GMRS Real World Emergency Communication Experience?

[MozartMan]

7 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

For my work I carry a Garmin Inreach + Its $15 a month for piece of mind.

How much do you pay for Iridium satellite network monthly access?

[gortex2]

I carry the Garmin. Its $15.00 a month for messaging. 

 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461

[MozartMan]

7 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

I carry the Garmin. Its $15.00 a month for messaging. 

Are you saying that you do not need to pay to Iridium company for access to Iridium satellite network in order to use Garmin Inreach device?

 

 

[Sshannon]

6 minutes ago, gortex2 said:

I would not rely on GMRS for an emergency. Even in all my years of SAR FRS/GMRS has never helped us. For my work I carry a Garmin Inreach + Its $15 a month for piece of mind.

 

I understand your perspective.  As an SAR person, GMRS would not be part of your plan. I'm glad. 

But I don't see that as being the perspective of the question.  I see the question as being from the perspective of the average GMRS user, not someone who's already involved in emergency response.  We don't go towards emergencies like emergency response people. Emergencies happen to us when we least expect them.  Nearly always we would be calling 911 on our cell phones for an emergency, but what if we don't have cell service?  Because we are GMRS owners/users, that might be the only communications tool we have available.  So, from the perspective of someone who has an emergency or stumbles into an emergency and only happens to have a GMRS radio, how do we use it effectively? This is an area where you professionals could help us neophytes.

[AdmiralCochrane]

Sshannon, here's the same old saw - GMRS has very limited range in most conditions. Without being on a pointy mountain top, a hand held usually has a mile or less range, a vehicle mounted mobile might have 3 or 4 miles range to a similar vehicle.  For effective use, learn if there is one or more repeaters in your area and learn if you can become authorized to use it. If so, program your radio to use it and figure out where and when its useful.

The best advice is become licensed and use it.  In some areas it will be a good standby and alternate comm mode, in other areas it will be completely useless.  You won't know without using it in situ and no one can really tell you EXACTLY how it will work for you and YOUR locations. 

 

A lot of people say they want something for alternate comms if cells are down - if cells are down, most repeaters will be down too and many GMRS frequencies will be flooded with people with little or no knowledge of using a radio. 

In my area there ARE several well located repeaters on commercial towers with backup power, but in reality, its rare outside of MAJOR metro areas.  There are many repeaters here, but almost none have back up power and most are poorly located. Out of 50 or 60 around here, only 3 or 4 would be useful. 

[PACNWComms]

1 hour ago, MozartMan said:

How much do you pay for Iridium satellite network monthly access?

Iridium is about $50 per month while Globalstar is about $30 per month. Each had its problems at different times, with government assistance for both, earlier for Iridium, and later for Globalstar, so Globalstar is still a little cheaper as a result. My accounts have been active since 2005, so new accounts may be more now. As others mentioned Garmin is $15 per month, I use one of those too. I spent ten years providing emergency communications for floors, hurricanes, and oil spill, which included hurricanes: Katrina, Rita, and Wilma in 2005, and the Deepwater Horizon incident in 2010. Being in so many incidents, I spend a lot of time in rural areas that lack cell phone and often public safety radio service, hence the satphones and tethered device (Garmin). 

[MozartMan]

2 minutes ago, PACNWComms said:

Iridium is about $50 per month while Globalstar is about $30 per month. Each had its problems at different times, with government assistance for both, earlier for Iridium, and later for Globalstar, so Globalstar is still a little cheaper as a result. My accounts have been active since 2005, so new accounts may be more now. As others mentioned Garmin is $15 per month, I use one of those too. I spent ten years providing emergency communications for floors, hurricanes, and oil spill, which included hurricanes: Katrina, Rita, and Wilma in 2005, and the Deepwater Horizon incident in 2010. Being in so many incidents, I spend a lot of time in rural areas that lack cell phone and often public safety radio service, hence the satphones and tethered device (Garmin). 

Thanks. Good info.

[PACNWComms]

For those that venture into the wilderness of Washington State or Oregon, there are many people that carry FRS/GMRS radios (pre-2017), or GMRS only radios. This also includes Coast Guard and military that may have been issued Garmin Rino's of several different models. Along the Olympic Peninsula, Garmin Rino's are carried by many Search and Rescue Team personnel, with some non public safety (volunteers) using Motorola Trbo series radios. This allows for two types of radio, that both have the capability of GPS function (Rino built in as radio/GPS, and Trbo radio sending data location on one time slot and voice on the other to a Trbonet dispatch console). For FRS use, Channel 1 is most often monitored, with remote listening posts receiving everything above the noise floor, wth the exception of ISM band 900MHz frequency hopping radios. 

