Repurposing for a repeater?

[wayoverthere]

(moved from the "So you just got your GMRS license and now you want to set up a repeater" thread)

 

So..a little pie in the sky thinking on this topic; hoping to draw on the collective knowledge and experience of the community (i know there's a bit of general radio, antenna/repeater, and ham knowledge out there) as to how realistic the idea is, any ideas on potential costs, and possible pitfalls.  That said, onto the idea:

• How feasible would it be to repurpose an existing site as a GMRS repeater?
• There is a site not far from me that was previously used as a base site for commercial radio (roadside assistance dispatch); the licensing shows cancelled in 2018 from what i can find.
• the antenna and mast appear to still be intact. from what i can find, they were on 452.600mhz and 152.920mhz from this site, with 75 watts output. From what i can find, it'd be a stacked folded dipole setup (found a similar photo online, added below) with a total height of 75.5 ft.  i realize this isn't exactly GMRS bands, but is it close enough to be usable?
• Given that it was most likely a dispatch site, repeater hardware probably would probably be needed.
• From the design/permitting/licensing side, how much of previous work could be carried over, since the structure is already in place?  Any educated (or wild) guesses on how willing an organization like this might be willing to work with/lease for something like this?
• My area is pretty sparse with repeaters according to the database; there's a couple "permission required" that don't appear to be responding to questions on the listing, and one open that doesn't appear to be operational; the listing hasn't been touched since 2009, and questions posted haven't been addressed.  There's a couple others around, but appear to be out of range as well. with that in mind, setting up open repeater initiative compliant is a thought as well

all thoughts and opinions welcome.

 

 

http://www.starantenna.com/images/home/Stacked-Folded-Dipole-Omni-Directional-Antenna.jpg

[gortex2]

Antenna in the picture is VHF. You would need to swap the antenna before doing anything.

[coryb27]

(moved from the "So you just got your GMRS license and now you want to set up a repeater" thread)

 

So..a little pie in the sky thinking on this topic; hoping to draw on the collective knowledge and experience of the community (i know there's a bit of general radio, antenna/repeater, and ham knowledge out there) as to how realistic the idea is, any ideas on potential costs, and possible pitfalls.  That said, onto the idea:

• How feasible would it be to repurpose an existing site as a GMRS repeater?
• There is a site not far from me that was previously used as a base site for commercial radio (roadside assistance dispatch); the licensing shows cancelled in 2018 from what i can find.
• the antenna and mast appear to still be intact. from what i can find, they were on 452.600mhz and 152.920mhz from this site, with 75 watts output. From what i can find, it'd be a stacked folded dipole setup (found a similar photo online, added below) with a total height of 75.5 ft.  i realize this isn't exactly GMRS bands, but is it close enough to be usable?
• Given that it was most likely a dispatch site, repeater hardware probably would probably be needed.
• From the design/permitting/licensing side, how much of previous work could be carried over, since the structure is already in place?  Any educated (or wild) guesses on how willing an organization like this might be willing to work with/lease for something like this?
• My area is pretty sparse with repeaters according to the database; there's a couple "permission required" that don't appear to be responding to questions on the listing, and one open that doesn't appear to be operational; the listing hasn't been touched since 2009, and questions posted haven't been addressed.  There's a couple others around, but appear to be out of range as well. with that in mind, setting up open repeater initiative compliant is a thought as well

all thoughts and opinions welcome.

 

 

http://www.starantenna.com/images/home/Stacked-Folded-Dipole-Omni-Directional-Antenna.jpg

 

I agree this is VHF. I see you mentioned this was some stock photo you found, can you get a photo of the actual antenna? Most UHF dipoles will cover 450 to 470 so if the actual antenna is UHF it would be usable for GMRS.

 

A UHF Dipole will have lobes like this

http://mwgmrs.com/mygmrs/attic/uhfbase2.jpg

[Ian]

Since siting is so important to performance, this is the most exciting newbie repeater project I've seen so far.  

[gortex2]

Also run a FCC search for the coordinates. You mentioned the license was cancelled. Back in my shop days we did a lot of LMR and a few times would add a site like this to our license especially if we had a chance to sell other on the system in a fringe area. Once you determine there is nothing connected to the antenna and it is indeed UHF find someone to sweep the antenna for Return Loss and DTF to verify the line and antenna is good. Once that is determined and a deal can be made with the owner, then start assembling your parts for a repeater. As I have said other times if you do build the repeater yourself image is every thing. Most customers/site owner dont want to see mobile or portable radios wire tied to a sheep of metal or power supply. Make it neat. Quality jumpers for the duplexer with no adapters and you will have a decent repeater.

 

Site lease/costs is a big unknown. Do some research and talk to the owner. A lot of times you can work something out especially if its a local agency. If its American or Crown walk away as your going topay many thousands a year. When our SAR team first put a repeater online we worked out a deal to mow and maintain the building at an old tower site in exchange for rent. Worked great for years.

