Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 2 votes

GMRS interaction with Law Enforcement

networks repeaters neighborhood watch emergency preparedness

  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 peterdoherty

peterdoherty

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQYI393

Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:05 PM

Are any of the GMRS networks throughout the US have a relationship with local law enforcement?  The ability to communicate emergency information is an obvious advantage of any network, but who is listening or able to react to an emergency call situation.  Are there networks who have approached local authorities and were brushed off? 

 

Just trying to gather information about what some groups may have encountered regarding this topic.

 

Thanks for any and all input.



#2 WQQL573

WQQL573

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQQL573
  • Ham Callsign:KG7NTS

Posted 03 December 2016 - 07:47 PM

I think this is a really important topic.   I'm not sure how to address this with either local Law Enforcement,  or 911 Dispatch centers.   I'm thinking it would be a good topic to bring up with state and county emergency coordinators.  


  • peterdoherty likes this

#3 ASRM

ASRM

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 99 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQSW318

Posted 04 December 2016 - 08:58 AM

I like the idea, but the problem is with the bootleggers that snag onto a repeater, the unlicensed users that don't know radio protocol or a host of other reasons.

 

Do we want a 911 dispatcher monitoring the rag chewer?

 

Having a mutual aid type channel would be a great idea. I know from experience though it's a pretty tough sell.

 

We have a UHF repeater that  30-40 miles at almost full quiet for the sheriff department, I personally have tested it in our county for a couple months, along with the deputies for coverage. It is a near  "perfect" system (I am placing my Part 90 Repeater at the same height and power) and yet we can't get the county to sign off on it and make it official for a mutual aid system. All the departments in the county are on UHF, all have discussed a need to reachout to county and other agencies, ISPERN doesn't allow certain comms that the MA channel would provide.

 

If someone does initiate such a program, I would be VERY interested in how they got it approved.


  • peterdoherty likes this

#4 jimndfw

jimndfw

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQWI959

Posted 04 December 2016 - 01:16 PM

@ peterdohherty

 

 Your ideal, has some good merits, other people has brought up the some concerns, do you really want PSAP to monitor full time the GMRS channel, when people may be talking about what they need at the store, or to pick up little Johnny or Susie at school. Most likely not.

 

A lot of it depends on what your objective is.

 

I would suggest maybe look in to what I have been doing, in my case, my goal is showing the value it would bring in tracking severe thunderstorms, or tornados thru the county or area.  

 

I have spoken with 3 EMA county directors, they open to the idea and have expressed interested in setting up some kind of emergency radio network for non-hams, non- Public Safety people in the county ( AKA GMRS/FRS, and or CB people) to direct report things (such as Storm track information).

 

 A couple of them have considered and spoken about the value of additional resources it could bring, one of them is even considering assist in setting a GMRS repeater, and putting person in to the county EOC during severe storms or tornado.

 

I really think you would find the EMA directors much more receptive to the ideal of setting up some kind communication link to the GMRS Service, then going thru the local / county LEO official's.

 

I hope that helps.


  • peterdoherty likes this

#5 Jones

Jones

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 186 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQYM541
  • Ham Callsign:KB0HAW

Posted 05 December 2016 - 01:01 AM

What we need is some international organization of volunteers that is already recognized for using citizen communications, like CB, GMRS, and Ham radio to assist with official communications when needed.

 

Oh wait, there IS one... http://www.reactintl.org/

 

Mission Statement

We will provide public safety communications to individuals, organizations, and government agencies to save lives, prevent injuries, and give assistance wherever and whenever needed. We will strive to establish a monitoring network of trained volunteer citizen-based communicators using any and all available means to deliver the message.


  • peterdoherty likes this

#6 PastorGary

PastorGary

    Senior Tropical Weather Analyst, TSRC, Gulf Shores, Alabama

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1458 posts
  • LocationMultiple locations in USA seasonally.

Posted 05 December 2016 - 03:32 AM

Good point.  Let me also just place a comprehensive Part 90 line item here for consideration...

 

47CFR90.407:   Emergency Communications >

 

The licensee of any station authorized under this part may, during a period of emergency in which the normal communication facilities are disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood, earthquake or similar disaster, utilize such station for emergency communications in a manner other than that specified in the station authorization or in the rules and regulations governing the operation of such stations. The Commission may at any time order the discontinuance of such special use of the authorized facilities.

