gmrs linking legal now ?

[WQBU369]

hello all , been a while since i last logged in , my question i when did linking become legal, i have repeater ner me with local cht nd one guy is in CA. is this new in the rules ? just wondering

[zap]

The rules don't say you can't link GMRS systems together. They just say interconnection through the Switched Public Telephone Network is not permitted. They also state other services cannot be linked into GMRS.

 

When the rules were written VOIP linking was not around and GMRS was more of a family business band.

[WQBU369]

so youre saying its legal and where would i find these links to get on other repeaters, they arent listed in echolink are they ? i havent checked in a while but i never seen them listed there

[zap]

Echolink is a service for amateur radio operators. You won't find anything GMRS related on there. What a lot of guys are doing is using the Allstar download and then stripping the Allstar connectivity (leaving just the Asterisk 1.4.23-pre program) and then linking from there.

 

Some are using NXU's or other ROIP gateways.

[WQBU369]

lol....yea i know what echolink is......wasnt sure if they started allowing gmrs in there, i know of tleast one link for ,cb linked to ham repeater believe it or not but i will check out these other sites you sent me, ive had up  repeater for over 10 yers now at my house and know there was never any of this stuff allowed, wasnt sure if rules changed after i heard these other system in the area...ok thanks

[zap]

Most GMRS repeaters are going to be private links. Not much networked like amateur radio setups.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve]

i'd like to mess around with linking a repeter some day.  it wold be great if there was a box you could build that you litterally bring anywhere, turn on, it connects over wifi or ethernet from whereever it is, and then has a built in radio that becomes the 2nd remote repeater site.  This way, if you wanted to provide radio coverage in an area that has none during an event, you could just roll this preconfigured box up, and plug in and power up, then you're linked to home base.    of course, the internet or network has to be up and running for this.

[quarterwave]

It's always been "allowed" so to speak, there just hasn't been an "allowed", feasible way to do it. Interconnection to PSTN refers to "telephone interconnects" or "patches" which run through switched telephone services, as in it has to be dialed to connect. Use of leased lines to remote to, or connect repeaters has always been "legal" but you won't find operators who want to pay good money for a leased line just to connect GMRS repeaters. In-band linking isn't ideal, not enough seperation, so that leaves voip, which, as mentioned, wasn't even around when these rules were written. 

[Guest spd641]

lol....yea i know what echolink is......wasnt sure if they started allowing gmrs in there, i know of tleast one link for ,cb linked to ham repeater believe it or not but i will check out these other sites you sent me, ive had up  repeater for over 10 yers now at my house and know there was never any of this stuff allowed, wasnt sure if rules changed after i heard these other system in the area...ok thanks

CB linked to ham is in no way legal...William

[pnannery]

Email rich wqej577 if you want linking info

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[ProJoeGo]

I'm real new to the GMRS radio's. I have my call sign, I'm a member of mygmrs.com site. I just don't know how to get my Midland MXT400 hooked up to whatever I need in order to talk into the airwaves.. Can somebody please help me?

[BoxCar]

There are several conversations (threads) regarding the Midland MXT400 and getting it to talk with other radios. One of the first items will be learning what you have factory programmed in the radio. Some of our Midland specialists will be able to help you better.

[wp4ky]

My GMRS is in violation of Part 95 here are the FCC rules.

Part 

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745. 

Using All-star Link in GMRS is ilegal under part 95.349

[Sshannon]

No. MyGMRS uses IP networks (that’s the IP in VOIP), not POTS. This claim has been discussed and discarded numerous times.

[Radioguy7268]

If you think it is illegal, then don't do it.

If you are saying that since All-Star is based on *asterisk (which is an IP based PBX) it fails because it's using telephony to connect repeaters - then please tell us how many people have been cited by the FCC for using "ilegal" All-Star.

I think you will find the number of citations is Zero or less.

By the way, nice first post.

[OffRoaderX]

4 hours ago, wp4ky said:

My GMRS is in violation of Part 95 here are the FCC rules.

Using All-star Link in GMRS is ilegal under part 95.349

Another "Expert"....and you guys think I make this stuff up.. I didnt even mention that he only has a ham callsign..

[wayoverthere]

3 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

Another "Expert"....and you guys think I make this stuff up.. I didnt even mention that he only has a ham callsign..

Looks like one application was dismissed, but the second granted a couple years ago...the gmrs call sign he signed up with lines up with the ham one of his username.

Certainly quick to jump on his soapbox though...stellar first impression.

[WRQD721]

On 2/8/2015 at 11:44 PM, Steve said:

i'd like to mess around with linking a repeter some day.  it wold be great if there was a box you could build that you litterally bring anywhere, turn on, it connects over wifi or ethernet from whereever it is, and then has a built in radio that becomes the 2nd remote repeater site.  This way, if you wanted to provide radio coverage in an area that has none during an event, you could just roll this preconfigured box up, and plug in and power up, then you're linked to home base.    of course, the internet or network has to be up and running for this.

There is, it's an AllStar node with a built in transceiver. We run it through our phones mobile hotspot. Just need one at the repeater as well.
 

[WRQE813]

I'm quite new to all of this, and just trying to learn & understand.  It's this statement on the FCC website that has me questioning "linking" for anything other than remote control of the repeater...

[JeepCrawler98]

4 hours ago, WRQE813 said:

I'm quite new to all of this, and just trying to learn & understand.  It's this statement on the FCC website that has me questioning "linking" for anything other than remote control of the repeater...

