Midland GMRS Product updates

[Sshannon]

57 minutes ago, foamhand said:

Part 95E will not approve any GMRS radio which is capable of transmitting in the unlicensed services such as Amateur Radio, and all programming features need to be internal inside the case on the circuit board for only authorized techs to access. The DTMF programming microphone buttons on the 588 UHF makes that Illegal on GMRS as the Midland Microphone has NO programming buttons on it to pass Part 95E. IF the Anytone 588 UHF only radio was a Part 90 approved radio which I don't believe it is, there may be a grey area for operation on the amateur service, but not GMRS.

No.  Being able to configure legal GMRS channels from external buttons isn’t what the regulations refer to. You can’t interpret a single sentence outside of the context of the entire paragraph. 

[back4more70]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

He isn’t saying that in this particular post; what he posted is the requirement in 95.1761(c).  But he’s using it to support ann incorrect interpretation. We have to consider the paragraph in its entirety.  The buttons on the outside of your 935(g) don’t allow you to program your radio to a frequency capability not listed in 95.1763, so they’re not what this paragraph is talking about:

You sure? Because:

 I have been dying to use this image somewhere

[foamhand]

6 hours ago, Sshannon said:

No.  Being able to configure legal GMRS channels from external buttons isn’t what the regulations refer to. You can’t interpret a single sentence outside of the context of the entire paragraph. 

I love sentence critics lacking reading comprehension. Like the liberal mainstream media, they cherry pick sentence context to twist the meaning to justify what they want. This QUOTE is right from the FCC Part 95 Rules Section:

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Posted 7 hours ago

QUOTE: No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure. END QUOTE

Since the programming buttons / features of the Anytone 588 UHF monoband radio are enabling the radio to be programmed TO TRANSMIT (Frequency Determining) (NOT JUST RECEIVE ONLY - that's legal) ON FREQUENCIES OUTSIDE of the legally authorized range for GMRS Part 95E type acceptance (Which the 588 UHF monoband radio does, such as allowing you to program in transmitting capabilities in the Amateur Radio service AND / OR Part 90 Commercial Radio Service which it is not type accepted for either) It is not legal to use on GMRS or Part 90 comms and It will NOT be granted Part 95E Type acceptance for use on GMRS Per the FCC as it can be programmed to TRANSMIT IN THE AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE WHICH DOES NOT REQUIRE EQUIPMENT CERTIFICATION.

For standard function programming in a radio firmware locked to not enable out-of-GMRS-band TRANSMIT programming like the Wouxun KG935G+, those programming functions are legally user allowed. Yes the FCC wording is a bit ambiguous and not specific enough to be clear here but if someone can't get the basic comprehension of this, maybe they shouldn't operate a radio. I'm not going to get my answers here as there's always a troll waiting to argue. I'll find my info elsewhere, or experiment on my own.

[WRYS709]

9 minutes ago, foamhand said:

I love sentence critics lacking reading comprehension. Like the liberal mainstream media, they cherry pick sentence context to twist the meaning to justify what they want. 

Two guesses which Congresswoman he voted for and the first one does not count!

[Lscott]

6 hours ago, Sshannon said:

He isn’t saying that in this particular post; what he posted is the requirement in 95.1761(c).  But he’s using it to support ann incorrect interpretation. We have to consider the paragraph in its entirety.  The buttons on the outside of your 935(g) don’t allow you to program your radio to a frequency capability not listed in 95.1763, so they’re not what this paragraph is talking about:

(c) No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in § 95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure. 

 

 

A bit off topic but the above section "C" is phrased in a peculiar way with regard to what frequency, or frequencies, are programmed into a radio. The specific argument has to do with having Ham 70cm frequencies in the radio while also having GMRS frequencies at the same time.

There are people who claim it isn't legal. I disagree.

First off I mentioned in a post a while back that the Ham 70cm band is not an exclusive allocation. Hams only have secondary privileges. The primary users, typically government stations, are. Those frequencies are licensed and the radios require certification, even if they fall within the Ham band. Due to the statement:

"unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required"

Having a "Ham" 70cm frequency in the radio along with GMRS can be argued to comply with the above quote rule section and thus legal.

Where you do run afoul of the rules is with the FPP, Front Panel Programming, that allows the user to enter an arbitrary frequency into the radio. I believe that's what doomed the first generation Baofeng radios. They had Part 90 certification, BUT that also required the radios can not allow arbitrary frequency entry under Part 90. In a quick move the radios where shipped with the frequency programming functionality disabled and either required it to be enabled through a menu setting or the use of the programming software to enable it.

Some of the current model LMR, commercial, type radios also allow FPP. However it has to be specifically enabled through the radio's programming software. It can't be enabled by accessing any controls the user can manipulate. The programming software has warnings about making sure the "feature" is disabled before turning over the radio to the user for normal operation.

[Sshannon]

16 minutes ago, foamhand said:

I love sentence critics lacking reading comprehension.

Slow your roll, there, Tonya.  What I said was:

6 hours ago, Sshannon said:

No.  Being able to configure legal GMRS channels from external buttons isn’t what the regulations refer to. You can’t interpret a single sentence outside of the context of the entire paragraph. 

I agree with you that the regulations say that having the ability to easily configure a radio to transmit on frequencies in ham bands on GMRS radios excludes them from 95E certification.  In fact, if you took the time you would see that I posted the same paragraph from the regulations.

[Lscott]

2 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Slow your roll, there, Tonya.  What I said was:

I agree with you that the regulations say that having the ability to easily configure a radio to transmit on frequencies in ham bands on GMRS radios excludes them from 95E certification.  In fact, if you took the time you would see that I posted the same paragraph from the regulations.

There seems to be some confusion when reading the regulations. I had to re-read it several times before it made sense, at least to me, with how it was written. It made more sense when I considered the radios, the commercial ones I have, with Part 95 and 90 certification. The radios where manufactured to sell into different markets. This was before the 2017 rule changes. If the radio was programmed with Ham frequencies AND those were an exclusive allocation for Ham we would have a problem.

At the time those radios were designed and certified for business use of GMRS frequencies it was legal. With the 2017 changes not anymore and why you are very unlikely to find a manufacture that will bother, no market.

The FPP issue is pretty clear cut with little wiggle room. The reason why you can find it on some radios apparently there are some government agencies where it is allowed.

[Sshannon]

6 minutes ago, Lscott said:

There seems to be some confusion when reading the regulations. I had to re-read it several times before it made sense, at least to me, with how it was written. It made more sense when I considered the radios, the commercial ones I have, with Part 95 and 90 certification. The radios where manufactured to sell into different markets. This was before the 2017 rule changes. If the radio was programmed with Ham frequencies AND those were an exclusive allocation for Ham we would have a problem.

At the time those radios were designed and certified for business use of GMRS frequencies it was legal. With the 2017 changes not anymore and why you are very unlikely to find a manufacture that will bother, no market.

The FPP issue is pretty clear cut with little wiggle room. The reason why you can find it on some radios apparently there are some government agencies where it is allowed.

Agreed. Having a radio that is certified for part 90 and part 95e, and could be flipped from a part 90 commercial (non-ham) frequency to a part 95e frequency would not seem to be a problem the way I understand the rules.