Strange happenings...

[Muzic2Me]

My GMRS HT monitors only, 70cm and i have the listed receive tone for a freq in for a week and it worked fine. Over the weekend something has changed. It does not receive with that tone from that repeater in now. So, I have scanned-tone and its a diff. Rx tone. Now I can hear with the new RxTone. asked someone else to try using the original tone that I had previously used and it works on theirs......Any reason.did my stuff break a leg.?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Muzic2Me

[mbrun]

The quality of decoding in a given radio can be an issue, as can the quality/accuracy of encoding by the transmitter. The quality/strength of signal you receive can play into this also. I learned long ago that some CTCSS and DCS codes work better (are more reliable) than others, but I do not have the research to back that up. I suspect the commercial radio companies like Motorola have the data to substantiate this.

Over the last couple of years I have experienced similar issues with a couple of weak amateur radio repeaters where it seemed that one day one code was required and on a different day another code was required. I doubted the codes changed. In one particular test I did, I found was it was just one of my radios having difficultly decoding those particular repeaters. I do not have the equipment to accurately determine the accuracy of the tone being sent out, so it is hard to validate how accurate the Tx code really is. At present, I am inclined to blame weak signal and less than optimal Rx decoding.

Perhaps other will have more to share.

[MichaelLAX]

Delete the tone for receiving 

unless there are two repeaters using the same output frequency within your reception zone, there is no need for you to use a receiving tone. 

[Muzic2Me]

I agree. My reasoning for kinda asking was if I need to send this back for any type of repair bc it’s not working properly. I guess I could check others, but that was truly the only one I actually getting to monitor. Thanks on the info also. Just a head scratcher 

[MichaelLAX]

Did you tell us which model you are using?

[Muzic2Me]

Wouxon kg-935g

[Citizen]

14 hours ago, MichaelLAX said:

Delete the tone for receiving 

unless there are two repeaters using the same output frequency within your reception zone, there is no need for you to use a receiving tone. 

Agree with MichaelLAX, temporarily delete the receive tone and test.  Reason for only temporarily deleting the tone; in addition to a second repeater, there could also be simplex traffic from kiddos down the street on that channel.

...

[Lscott]

21 minutes ago, Citizen said:

Agree with MichaelLAX, temporarily delete the receive tone and test.  Reason for only temporarily deleting the tone; in addition to a second repeater, there could also be simplex traffic from kiddos down the street on that channel.

...

As a general procedure I don't use RX tones, including with repeaters, except in VERY rare cases. If you're open to hearing all traffic on the frequency mysterious interference may turn out to be simply other activity on the frequency you didn't hear due to the tone being used.

[MichaelLAX]

20 hours ago, Muzic2Me said:

My GMRS HT monitors only, 70cm and i have the listed receive tone for a freq in for a week and it worked fine. Over the weekend something has changed. It does not receive with that tone from that repeater in now. So, I have scanned-tone and its a diff. Rx tone. Now I can hear with the new RxTone. asked someone else to try using the original tone that I had previously used and it works on theirs......Any reason.did my stuff break a leg.?

On 1/15/2022 at 12:10 PM, Muzic2Me said:

I have always been the " I want to know how it works" and not "just click here, turn up the volume and your good to go" type at anything. It makes me understand better, but sometimes a frustration too. lol.  

Getting an answer to your problem is included in your membership fee; wanting to know "how it works" will cost you extra! 

Few facts, broad descriptions of your happening, so let me try to restate what I think you are asking, so that I can better answer your question:

You have your Wouxun KG-935G set to monitor (receive) an Amateur Radio Ham repeater in the 70 cm band with a tone set for receive (Tone A).

You could consistently hear this repeater for one week.

Suddenly, last weekend, you could no longer hear the Ham repeater, so you changed your receive tone to a different tone (Tone B ) and now you can hear this repeater again.

You asked a friend to monitor this 70 cm repeater frequency with Tone A and they report that they can hear this Ham repeater.

Possible reasons for this result (I am assuming there is no hardware problem with your 935):

1) The administrators of this repeater changed their tone to receive their repeater to Tone B; and then afterwards added back Tone A as well.

2) There are two Ham repeaters on this 70 cm frequency and your friend can only hear the one that uses Tone A and coincidentally when you listen, only the Tone B repeater is transmitting.