 

Now, let's look at the Part 95 line item that is worded in much less specific detail >

 

47CFR95.114:    Managing a GMRS system in an emergency >

 

(a ) The stations in a GMRS system must cease transmitting when the station operator of any station on the same channel is communicating an emergency message (concerning the immediate protection of property or the safety of someone's life).

(b ) If necessary to communicate an emergency message from a station in a GMRS system, the licensee may permit:

(1 ) Anyone to be the station operator (see §95.179); and

(2 ) The station operator to communicate the emergency message to any radio station.

 

_____________________________________________________________________

 

Has anyone ever received a ruling from the Commission regarding section (2 ) above and the words "any radio station" ?


  • peterdoherty likes this
PastorGary -

Weather postings Copyrighted © TSRC, All Rights Reserved

#7 n4gix

n4gix

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 471 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQWU626
  • Ham Callsign:N4GIX

Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:30 AM

What we need is some international organization of volunteers that is already recognized for using citizen communications, like CB, GMRS, and Ham radio to assist with official communications when needed.
 
Oh wait, there IS one... http://www.reactintl.org/

The chief problem with REACT is that they seem to be somewhat moribund these days. For example, the two closest REACT teams to me according to their Locator are DEAD. I've tried numerous times to contact the closest here in Hammond, IN listed, and both the email address and phone number are no longer working.

As for the next closest I checked just now, their website is "Frozen" and there is no response from the email address. :(


  • peterdoherty likes this

#8 peterdoherty

peterdoherty

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQYI393

Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:40 AM

During a community event which usually has police on hand because of crowds and traffic; parades, holiday tree lightings, park concerts etc, local GMRS licensees may be attending the event or could be organized specifically to keep an eye out for any and all emergency situations.

The Community radio group would coordinate frequency and other pertinent info regarding the participants etc to the police authorities.
The best case scenario would be repeater operation so that all calls to the police could be to a control station/dispatch. All calls would be to the police dispatch would then contact the officers Patrolling the event.

This of course requires the complete cooperation of the police. They would have to tune radios to GMRS frequencies. They would have to want to do this.

I interpret the emergency use provisions in the GMRS rules to allow such use.

I suppose the legitimacy of the Community radio group would have a lot to do with whether or not the police would want to partner with them.

Thank you to everyone who has given input.

#9 n4gix

n4gix

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 471 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQWU626
  • Ham Callsign:N4GIX

Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:33 PM

The Community radio group would coordinate frequency and other pertinent info regarding the participants etc to the police authorities.
The best case scenario would be repeater operation so that all calls to the police could be to a control station/dispatch. All calls would be to the police dispatch would then contact the officers Patrolling the event.

The North Shore Emergency Association (NSEA*) has been doing such since it was founded in 1966. At first, it was via CB radio. Around 1989 everything was switched to GMRS. We now have three repeaters in operation, and have one than can be set up mobile if necessary for any special event.

We assign one person as liaison with the police, and filter all reports through that individual. For parade events, we mostly provide communications via liaison personnel assigned to shadow the various parade marshals to keep things coordinated.

* http://www.nsea.com/
  • peterdoherty likes this

#10 SteveC7010

SteveC7010

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 186 posts
  • LocationNorthville, NY in the southern Adirondacks!
  • GMRS Callsign:WQPG808
  • Ham Callsign:KD2IAT

Posted 05 December 2016 - 07:53 PM

The chief problem with REACT is that they seem to be somewhat moribund these days. For example, the two closest REACT teams to me according to their Locator are DEAD. I've tried numerous times to contact the closest here in Hammond, IN listed, and both the email address and phone number are no longer working.

As for the next closest I checked just now, their website is "Frozen" and there is no response from the email address. :(

 

I'm with you on this. REACT peaked in the 80's, and overall, faded away as other methods of communications rose, especially cell phones. It's hard to be "the safety patrol" when everyone has direct contact with 911 now via cellphone.

 

The other issue is outright wackerism. Sorry, guys, but it is the sad fact that all too often, REACT people played wannabee cops instead of sticking to their primary mission. That turned LE off on them long ago. I was a career 911 dispatcher and supervisor from 1976 to 2003, and the dozen or so police agencies that my dispatch center handled wanted nothing to do with REACT based on prior experiences.

