808Beachbum

Well, apparently the Search function under the "Repeaters" tab uses different data than the Search function on the actual Map, under the "Map" tab. I've never used the Search under the Repeaters tab until someone mentioned something about "advanced search".

Really? Based on your location of Bristol, Pennsylvania, there are two that show up. "Tullytown 675", and "Burlington1". Both indicate coverage over the Bristol area.

As if it would be read...

Gee, I would assume a licensed HAM would assume radio traffic, while a CB'er or GMRS'er would assume highway traffic. You know, because CB'ers and GMRS'ers aren't even "Amateur" yet...

Why would you think a general license is required? Many clubs, and I dare say most "emergency teams" for a specific local area likely have, or have access to, a repeater system. Often this is a State or County owned or subsidized system. UHF/VHF is predominant use. Certainly, HF is used in more remote locations, but Red Cross, ARES, RACES, and local Emergency Management heavily utilize UHF/VHF in many urban areas. SOME of these are adding GMRS capability, just not as a primary.

It just seems backwards to me...why bother? It will work, sure, but to very little, if any, advantage. I started out exactly opposite, with an HT connected to a fender mounted "No Radial" mobile antenna on my plastic bodied smartcar. The HT was belt clipped onto a standard drawer pull mounted to my glove box door, and the HT had an optional speaker/mike hung from my mirror as well as a DC power cord connected to the lighter port. Worked fantastic whether parked or moving, great range throughout my usual urban area statewide repeater system and with very minimal "fenceposting". Years later the addition of an OpenSpot 3, allowed for international conversations while commuting...and all the while, the radio was never a potential target for local lowlifes. Unplug the DC cord, twist off the antenna coax, pop on the rubber duckie, and off you go! Just mount a proper mobile antenna and ditch the magmount if you can't keep it on.

Your best bet is to find a local radio club (amateur or GMRS, regardless of what type of radio you THINK you want), then attend a meeting or two, meet some active members, ask questions, ask for demos, ask for advice specific to your area with regard to what bands/freqs are most used in the region; available repeaters and amount of "traffic" (radio comms). Most clubs allow non-members to attend, and are more than happy to share their knowledge. These same clubs are usually involved with coordinated EMCOMMS with local agencies, providing simulated exercises and practice of their protocols so those that participate know what the heck to do when actual SHTF. Once you learn more about local reality, THEN you can decide what you want to pursue, and what you want to spend money on. Having said all that, "line of sight" is not as, ahem, clear cut as you might think. I'm dealing with highrise buildings in an urban area with mountains (actually little more than pointy hills) and difficult terrain, yet with some actual testing with a buddy, I have pretty decent capabilities out to about 2.5 - 3 miles in general. GMRS is NOT a "social gathering place" in a lot of areas, so a lot of people get discouraged when no one responds. GMRS is also NOT for hobbyists/experimenters that want to try new methods, as it has severe restrictions of band usage and types of transmissions. The Amateur (ham) bands are where there is a lot of contesting, long distance random contacts, multiple modes (including multiple digital modes which simplify long distance contact by combining RF with internet linking of repeaters/reflectors), and lots of regular "nets" where you can check in, test your equipment, and interact with others on a more or less regular basis. There are FAR more bands and unlimited freqs within those bands (based on actual local band plans), vs maximum of 30 specific channels on GMRS which are shared among all within range.

Top this, my former portable HAM shack !

Probably a more practical idea would be to actually go out and test your rig, perhaps with someone on a second radio, stationary at your home location, then drop pins in googleearth so you can clearly determine line of sight distances and elevations, as well as obstructions that may affect your actual range. This has the added benefit of providing actual experience communicating and learning that sometimes you only need to move 50 feet in one direction or another to have acceptable comms.

Doesn't much matter...there's only 8 repeater channels for everyone, and in addition, they are outputting to FRS channels. It is a very limited service, and if you do not participate with a local group, or practice basic emcomms long before SHTF, you are not likely to get much value (from repeater channels) during SHTF. On simplex, if you have done your homework, you should be able to stay in contact with your (properly equipped) inner circle.

You would likely avoid a lot of unnecessary confusion by initially purchasing either a GMRS radio, which has all the channels set up other than adjusting potential repeater channels to local tones; or a HAM HT. Both types of radios can be found with the ability to monitor outside of their allowable TX freqs, although "modifying" or "unlocking" either type of radio simply creates more confusion and potential problems (outside of licensing issues) for newbs. If you want to modify and experiment, the HAM route is the only route...GMRS simply is far too limited, and not offered with hobbyist radio in mind. With HAM on the other hand, you have tremendous ability and in fact encouragement to modify and experiment almost to your heart's content, within the assigned bandplan. The radios are also generally much more complex, and therefore more difficult to "learn" and utilize all available features. In general, they are also better built electronically and physically. You should also seriously consider meeting up with a local radio club (or multiple if there are choices) before purchasing anything, to learn more about what works well and what is useless in your particular region, based on your expectations. They will generally be your best and most current source for info on any local repeaters.