If I were going into rural ares of these two states, I would have a FRS/GMRS radio set to FRS Channel 1 if I got into trouble and lacked cell phone coverage. Amateur radio and a list of local repeaters would also be include.....but after the satphones and Garmin InReach tethered to my cell phone.

[axorlov]

2 minutes ago, PACNWComms said:

Iridium is about $50 per month

I thought it's a bit cheaper nowadays. Like $400/year to keep account active + whatever you use (the cheapest plan). But does not change a big picture.

2 hours ago, MozartMan said:

Are you saying that you do not need to pay to Iridium company for access to Iridium satellite network in order to use Garmin Inreach device?

Some of my former riding buddies who ride dirt bikes alone in the mountains (crazy a-holes) carry inReach. I do not, I do not do motorcycling in boondocks, just MTB-ing, but I'm sure that $15 a month is all you need to pay, without any additional payment to the Iridium.

[PACNWComms]

2 minutes ago, axorlov said:

Like $400/year to keep account active + whatever you use (the cheapest plan).

I am on a grandfathered plan that includes time, which gets used, then I pay additional if going over.....do not recall the amount of time included. May have to see if getting a new account can save some money.

[marcspaz]

I'm going to throw this out there. I did about a year ago and it was not well received, but I hope this audience is a bit more open-minded. 

Just my own personal opinion, the best solution that has zero reliance on any underlying system is 40-meter Amateur radio.  There are extremely lightweight, compact, battery powered radios. You can get a small foldable/roll-up solar kit for unlimited use. The antenna is just a piece of wire that only need to be a few feet off the ground.  The best part is, depending on how high you make the antenna, you can talk everywhere from 1 to 10,000 miles.  You are going to get help day or night and can actually talk to someone for health and welfare as well as status updates. 

 

I know we're a GMRS forum and there is some good advice on the satcom stuff, too... but I feel like they have dependencies that are failure points. 

[Lscott]

Marc, all opinions are welcomed.

I think the main point about your experience is VHF radio is great, BUT it’s line-of-sight so if you’re out of range you’re basically screwed. UHF radio is no different. At 20 miles that’s a lot of distance to cover.

Thinking about it I’m surprised that nobody came looking for you after a day not reporting back in. At least you didn’t mention it. 

In an emergency people should try to keep track of each other in their group. At least checkin with others and if you don’t hear anything a plan to find out why.

[Tyeandjeff1979]

3 hours ago, gortex2 said:

I carry the Garmin. Its $15.00 a month for messaging. 

 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/837461

I carry a inreach mini when I'm longlining (deckhand) out in the gulf of alaska.  I use the freedom plan for $65 and unlimited texting and tracking and weather it's awesome.  The boss is cool with us using the Sat phone but to be able to text at-will from almost anywhere is so nice. 

[marcspaz]

1 hour ago, Lscott said:

Thinking about it I’m surprised that nobody came looking for you after a day not reporting back in. At least you didn’t mention it.

 

Eh... no one was looking for any of us.  Honestly, back then it was common for me and a few friends to vanish for days or even weeks at a time while we were partying.  Two days was not a red flag.  These days, if grandpa is gone for more than 2 hours, my phone is ringing because the babies want to know when I'll be back.  LOL

[Sshannon]

4 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I understand your perspective.  As an SAR person, GMRS would not be part of your plan. I'm glad. 

But I don't see that as being the perspective of the question.  I see the question as being from the perspective of the average GMRS user, not someone who's already involved in emergency response.  We don't go towards emergencies like emergency response people. Emergencies happen to us when we least expect them.  Nearly always we would be calling 911 on our cell phones for an emergency, but what if we don't have cell service?  Because we are GMRS owners/users, that might be the only communications tool we have available.  So, from the perspective of someone who has an emergency or stumbles into an emergency and only happens to have a GMRS radio, how do we use it effectively? This is an area where you professionals could help us neophytes.

And I guess I should also add, what if we are sitting at home when an emergency call comes in on GMRS.  What should we have prepared in order to be effective.