 

The rise of the ARES/RACES ham groups pretty much replaced whatever REACT tried to be, but their services are much more aimed at supplemental communications during major incidents and specific events. Our ham club has a room inside the county's EOC. The other valuable service that the club provides is short term event communications for things like 5K races and other community events. They do it well and they stick to their mission. At events like these, there's usually a LE unit close by the command post or one of the other stations. There's just no need for direct communications with 911 in these circumstances.

 

I did some FCC searching and found only 5 current GMRS licenses in our whole county of 56,000 people. I haven't counted amateur licenses, but there's easily 10 to 20 times that number here.

 

Whenever I travel throughout the Adirondacks, I have a radio scanning all the GMRS only channels. Traffic is almost non-existant up here.


  • peterdoherty likes this

Rochester-Monroe County E911 1976 to 2003 - Dispatcher II #7010
Northampton Ambulance - Unit 2829

Tactical Call Sign: Spider Man


#11 peterdoherty

peterdoherty

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQYI393

Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:12 PM

The liaison person sounds like a more practical way of operating. A lot of great info on the NSEA website.
Thanks

#12 n4gix

n4gix

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 471 posts
  • GMRS Callsign:WQWU626
  • Ham Callsign:N4GIX

Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:45 AM

Our ham club has a room inside the county's EOC.

My local ham club (LCARC) meets monthly in the Lake County Indiana EOC also. For my sins, I was elected last month to be the VP/Program Director for 2017. Among my responsibilities I am charged with finding someone to make a presentation on some topic of interest at each monthly meeting. :ph34r:



#13 jwilkers

jwilkers

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • GMRS Callsign:WQWK521
  • Ham Callsign:KD8DVR

Posted 06 December 2016 - 09:50 AM

Good point. Let me also just place a comprehensive Part 90 line item here for consideration...

47CFR90.407: Emergency Communications >

The licensee of any station authorized under this part may, during a period of emergency in which the normal communication facilities are disrupted as a result of hurricane, flood, earthquake or similar disaster, utilize such station for emergency communications in a manner other than that specified in the station authorization or in the rules and regulations governing the operation of such stations. The Commission may at any time order the discontinuance of such special use of the authorized facilities.

Now, let's look at the Part 95 line item that is worded in much less specific detail >

47CFR95.114: Managing a GMRS system in an emergency >

(a ) The stations in a GMRS system must cease transmitting when the station operator of any station on the same channel is communicating an emergency message (concerning the immediate protection of property or the safety of someone's life).
(b ) If necessary to communicate an emergency message from a station in a GMRS system, the licensee may permit:
(1 ) Anyone to be the station operator (see §95.179); and
(2 ) The station operator to communicate the emergency message to any radio station.

_____________________________________________________________________

Has anyone ever received a ruling from the Commission regarding section (2 ) above and the words "any radio station" ?

"Any radio station" under the rule part in which the phrase appears. For part 95, it would be any other part 95 GMRS station. Service rules do not cross services.

AntiSquid Disclaimer: All posted content is personal opinion only and may not imply fact or accusation.

#14 SteveC7010

SteveC7010

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 186 posts
  • LocationNorthville, NY in the southern Adirondacks!
  • GMRS Callsign:WQPG808
  • Ham Callsign:KD2IAT

Posted 06 December 2016 - 10:06 AM

My local ham club (LCARC) meets monthly in the Lake County Indiana EOC also. For my sins, I was elected last month to be the VP/Program Director for 2017. Among my responsibilities I am charged with finding someone to make a presentation on some topic of interest at each monthly meeting. :ph34r:

 

Perhaps I should have used a better word. In addition to meeting at the county EOC every month, the club maintains a shack in a small room that is inside of and part of the EOC. We have a 2M station and an HF one in there.

 

I haven't paid a lot of attention to that part of the club's activities because I have other missions should there be a major incident or worse. I'm a deputy EMS coordinator for the county and the only one with EOC experience and training. All the other deputies and the EMS Coordinator are all fire chiefs so in the even of an actual incident, they're each going to go with their respective agencies. That leaves me to respond to the EOC. The only time I would not go to the EOC is if the incident is in my district or I am the only coordinator available.


Rochester-Monroe County E911 1976 to 2003 - Dispatcher II #7010
Northampton Ambulance - Unit 2829

Tactical Call Sign: Spider Man






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: networks, repeaters, neighborhood watch, emergency preparedness

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users