In any event, just eliminate any tone frequency to receive, which will allow you to receive any and all transmissions within your range on that frequency (repeater output and/or simplex) and report back your results.

[Muzic2Me]

You are correct. And yes, I can hear the same as channel without any tone.

[Muzic2Me]

So possible hardware issue if I’m using 1 tone he’s using another and we hear the same channel?

[MichaelLAX]

1 hour ago, Muzic2Me said:

So possible hardware issue if I’m using 1 tone he’s using another and we hear the same channel?

Anythings possible with the failure of hardware, but I think unlikely.

What are the details of the repeater you are hearing? name, freq, tone, etc.

[Muzic2Me]

Shinall Mountain - N5CG

Little Rock, AR

Repeater ID: 05-179

 

 

 

Downlink:	443.20000
Uplink:	448.20000
Offset:	+5.0 MHz
Uplink Tone:	114.8
DMR Enabled
Color Code:	1
DMR ID:	31052
County:	Pulaski
Call:	N5CG
Use:	OPEN
Op Status:	On-Air

[MichaelLAX]

2 hours ago, Muzic2Me said:

So possible hardware issue if I’m using 1 tone he’s using another and we hear the same channel?

What is the 2nd tone?

Where are you located in respect to this repeater?

[Muzic2Me]

34 minutes ago, MichaelLAX said:

What is the 2nd tone?

Where are you located in respect to this repeater?

If you're referring to the 2nd tone as the one that works for me, it is 151.4. I do not see any other tones for this repeater, other than the one listed on the directory.   I am located NE away from the repeater. roughly 30 miles give or take

[Muzic2Me]

443.2000

+5 MHz

CC1 114.8

Little Rock, Shinall Mountain

Pulaski

N5CG

OPEN

FM AllStar DMR.  Here is all it lists for extra info

[Muzic2Me]

Just now, Muzic2Me said:

443.2000

+5 MHz

CC1 114.8

Little Rock, Shinall Mountain

Pulaski

N5CG

OPEN

FM AllStar DMR.  Here is all it lists for extra info

 

Just now, Muzic2Me said:

443.2000

+5 MHz

CC1 114.8

Little Rock, Shinall Mountain

Pulaski

N5CG

OPEN

FM AllStar DMR.  Here is all it lists for extra info

It seems to work when 151.4 is the Rx ctcss. I do understand removing the Ctcss Rx, but i think I am trying to see, like I said if i have an issue now. Thats all. Thanks for the head scratching.

[SteveShannon]

3 minutes ago, Muzic2Me said:

 

It seems to work when 151.4 is the Rx ctcss. I do understand removing the Ctcss Rx, but i think I am trying to see, like I said if i have an issue now. Thats all. Thanks for the head scratching.

That repeater is shown as having an uplink tone, but not a downlink tone.

https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?state_id=05&ID=179

[Muzic2Me]

16 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

That repeater is shown as having an uplink tone, but not a downlink tone.

https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/details.php?state_id=05&ID=179

Would that be the Tx code(uplink)?  And does not require a "Rx tone? I'm new so forgive me, but certainly an enjoying learning the massive amounts of theory and information that goes along with. this has been a head scratcher for me...lol

[SteveShannon]

6 minutes ago, Muzic2Me said:

Would that be the Tx code(uplink)?  And does not require a "Rx tone? I'm new so forgive me, but certainly an enjoying learning the massive amounts of theory and information that goes along with. this has been a head scratcher for me...lol

Yes, uplink tones control access to the repeater.  Downlink tones limit interference on your receiver.

The wiki on Repeaterbook is quite useful.  Here's how it defines "uplink tones" - https://www.repeaterbook.com/wiki/doku.php?id=uplink_tone

This leaves me wondering how both you and your friend are able to receive from the repeater if you have receive tones selected.

[Muzic2Me]

Sshannon...I have no clue. I thought my hardware was "out of calibration" to put it in my words for the Rx tone. Then he checked his, I was not there, but he said his was opening at 114.8. So that's when I had no clue. 443.200/448.200  +5   114.8.   Maybe this is one I just bury and move on to the next head scratching experience.... I can/did put in a receive of 151.4 and could hear the same peeps as when I entered no tone.  

