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How to get pesky disrupter off air?


radio1
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Hi everyone,

 

Recently got my license. Have been listening to my local Long Island repeater on 462.6750MHz for last few months and there is this one annoying person who blocks up the entire channel at times more than half a day simply playing key tones, recently music and rebroadcasting random stuff.  There are veteran users who are super annoyed and it really boggles my mind that this is apparently have been happening for years!

 

Is there nothing anyone can do to stop such non-sense? First of all 462.6750MHz is listed as "Unofficial emergency/traveler assistance channel (PL 141.3)" second it flouts all rules on the book.

 

Wondering if a few local folks can track this offender down by his power output and directional antennas and triangulating his position.

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id record this, in entirety and ship such to the FCC. keep track of dates and times, perhaps a local ham with some DF equipment could locate and then get an address perhaps? if in a car a plate number.... hitting a repeater is going to be tough because you'll be tracking the repeater signal as well. but those are the only two i can come up with, unless you work out a deal with the repeater owner to change the PL tones or work with you????

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even if you did change PL, This interference is intentional and he will just change his radio to another working PL. You will need an address, a name, a car license plate number and or photos for the FCC. You or others must do the investigation and provide as much information to the FCC, The work must be complete for the FCC to even attempt. Even then it is unlikely they will do anything, If it was an illegal business interference you would have better luck with the FCC, since they can issue a fine in excess of $14k. If you have any idea where the interference is coming from, you can find them with a yagi antenna and some attenuators.

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The FCC will accept any submissions made, but will almost certainly simply file it away. They have no resources left with which to take any real action.
 
We have had some folks working for a well-known major corporation using 146.505 simplex for well over two years here in NW Indiana and the FCC's reply to a thoroughly documented and recorded report was just this (paraphrased):

We the FCC do not have the time, money or manpower to go set in the Gary area waiting for some unknown idiot who may or may not key up a radio and do this...

 

This despite the fact that the illegal usage occurs every day of the week for hours on end...

 

...and we even know precisely who they are!

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as N4GIX has said its not going to happen especially in the NYC regional  area. been there done that in the commercial world. only if it interferes w/public safety organization will anything be done.

case and point. there was an interference (moving spur) affecting most of the gmrs inputs in NYC but it was also getting into 2 FD and  set of PD receivers on the other side of the river in NJ. I noticed it around Memorial day last yr and went looking for it w/no real success. in talking to a few of my PS friends in NJ they were having the same problem. it was taken care of by the FCC in January.

this was the result. note the freq's in the report.

 

Federal Communications Commission
Before the
Federal Communications Commission
Washington, D.C. 20554
In the Matter of
)
)
The Friends of the High
Line
)
File No.
: EB-FIELDNER
-17-00023317
Licensee of Station
WQKP916
)
)
NOV No.:
V2017323800
3
New York, Ne
w York
)
NOTICE OF VIOLATION
Released:
January
20, 2017
By the Regional Director, Region One, Enforcement Bureau:
1.
This is a Notice of Violation (Notice) issued pursuant to Section 1.89 of the
Commission’s
rules (Rules)
1
to The Friends of the High Line
, licensee of radio station
WQKP916
in New
York, New York
. Pursuant to Section 1.89(a) of the Rules, issuance of this
Notice
does not preclude the
Enforcement Bureau from further action if warranted, including issuing a Notice of Apparent Liability for
Forfeiture for the violation
noted herein.
2
2.
On January 11, 2017
, in response to a complaint
of interference
, an agent of
the
Enforcement Bureau’s
New York
Office
investigated and determined
that the source of the interference
was a signal booster, or Bi
-Directional Amplifier (BDA)
, EMR
Corp.
Model 850622. The BDA was
operated as part of
station WQKP916
and was
located at
820 Washington Street, New York, N
ew York.
The agent
observed the following violation:
47 C.F.R. §
90.219(e)(3)
of the Rules
: “Spurious emissions from a signal booster
must not exceed
-13 dBm within any 100 kHz measurement bandwidth.”
At the
time of t
he investigation,
The Friends of the High Line’s booster
was emitting a
spurious signal which drifted between 4
67.4000
and 467.7000
MHz
and
exceeded the
-13 dBm limit.
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Don't know what is going on but today all day and night there is a recorded message on the loop every few minutes. I have attached mp3 of the recording.

 

edit: missing word

 

Can you interpret the call signs that and type them, having a hard time understanding them.

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The FCC will accept any submissions made, but will almost certainly simply file it away. They have no resources left with which to take any real action.

 

We have had some folks working for a well-known major corporation using 146.505 simplex for well over two years here in NW Indiana and the FCC's reply to a thoroughly documented and recorded report was just this (paraphrased):

 

This despite the fact that the illegal usage occurs every day of the week for hours on end...

 

...and we even know precisely who they are!

