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Community Repeater or Closed Repeater "that is the question"


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#1 Corey

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:05 AM

I had posted this as a response in another forum topic and wanted to see what others thought. How do you run your system and have you had any issues running it the way you do?

 

I decided long ago to list my repeaters as open with no CW ID running and stating "It is your responsibility to ID as required by FCC rules and regulations". I figure what good is a repeater if it sits idle most of the time, I built my last machine to cover a huge recreational area and I want people to use it. Unless I get complaints I wont change a thing. I have listened to people tell me about repeaters that sat Idle 95% of the time until they failed, what a waste of money. I rather see it burn up knowing it served people well then die a slow painful death idle in a shack.


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Just My $.02

 

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#2 n4gix

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 09:34 AM

Although I still don't have it on the air yet Cory, there would be no point to me putting it up at all unless I allow any licensed GMRS user to use it...

 

I may be old (67) but I'm not yet to the point of talking to myself, and even if I were I'd still not need a repeater to do that! :lol:


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#3 Corey

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 10:51 AM

The ones that get me are the guys that run complex repeater controllers, several different access tones, voice recorders and require permission. Then they wonder why nobody uses the repeater! I for one would not use a system that I know is recording my conversations, whats the point. It's a well known fact that you can cry to the FCC about GMRS violations till you turn blue without a response, why record people?

 

I am a firm believer in matching DPL in and out, no big brother and open access to all licensed GMRS users.


Just My $.02

 

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#4 ScottieMack

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 11:33 AM

Yes it sucks that most repeaters or private or require access.  But its their time and money that went into putting the repeater up, so they ultimately make the rules. 

 

The mismatching of PL or DPL tones is done usually to slow down unauthorized users.  If you ever visit NYC, you will see why its done that way.

 

Some onwers only request permission, so this way they have an idea who is using it, and can keep track of how many users use the machine. 


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#5 Corey

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:11 PM

I can only imagine how bad it is in NYC, I read on boards all over that its a circus on GMRS....


Just My $.02

 

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#6 ScottieMack

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:27 PM

I can only imagine how bad it is in NYC, I read on boards all over that its a circus on GMRS....

I live close to NYC, about 60 miles north. At work if I go up to the roof, I can hear almost every high profile repeater in NYC.

Also with being so close we occasionally get one of the main jammers on out ham repeaters located on Mount Beacon, which has a clear shot to NYC.

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#7 zap

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 12:32 PM

My mentality has been changed over the last 6 months or so. I went from having private portable GMRS repeaters to not having any as I really no longer have the need for the service on a family basis (now it is simply another go to and talk service for me) as I've been moving everything family/business related over to VHF P25 primary and DMR UHF secondary. So now if I'm going to put up a GMRS repeater...I'll put up an open repeater and just leave it as is.

 

Scott, nice to see the Saber love (even this morning on Ops Who Use). For those who don't know, Scott is a Saber whore who has probably forgotten more about the Saber than most of us will ever know.


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#8 ASRM

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 06:28 PM

We run ours as permission based, I would like to know who wants on the network, though we really have hardly any GMRS users on the air. We have 4 other repeaters in my area, all are dead quite, some are open, some are permission based, there is one private repeater.

 

We will use the other repeaters as needed to cover the holes ours doesn't reach. I think my family is the only souls using theirs and ours.

 

As others have stated, it is an investment and as such each person has every right to decide the level of access.

 

If shenanigans started to become a problem I would probably change it to a private and use either MDC or pop for a commercial license (we run a non-profit rescue) and do as Zap and move towards DMR or P25...



#9 JohnE

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 08:15 PM

I can only imagine how bad it is in NYC, I read on boards all over that its a circus on GMRS....

you have no idea. see some of my recent threads


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#10 ScottieMack

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 01:15 PM

.

 

Scott, nice to see the Saber love (even this morning on Ops Who Use). For those who don't know, Scott is a Saber whore who has probably forgotten more about the Saber than most of us will ever know.

 

I love my Sabers!  The Astro needs to go out for a tuning though.



#11 Logan5

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Posted 10 February 2016 - 04:38 PM

Nice and quiet here in SoFl, I require permission to keep it that way. any licensed users welcome, but let me add your information and call sign to my log first. Simple as that.


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#12 NavyBOFH

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 03:58 PM

My mentality has been changed over the last 6 months or so. I went from having private portable GMRS repeaters to not having any as I really no longer have the need for the service on a family basis (now it is simply another go to and talk service for me) as I've been moving everything family/business related over to VHF P25 primary and DMR UHF secondary. So now if I'm going to put up a GMRS repeater...I'll put up an open repeater and just leave it as is.

 

Scott, nice to see the Saber love (even this morning on Ops Who Use). For those who don't know, Scott is a Saber whore who has probably forgotten more about the Saber than most of us will ever know.

Are you doing all that through a business license? If so, I would love to chat with you about that. My wife and I use GMRS for now, but out here its decently popular and if I put up the repeater I am building it will end up being a community repeater (closed repeaters have issues finding tower space around here by the looks of it). But we want something secure for ourselves - DMR or encrypted P25... still undecided since both have their pro/con sides. However, I have no idea where to start trying to license repeater capable itinerant frequencies - since I don't want to pay a planner and want to be able to take my repeater and move it.



#13 Corey

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:10 AM

Are you doing all that through a business license? If so, I would love to chat with you about that. My wife and I use GMRS for now, but out here its decently popular and if I put up the repeater I am building it will end up being a community repeater (closed repeaters have issues finding tower space around here by the looks of it). But we want something secure for ourselves - DMR or encrypted P25... still undecided since both have their pro/con sides. However, I have no idea where to start trying to license repeater capable itinerant frequencies - since I don't want to pay a planner and want to be able to take my repeater and move it.