[Sshannon]

1 hour ago, marcspaz said:

I'm going to throw this out there. I did about a year ago and it was not well received, but I hope this audience is a bit more open-minded. 

Just my own personal opinion, the best solution that has zero reliance on any underlying system is 40-meter Amateur radio.  There are extremely lightweight, compact, battery powered radios. You can get a small foldable/roll-up solar kit for unlimited use. The antenna is just a piece of wire that only need to be a few feet off the ground.  The best part is, depending on how high you make the antenna, you can talk everywhere from 1 to 10,000 miles.  You are going to get help day or night and can actually talk to someone for health and welfare as well as status updates. 

I know we're a GMRS forum and there is some good advice on the satcom stuff, too... but I feel like they have dependencies that are failure points. 

I have been very interested in something like the Icom IC705 or the Elecraft KX2 or 3 for just such use.

[marcspaz]

14 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

And I guess I should also add, what if we are sitting at home when an emergency call comes in on GMRS.  What should we have prepared in order to be effective.

 

The number one rule of emergency communications is, the command center should never be in the affected area.  If you are in the affected area, you need to have a radio relay system established to get the message to the appropriate logistics or CnC staffer inside or outside the affected area, to send help.

 

So, if you are outside the impacted area, get the person's name, what the emergency is, where they are (to the best they can say).  Basically the 5 W's.  And then you or someone right next to you calls 911 and relays that information.

 

If you are in the affected area, you gather all of the aforementioned information and then relay it through whatever stations needed or direct to CnC, logistics, or whatever unit has been established to respond to the type of emergency being experienced.  If you are at an event that is just starting, you will likely be relaying that information directly to Incident Command. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

I have been very interested in something like the Icom IC705 or the Elecraft KX2 or 3 for just such use.

 

Yes!  Exactly!  Both fantastic radios.  I am partial to the Icom, but you can't go wrong with either.

[Lscott]

18 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

I have been very interested in something like the Icom IC705 or the Elecraft KX2 or 3 for just such use.

Have you looked at the FT818?

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ft-818

 

[haneysa]

This summer my area was hit by a large wildfire. I am the Emergency Communication Specialist for my LDS Ward. I operate a GMRS repeater. At the time, it was located on my barn, so not at a high elevation relative to the rest of the area. We used GMRS to coordinate evacuations, share updates from various sources of info, and to coordinate needs and resources. One other use was for monitoring the progress of our overnight looter patrols. For most of the people directly effected by the fire/evacuation orders, cell phones were still operational, however, the radios allowed for sharing info to a large group, and not having to use a phone tree or  text msg tree.  We now use the GroupMe app as well as radios during our weekly nets. 

[Sshannon]

26 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Have you looked at the FT818?

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ft-818

 

No, but I sure will.  Thanks!

[tweiss3]

9 hours ago, marcspaz said:

Just my own personal opinion, the best solution that has zero reliance on any underlying system is 40-meter Amateur radio.  There are extremely lightweight, compact, battery powered radios. You can get a small foldable/roll-up solar kit for unlimited use. The antenna is just a piece of wire that only need to be a few feet off the ground.  The best part is, depending on how high you make the antenna, you can talk everywhere from 1 to 10,000 miles.  You are going to get help day or night and can actually talk to someone for health and welfare as well as status updates. 

I do have a go-kit radio that I use for hiking and doing parks on the air (6M,2M & 440 while in motion), but I also have EFHW in the bag, one for 40/20 only, and one that will do 10-80. For NVIS (which will get you closer contacts) anywhere around 10' above ground will work, but should be less than 30' in the air. That being said, I have worked Utah, Spain & England on 5W with a vertical on the car roof.

7 hours ago, Sshannon said:

I have been very interested in something like the Icom IC705 or the Elecraft KX2 or 3 for just such use.

The Elecraft are nice, but they are a bit pricy for a bag radio. I know quite a few guys that use them, but they are real points guys doing QPR on CW only. Depending on how you are planning on using it outside of emmcom, The 705 or FT818 will both be great. Both come with their own internal batteries, and can work with an external battery or power source. 705 will go up to 10W on external power, 818 only has 6W. 705 will require you get your own antenna for even 2m use, where the 818 can be used out of the box on 6m/2m/70cm with the included antenna. I have an 817 with a handful of accessories, and for what I paid for it as a used package, I have zero complaints, but if I were to buy another low power HF radio, it would be the 705. 

