying to be in compliance (and yes, this is after reading the manual cover to cover). Now, in my mind, I am hearing voices of Yoda saying, "relax, Luke, use the force" before I key up my handheld. It just seems we shouldn't need an engineering degree to talk on the "family" frequencies when licensed.  

 

Try not to get too discouraged with all the technical terms. It just seems overwhelming at first, before long you'll be dropping MHz bombs like a pro. Something that helps me is to just pick a couple of technical terms and do an on line search for a simple explanation. Eventually it will begin to make sense. 


De Oppresso Liber


#58 WRAF213

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:29 AM

And don't be afraid to ask! There may be some bitter people out there, but there are at least as many people out there that want to help new licensees get on the air with good operating practice and knowledge.

 

I find it helps to listen a lot, like when you aren't able (or willing) to talk but can have a receiver on. You'll catch on to patterns in their behavior, and active attempts at mimicking that will feel natural before you know it. A pretty common thing that licensed folk do is use the NATO phonetic alphabet for identification etc., it's something good and easy to learn (start with your own callsign), and can be useful outside of radio too.


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#59 mainehazmt

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 10:52 AM

I just wanted to add to this, HIPPA does not specify the form of communication as its restrictions apply directly to the information contained not the means of transmitting that information.. If someone is violating HIPPA laws it does not matter how or where they are doing it, it is still a violation.. Dissemination of information in any means to anyone other than those privileged to receive it is a violation. It could be in person, over the phone, over the Air or what have it.
When training as an Emergency Medical Technician it was pounded into our heads never ever give a patients personal information over the radio or telephone to the hospital or anyone else for that matter. When transmitting vitals and other 
pertinent information the most we could do is give the patients age and sex over the air. The rest of the information went into the report.

thats what we did and if we wanted to get more specific on certain people we might add they are a “frequent flyer”. That help narrow down some info lol

#60 timpate316

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 04:00 PM

In my area it is very quiet. Now for those on GMRS frequencies a lot of kids.Murs Channel three is very active it's very nice very respectful community.




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