 

You will have to pay for FCC Coordination and it is assigned to a location so you would not be able to just move it. I have 3 repeater pairs and it costs about $600 a pair for 10 years. I run my commercial system DMR as the equipment costs less and offers easy multi site connections with an internet connection.


Just My $.02

 

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#14 zap

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:37 AM

You will have to pay for FCC Coordination and it is assigned to a location so you would not be able to just move it. I have 3 repeater pairs and it costs about $600 a pair for 10 years. I run my commercial system DMR as the equipment costs less and offers easy multi site connections with an internet connection.


Depends. There are actually a ton of "itinerant" pairs that don't require coordination but you are still required to have register a location for a fixed site with the commission. The actual licensing fee is $165 if memory serves correct and can be done without a coordinating body (up to 10 frequencies). Most of the additional fees one might be charged by a coordinator are for their time and effort.

Unless you have a good line on used infrastructure (like Quantars) DMR is much cheaper.

I haven't officially switched yet (waiting on the licensing/equipment funds) but I've had my eye on a GME mobile new to the U.S. market for the ranch vehicles.


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#15 ASRM

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 08:38 AM

I love my Sabers!  The Astro needs to go out for a tuning though.

Count another Saber lover, Astro Saber's are my LTL weapon, they are built like a brick.



#16 NavyBOFH

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 05:48 PM

Depends. There are actually a ton of "itinerant" pairs that don't require coordination but you are still required to have register a location for a fixed site with the commission. The actual licensing fee is $165 if memory serves correct and can be done without a coordinating body (up to 10 frequencies). Most of the additional fees one might be charged by a coordinator are for their time and effort.

Unless you have a good line on used infrastructure (like Quantars) DMR is much cheaper.

I haven't officially switched yet (waiting on the licensing/equipment funds) but I've had my eye on a GME mobile new to the U.S. market for the ranch vehicles.


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Between P25 and DMR, the pricing will be identical for what I can get my hands on - Quantars are slowly being replaced out here so I can get my hands on VHF or UHF ones for $1500 or so. Though DMR might be winner instead for the TDMA giving me 2 channels, encryption doesn't need a keyloader, and something like the SLR5700 repeater is SMALL and continuous duty. However - P25 allows me to get XTS5000s with XTVAs and turn them into mobiles in the car with little effort and price in the end... hence my debate.

 

Itinerant was my choice because 1) no coordination needed and 2) allows my repeater to go from my home to my in-laws or the lake house for vacation and back without much effort - allowing my limits to be equipment and not licensing.

 

GME coming to the US huh? That's gonna hopefully be a good option for us.



#17 zap

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 09:33 PM

See my help is that I get Simoco gear at cost...their repeaters are all 100% duty (they don't subscribe to the DMR is not for Public Safety BS Motorola puts out). However, most of the agencies I deal with run P25 on either VHF or 7/800 so it literally is more beneficial to me to have VHF P25 equipment (though dealer cost for a new Simoco P25 repeater is still $10,000).

 

GME has a little micro mobile that is available in either a dash mount or remote mount configuration with a basic HHCH (similar to the SRM9010/SDM610 control heads) that features a 25% rated duty (at full power of 25W), is 36% efficient, and has an IP67 rating on the HHCH (versus IP54 on the comparable Simoco SRM9010).Oh, and it's a P25 radio if you didn't pick up on that. Supposed to be around or under $1000.



#18 NavyBOFH

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 10:13 PM

See my help is that I get Simoco gear at cost...their repeaters are all 100% duty (they don't subscribe to the DMR is not for Public Safety BS Motorola puts out). However, most of the agencies I deal with run P25 on either VHF or 7/800 so it literally is more beneficial to me to have VHF P25 equipment (though dealer cost for a new Simoco P25 repeater is still $10,000).

 

GME has a little micro mobile that is available in either a dash mount or remote mount configuration with a basic HHCH (similar to the SRM9010/SDM610 control heads) that features a 25% rated duty (at full power of 25W), is 36% efficient, and has an IP67 rating on the HHCH (versus IP54 on the comparable Simoco SRM9010).Oh, and it's a P25 radio if you didn't pick up on that. Supposed to be around or under $1000.

I know which one you're talking about - that's going to be an exciting piece to see in person finally.

 

I like P25 since it's more "universally accepted" and in my opinion - audio sounds better as well. I have heard too many DMR systems that sound like Peewee Herman - but that might be my partial hearing loss!

 

I think I was 100% settled on P25 until Vertex's newer EVX revisions brought a better display, MDC signalling for analog, and AES encryption that doesn't need to be bought... and a price under $400 each.



#19 zap

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 04:02 PM

I know which one you're talking about - that's going to be an exciting piece to see in person finally.

I like P25 since it's more "universally accepted" and in my opinion - audio sounds better as well. I have heard too many DMR systems that sound like Peewee Herman - but that might be my partial hearing loss!

I think I was 100% settled on P25 until Vertex's newer EVX revisions brought a better display, MDC signalling for analog, and AES encryption that doesn't need to be bought... and a price under $400 each.


Look up the Tecnet TPD-1400 series. Around $400 as well.


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#20 NavyBOFH

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 04:05 PM

Look up the Tecnet TPD-1400 series. Around $400 as well.


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Are they even out yet? I was following them for a while and once they missed their delivery date I kinda lost hope. But I've heard their equipment is pretty decent for the price.


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