7 hours ago, Lscott said:

Have you looked at the FT818?

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ft-818

 

I still recommend it is a wonderful radio. 

[Sshannon]

33 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

I do have a go-kit radio that I use for hiking and doing parks on the air (6M,2M & 440 while in motion), but I also have EFHW in the bag, one for 40/20 only, and one that will do 10-80. For NVIS (which will get you closer contacts) anywhere around 10' above ground will work, but should be less than 30' in the air. That being said, I have worked Utah, Spain & England on 5W with a vertical on the car roof.

The Elecraft are nice, but they are a bit pricy for a bag radio. I know quite a few guys that use them, but they are real points guys doing QPR on CW only. Depending on how you are planning on using it outside of emmcom, The 705 or FT818 will both be great. Both come with their own internal batteries, and can work with an external battery or power source. 705 will go up to 10W on external power, 818 only has 6W. 705 will require you get your own antenna for even 2m use, where the 818 can be used out of the box on 6m/2m/70cm with the included antenna. I have an 817 with a handful of accessories, and for what I paid for it as a used package, I have zero complaints, but if I were to buy another low power HF radio, it would be the 705. 

I still recommend it is a wonderful radio. 

That’s great information.  I am not terribly interested in contesting (I think - I’m still a very new ham) but I am interested in things that lend themselves to medium distance communications and possibly someday long distance.  I would like your post, but I’ve exceeded my like limit and the like clock doesn’t reset until later today, apparently. 

[PACNWComms]

8 hours ago, Lscott said:

Have you looked at the FT818?

I have had a Yaesu FT-817ND for many years for this exact purpose. This series of radio has been great over the years. Although, I am also looking at a Yaesu FT-991A for a QRM rig, and have several friends that have bought them in the past year. 

[Lscott]

33 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

That’s great information.  I am not terribly interested in contesting (I think - I’m still a very new ham) but I am interested in things that lend themselves to medium distance communications and possibly someday long distance.  I would like your post, but I’ve exceeded my like limit and the like clock doesn’t reset until later today, apparently. 

I have the original FT-817 version. It's modifier for expanded frequency coverage. 

I carried it around for a while out on the road for company business many years back. I would ask for a hotel room on the top floor if possible. At the time all I had was a Tech Class license so my contacts were sort of local but made some decent ones on 2 meter sideband out from 50 to 80 miles at times. I used a small Ho_loop mounted on a camera tripod, short length of RG-58 coax using BNC connectors.

https://www.m2inc.com/FG2MHOLOOP

For 6 meters I had a telescoping whip, like on the old TV rabbit ear antennas, mounted on a plate with wire radials for a ground plane. The photo shows a Comet UHV-4 quad band antenna installed on the plate. I have several different length wires for the ground radials depending on the band being used.

https://cometantenna.com/amateur-radio/mobile-antennas/ma-multi-band-hfvhfuhf/

The main negative point with the FT-817 and 818 is the tuning range. It won't go above 154 MHz so no NOAA weather RX.

[bobthetj03]

I live in a bit of a unique geographic location. Basically a fish bowl, as I joke about to some. It's a large lake with mountains surrounding the lake. Only way in or out is over a mountain pass. A good portion of the county is national forest or BLM land. The past 5-7 years has been rough, as we have experienced devastating wild fires pretty much every summer. As a result of this, some amateur radio operators have developed alert nets in and around the surrounding mountain areas. This alert net has recently included GMRS. a small group of Hams have established repeaters on various mountain top regions of the county. Being new to the radio hobby, and GMRS, I have developed a working relationship with some fellow Hams, who are also GMRS operators, and have added an alert net for a portion of the county for coverage. We hold a net once a week to develop awareness and practice coms. During the summer months we monitor the county for smoke and fire alerts. It has come in handy a few times over the past few years. We also get PSPS outages during the fire season, so cell tower operations can be spotty, so having GMRS and Ham for backup has be invaluable. Not everyone wants to spend the time or money getting a Ham or GMRS license, so organizing a neighborhood and handing out cheap FRS radios has been helpful. They organize neighborhood groups, then have the non-licensed users on FRS relay check in's to a group leader that is licensed, who then can relay that via the repeaters. It's a good exercise, and brings neighborhood folks closer together as an effective team.