 

Looks like we may have to start making a "Citizen's Arrest" and Fed Ex them to the FCC. :ph34r:  :)

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one CS is out of Elizabeth NJ that would be the one who made the recording.

 the reference is to the 675 midtown machine owner that has never had an output tone only an input tone. the reasoning behind that is to force operators to monitor the freq before transmitting. it states this in his listing in the database.

 

462.6750 MHz / "MANHATTAN" New York City, NY / Input = removed JE Output = Carrier-Squelch.

ALL users of this repeater MUST remain in "Carrier-Squelch" receive (open tone)  at all times when using this facility.

we in the NYC area have known about the problems w/machine for some time and it comes and goes.

I will reach out to those who might be able to help in this situation but the one running the recording is not helping, further to my knowledge the FCC does not  require a TX tone.

thoughts, comments gentlemen.

as an edit side note this machine has been up for ~20 yrs. the call was granted in March 98.

Edited by JohnE
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Can you interpret the call signs that and type them, having a hard time understanding them.

Here is a transcript of the entire loop:

"Attention, operation of the KAZ0353 KAG0353 repeater operating on the 462.675 Mhz; your system is working without any transmit tones. This is a shared frequency, you must operate with a transmit tone, so other repeaters can operate on this frequency. The FCC does not protect operators from interferance on GMRS who do not share. This station WQWQ482 will not cease to transmiting on this frequency until KAZ0353 KAG0353 reconfigures his repeater transmitter so other stations can operate on this frequency."

 

Today the recorded loop stopped. Instead some DTMF tones are getting looped every 30 secs or so.

 

It is always something wierd on this frequency around here

 

Edit: someone pointed out that call sign was transcribed wrong it should be KAG0353 not KAZ0353.  Thats why using phonetics are so important on radio comms.

Edited by radio1
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No repeater "output tone" is ever required. Furthermore, the absence of a transmit "output tone" will not - in and of itself - cause interference with other repeaters.

 

The looped recording on the other hand is nothing less than malicious interference as it allows no one else to use the frequency.

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the machine is doing its DTMF tone thing again every 10-15 seconds.

I tried the regular input w/no success and also tried the last known to me PL that I read out on one of my decoders and that was also NG.

when I have some time I will read it out  again to see if it has changed.

it may have been shut off due to the looped recording on the input, at least that what I suspect.

we will see what plays out

JE

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  • 1 month later...

A couple of years ago there was a Doctors office near me that was using GMRS. I set my simplex repeater on that frequency and PL for a few days...after that, never heard them again. I guess having to hear themselves repeated back all day was annoying! Imagine that. 

That is so excellent!

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  • 3 months later...

You have described why we are trying to get our GMRS repeaters onto some sort of access control system. We have 5-6 repeaters in Midlands SC area right now, and all of them end up being molested by unwanted people at some point or another. Almost everyone running on the repeaters has MDC1200 ability so we COULD set it up for a silenced MDC1200 Repeater Access Code but no way of making it happen. MSF5000s and Quantars had the ability through a VERY obscure module, but otherwise I am hoping that someone eventually will make a Raspberry Pi or Arduino based repeater controller with MDC1200 features.

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  • 3 months later...

The FCC will accept any submissions made, but will almost certainly simply file it away. They have no resources left with which to take any real action.

 

We have had some folks working for a well-known major corporation using 146.505 simplex for well over two years here in NW Indiana and the FCC's reply to a thoroughly documented and recorded report was just this (paraphrased):

 

This despite the fact that the illegal usage occurs every day of the week for hours on end...

 

...and we even know precisely who they are!

 

I know this is an older post but I was just looking at the rabbit trail again and marveling at the unresponsiveness of the FCC to clear violations, with documentation. If manpower and resources are the issues, I really wonder how they prioritize what they can respond to?    

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MSF5000s and Quantars had the ability through a VERY obscure module, but otherwise I am hoping that someone eventually will make a Raspberry Pi or Arduino based repeater controller with MDC1200 features.

LTR trunking controller. that will keep them busy for a while.

simple and cheap.

 

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Well it won’t be to a service that can be overrun with all the toys on frs all the combo units that people never got licensed for.. ignore it and collect the bucks from those that do get licensed. And now with the for every regulation 2must disappear I don’t see much happening on this freq cb or ham. Heck look at the famous repeater in calif on 2 meter. That would be so easy to shut down one letter to the owner. And they avoid that. Well best to keep the trouble on one set of freq. hams have problems on 7.200 also 14.313 but that has calmed down though.. might be because of the bands have slowed down All just speculation on my thought process

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  • 1 month later...

I know this is an older post, but as a former admin from the beginning (early 90's) of the repeater KAG0353 located at 30 Rock in NYC until I moved to PA 2002, There has always been a transmit tone of XXX.X and XXX.X with no RX tone and when we visited NJ last year we used our old radio to transmit on the repeater with a transmit tone. 

 

If anyone was in violation of the FCC rules it was the station WQWQ482  for transmitting such crap and interfering with other repeaters and those trying to operate on the NYC repeater.

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