Good catch on this informal and informational page; the phrase "or any other network" showed up in November of last year per archive.org well after other sources in the FCC had stated that it's fine and well after linking had already become prevalent on GMRS based on that correspondence and the implementation of the 2017 rules. This 'minor' addition in my opinion is in conflict with prior correspondence from the FCC before this date, the current CFR (which of course represent the actual rules: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95?toc=1), upon which the GMRS community have already acted (and invested) in good faith.

Perhaps they're looking to discourage it, but in my opinion it still remains legal regardless of whatever the official sentiment may be especially since they already stated its fine in the past and the current rules are consistent with that. Perhaps someone inside the FCC had an "oh wait not like that" moment after evaluating impacts of the 2017 rule change, since GMRS absolutely exploded in popularity during COVID. Still - the rules are the rules and are the only thing that governs the service. The only thing that would concern me on the issue is any future proposed rulemaking changes or amendments (which I believe require a public comment period?)

Edited August 23, 2022 by JeepCrawler98

[WRQE813]

16 hours ago, JeepCrawler98 said:

Good catch on this informal and informational page; the phrase "or any other network" showed up in November of last year per archive.org well after other sources in the FCC had stated that it's fine and well after linking had already become prevalent on GMRS based on that correspondence and the implementation of the 2017 rules. This 'minor' addition in my opinion is in conflict with prior correspondence from the FCC before this date, the current CFR (which of course represent the actual rules: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95?toc=1), upon which the GMRS community have already acted (and invested) in good faith.

Perhaps they're looking to discourage it, but in my opinion it still remains legal regardless of whatever the official sentiment may be especially since they already stated its fine in the past and the current rules are consistent with that. Perhaps someone inside the FCC had an "oh wait not like that" moment after evaluating impacts of the 2017 rule change, since GMRS absolutely exploded in popularity during COVID. Still - the rules are the rules and are the only thing that governs the service. The only thing that would concern me on the issue is any future proposed rulemaking changes or amendments (which I believe require a public comment period?)

Yeah, I've seen the various FCC letters / emails from 2017.  But when I look at the current FCC site and the current FCC rules I'm unable to find anything supporting / allowing the linking / networking of repeaters...what I do find is quite the opposite.

So, obviously, making telephone calls via repeater is not allowed.  But as the rules are currently written, the only thing that is allowed to be done via network is remote control.  I've looked through the entire Part 95, did keyword searches for network, link, repeater, interconnect just to see if I missed anything.  So...what am I missing?  At the moment, the statement on the FCC website and the FCC Part 95 rules appear to be in harmony, unless there is something in the rules I'm missing.

[gortex2]

I personally wish this were the case but sure there is someplace that counters the text you screen captured. To me linking has ruined GMRS but that is only my opinion. 

[Sshannon]

The wording specifically allows “operation by remote control.”  When you are transmitting on a station, you are operating that station.  

When you press your “push to talk” switch on your handheld and speak, your radio signal enters the receiver of the repeater, breaks squelch, and causes the transmitter of the repeater to re-transmit your signal.  You have operated the repeater.

95.1749 specifically allows you to do that using a network connection: 

§ 95.1749 GMRS network connection.

Operation of a GMRS station with a telephone connection is prohibited, as in § 95.349. GMRS repeater, base and fixed stations, however, may be connected to the public switched network or other networks for the sole purpose of operation by remote control pursuant to § 95.1745.

 

[gortex2]

All how you read the rules. But I digress. Years ago we had a GE Master II for our GMRS repeater. It had an RTL (Radio Tie Line) from the tower site to our house and had a "DC" Remote. The Remote allowed my parents to call on the repeater and answer. By the rules at the time it met "remote control" via telephone line, but was not a PTSN network. It was basically a pair of copper wires from one location to another. Now its all done over IP and is the same basic concept. The biggest issue with linking is the ability to shut down the repeater remotely. When everything is working all is good. When its not its and issue. In the past one of the ham groups had a repeater linked with all star. Something on the Pi broke and the repeater was keyed solid for 2 days until someone went and unplugged it. 

Anyway my repeaters are connected via microwave links and comparators. Even though its not simulcast its all run thru a digitac and votes best audio and sends that over the air. Much cleaner than IP linking in the hobby world.

[JeepCrawler98]

3 hours ago, WRQE813 said:

Yeah, I've seen the various FCC letters / emails from 2017.  But when I look at the current FCC site and the current FCC rules I'm unable to find anything supporting / allowing the linking / networking of repeaters...what I do find is quite the opposite.

So, obviously, making telephone calls via repeater is not allowed.  But as the rules are currently written, the only thing that is allowed to be done via network is remote control.  I've looked through the entire Part 95, did keyword searches for network, link, repeater, interconnect just to see if I missed anything.  So...what am I missing?  At the moment, the statement on the FCC website and the FCC Part 95 rules appear to be in harmony, unless there is something in the rules I'm missing.

This argument has already been had ad nauseum, and I'm surprised nobody has brought up §95.333 nor §95.1733(8) yet in this thread. As others have stated it's all in how you read the rules; the two schools that perpetuate this argument are "if it doesn't say it's illegal, is it legal" vs "it's only legal if it explicitly says it is legal," the latter of which would require a rule for every possible circumstance in the service. And that's of course addressing IP based linking, which in-band RF linking within GMRS is fairly easy to accomplish too (but would add further congestion)

If the FCC were to pass a rule that states "GMRS operators shall not beat live horses," would we still permit ourselves to beat this dead one?

Edited August 24, 2022 by JeepCrawler98