[wayoverthere]

I agree this is VHF. I see you mentioned this was some stock photo you found, can you get a photo of the actual antenna? Most UHF dipoles will cover 450 to 470 so if the actual antenna is UHF it would be usable for GMRS.

 

A UHF Dipole will have lobes like this

 

Adding photos below, but i'm seeing the same; what i see definitely has bigger lobes than the UHF in your photo.  I'll add a couple links of what i was looking at, but what i found in FCC's databases, shows both VHF and UHF at this site, while the other site (#4 on the fcc link) was VHF only. if the UHF isn't there, that definitely adds a hurdle or three. it might still be worth reaching out and seeing if i can get some concrete answers on what's there before writing it off.

 

i'm kind of curious what the actual setup of everything was when it was operational, as there was VHF in both sites, and only this one with UHF.  this one is a bit closer to the hills though, and pretty much the tallest thing around for a few miles. given the dual frequencies here maybe there was a repeater involved here after all?

 

Also run a FCC search for the coordinates. You mentioned the license was cancelled. Back in my shop days we did a lot of LMR and a few times would add a site like this to our license especially if we had a chance to sell other on the system in a fringe area. Once you determine there is nothing connected to the antenna and it is indeed UHF find someone to sweep the antenna for Return Loss and DTF to verify the line and antenna is good. Once that is determined and a deal can be made with the owner, then start assembling your parts for a repeater. As I have said other times if you do build the repeater yourself image is every thing. Most customers/site owner dont want to see mobile or portable radios wire tied to a sheep of metal or power supply. Make it neat. Quality jumpers for the duplexer with no adapters and you will have a decent repeater.

 

Site lease/costs is a big unknown. Do some research and talk to the owner. A lot of times you can work something out especially if its a local agency. If its American or Crown walk away as your going topay many thousands a year. When our SAR team first put a repeater online we worked out a deal to mow and maintain the building at an old tower site in exchange for rent. Worked great for years.

 

FCC was one of the places i was digging (i think i started from antennasearch.com, wondering what it was). 

 

 

If the links don't work, it's listed under callsign KDW613, and primarily location 2.  it's the corner of the parking lot at a AAA office.

 

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1773256

 

http://www.antennasearch.com/sitestart.asp?sourcepagename=antennachecktxreview&getpagename=pgtxdetail&cmdrequest=getpage&ipos=15&isubpos=1&strtxtype=lmpriv&unique_system_identifier=1773256&location_number=2

 

[gortex2]

Definitely VHF. They may of licensed UHF for a control link of some sort over time. I had a few construction companies that did that when they were on lowband. a local UHF repeater was installed at the building and was tied into the lowband base radio. This allowed guys in the shop and yard to talk to the trucks on the road via portable radio. 

[Jones]

Adding photos below, but i'm seeing the same; what i see definitely has bigger lobes than the UHF in your photo.  I'll add a couple links of what i was looking at, but what i found in FCC's databases, shows both VHF and UHF at this site, while the other site (#4 on the fcc link) was VHF only. if the UHF isn't there, that definitely adds a hurdle or three. it might still be worth reaching out and seeing if i can get some concrete answers on what's there before writing it off.

 

i'm kind of curious what the actual setup of everything was when it was operational, as there was VHF in both sites, and only this one with UHF.  this one is a bit closer to the hills though, and pretty much the tallest thing around for a few miles. given the dual frequencies here maybe there was a repeater involved here after all?

 

 

FCC was one of the places i was digging (i think i started from antennasearch.com, wondering what it was). 

 

 

If the links don't work, it's listed under callsign KDW613, and primarily location 2.  it's the corner of the parking lot at a AAA office.

 

https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1773256

 

http://www.antennasearch.com/sitestart.asp?sourcepagename=antennachecktxreview&getpagename=pgtxdetail&cmdrequest=getpage&ipos=15&isubpos=1&strtxtype=lmpriv&unique_system_identifier=1773256&location_number=2

 

That antenna is without question a Commscope/Andrew DB224-A. 150MHz VHF antenna.

 

It may even still be in use today.  Don't stir up any trouble, but a lot of businesses on the 150 MHz band, when told they had to replace all of their radios with narrow-band units by 2013, simply didn't.  ...and didn't renew their license either.  The FCC hasn't been doing any enforcement on the VHF business service unless there is an interference complaint.  Even out here in rural Nebraska, there are dozens of no longer licensed VHF wideband-FM systems still in use daily.

 

The license says it is for AAA, and that UHF frequency pair (452.6/457.6) was previously reserved for automotive towing and emergency services, so it is obviously owned by the AAA office at which it is sitting.  Go in and ask them if they still use it, or if they have migrated their communications to the cellular services.

 

By the way, on the wide shot you sent of the pole, the UHF link antenna is a 3-element UHF beam covered by a fiberglass radome.  It is that small flag-looking thing about half-way up the pole, hanging off the left side.  It is a UHF link to some other site.

[Jones]

By studying the license for a while, I have also determined that this site (#2) was licensed for standby use.  It was normally not in operation, but could be activated as a backup for site #4, which is the primary antenna covering Fresno.