[SteveShannon]

12 minutes ago, Muzic2Me said:

Sshannon...I have no clue. I thought my hardware was "out of calibration" to put it in my words for the Rx tone. Then he checked his, I was not there, but he said his was opening at 114.8. So that's when I had no clue. 443.200/448.200  +5   114.8.   Maybe this is one I just bury and move on to the next head scratching experience.... I can/did put in a receive of 151.4 and could hear the same peeps as when I entered no tone.  

It looks like they have a net on Tuesday nights at 2000.  You might listen in on that to see what they say.  I'm not much help, I'm afraid. Sorry about that.

[mbrun]

@Music2Me one thing you can do is to check your radio against another radio. If I understand correctly, your key concern is determining if you have a defective radio, and if so, you want to be proactive in getting it replaced. Does this sum it up?

Suggestion:

Get your hands on another current generation radio (same model or higher quality) that you can use as a test transmitter source. Set this Tx radio to a frequency/channel you are authorized to operate on that is shared with your 935G. Set your receive radio to the same frequency. Test every CTCSS and DCS code on your transmit radio. Using your receive radio, scan for the codes that your transmitter is sending. Scan upwards and downwards to confirm the receiver stops reliably on the expected code. Start your test by using the same two codes that experienced your 935G picking up the 70cm repeater with. Then work through all the rest.

So that you don’t burn out your test Tx radio, set its power to low.
If you have a dummy load available, hook the Tx radio to the dummy load instead of an antenna. Doing this will still give your Rx radio a good usable signal, but at a level that simulates more real-world levels. As long as you are seeing 50% or more on the meter of your Rx radio you should be good to go.

Keep track of which codes are reliably caught when scanning up and down and which ones are unreliable. If you end up with a high percentage of repeatable failures, then you may have found a justification for requesting a replacement, or for returning the radio and purchasing a different model.

I hope this idea helps.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[Muzic2Me]

19 minutes ago, mbrun said:

@Music2Me one thing you can do is to check your radio against another radio. If I understand correctly, your key concern is determining if you have a defective radio, and if so, you want to be proactive in getting it replaced. Does this sum it up?

Suggestion:

Get your hands on another current generation radio (same model or higher quality) that you can use as a test transmitter source. Set this Tx radio to a frequency/channel you are authorized to operate on that is shared with your 935G. Set your receive radio to the same frequency. Test every CTCSS and DCS code on your transmit radio. Using your receive radio, scan for the codes that your transmitter is sending. Scan upwards and downwards to confirm the receiver stops reliably on the expected code. Start your test by using the same two codes that experienced your 935G picking up the 70cm repeater with. Then work through all the rest.

So that you don’t burn out your test Tx radio, set its power to low.
If you have a dummy load available, hook the Tx radio to the dummy load instead of an antenna. Doing this will still give your Rx radio a good usable signal, but at a level that simulates more real-world levels. As long as you are seeing 50% or more on the meter of your Rx radio you should be good to go.

Keep track of which codes are reliably caught when scanning up and down and which ones are unreliable. If you end up with a high percentage of repeatable failures, then you may have found a justification for requesting a replacement, or for returning the radio and purchasing a different model.

I hope this idea helps.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

Mbrun.....Yes, that is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I do have another HT.  That sounds like a great idea. I do not know why I did not even think of that. I was so focused on this repeater and code, I guess. I will do that now and keep you'll posted. Thanks million. and thanks to all that were pitching ideas and checks for me also. Great community on here!!

[Muzic2Me]

I have not checked every tone, but I did tone-scan about 10 transmitting tones; especially the one that wasn't picking up from the repeater. These of course were on GMRS simplex on low power. The daughter is getting some great experience. She did well, helping me out!!  call sign and all. I will check even more tomorrow. I even tried both channels. KG-935 has dual channels.  I am wondering, since this radio is a GMRS Tx/Rx only, if something is going on when it's in the VFO mode when I'm Rx on the 70cm band when this is happening. Unfortunately, my other HT's are just some Midland 1000's, so I can't check that out on them. Too bad I wasn't able to key up those guys to ask. Guess it is time to go get some HAM. I was even wondering if there was another repeater out there with that 151.4 Rx tone on same Freq out there that wasn't listed.  Shout out again for all help with me. Thanks everyone.

[MichaelLAX]

While I was out at an appointment, looks like you got some great responses!