I have the same exact radio and antenna, which I have tested in my local urban environment with some so-called mountains in several directions. I did some testing with a buddy, and found the combo to be perfectly acceptable. Pretty consistently, in different directions, we could communicate just fine out to about two miles. To be fair, this was not with both of us at street level among buildings, but we picked our less obstructed areas, and sometimes it required just moving one radio 20 feet. We dropped pins on googleearth from each location so we could accurately review the facts. By doing so, we could see the change of elevation at some locations, as well as how much of the mountains were between our locations. In other words, you splurged $50 on a pair of radios, so take Pops out, drop him off at the shack, then take a hike/drive to do your own testing from various locations you expect to traverse. THEN, if results suck, you have a reference point and can decide on the possible value of additional expenditures, as well as provide clear data for discussion here.

There are plenty volunteer groups and radio clubs, of course depending on your location, that have relationships with the government agencies. They practice message handling protocols, and yes, some require or recommend some level of training in the FEMA National Incident Management System, however groups like the Red Cross, Salvation Army, Church groups, and others also make use of at least some basic protocols and standardized forms to ensure message accuracy, proper handling and routing, and to minimize wasting time communicating to the larger command centers. Without a working plan and solid procedures, chaos will reign. Emergency Management Agencies could not operate effectively if a bunch of random, untrained, chatty good 'ol boys are tying up the comms freq or critical cell phones. Yes, it is arguable that they are effective without the additional burden, but all you really need to do to get an idea of what it is like, check with your local HAM or GMRS clubs to see when their next Simulation exercise is scheduled, and get the details necessary to participate. Some are closed to just their specific org, but many are Statewide coordinated events, some that last for several days. If you are licensed and equipped for the bands they use, there is no other cost. The FEMA Incident Command courses are free and online too.

As with many aspects of life, you will be most satisfied by acquiring the proper tools, and proper knowledge, for the task at hand. Amateur Radio is actually for real hobbyists, providing a variety of modes, bands, equipment, power, antennas, and much more. GMRS is for self organized groups. There is very little ability with GMRS to modify or experiment due to it's very, very, narrow specs.

What gives makes you think he read the manual after writing the first part of the single post describing what was "on the screen"? Too much effort to backspace over the erroneous statements before completing the post after his epiphany? Or he read the manual and thought he changed to "channels", but failed to actually do so and therefore DID have the dual watch vfo freqs displayed?

Well, if 136.05 and 400.05 are showing on your display when you think you are on a GMRS "channel", you are very mistaken. Not only are you NOT on GMRS channels, you are also attempting to transmit out of the entire GMRS frequency band, and also outside of any HAM bands.

Just to add, "standby power" varies from one locale to another, and one organization to another. Any competent govt agency (is that an oxy moron?) has backup power for critical, and especially their "plan B and C" backup plans. We have repeaters totally off the grid 34/7/365, and others have solar/battery long term auto switching. Sure, there are many without too, but generally not those used by EM.

Its not just about how to "operate" a radio. If you do not know where, on the bands, and what mode, actual "help" might be found, you can end up just barking at the moon. What good is a random neighbor likely to be, if what you need is critical trauma care, or heavy equipment to get a tree off of your kid's bed, or someone to de-energize downed power lines laying on your car? Fed/State/County/Muni Emergency Management groups have predetermined freqs, chain of command, and protocols in place. They have, and practice, fundamental "messaging" techniques to ensure accuracy. Other Agencies that coordinate with and/or serve those EM groups have their own freqs and practice many of the same protocols. Digital messaging can be FAR more effective in some locales, IF you know where and how to send it. Knowing where to "find" these varied groups on the radio dial, and how to clearly, concisely, and effectively communicate with them, could be the difference between life and death. Sure, an unlicensed person can grab an injured cop's radio and call for help, with great success no doubt. But an unlicensed person jabbering half incoherently on a freq that no one useful is listening to will not. A licensed, practiced, and reasonably knowledgeable of the local freqs and radio groups absolutely can pass "traffic" to the appropriate agency for action. Even so, it is no like dialing 911 and having EMS show up in 15 minutes. Everything slows way down in a real SHTF scenario, but at least you can get on "the list" for whatever limited resources ARE available.

@KevinJ, as a Property Manager for over 20 years, I would strongly advise against ANY type of attachment to the house, until and unless you get written permission from your landlord (That permission should be explicit regarding exactly how the installation will be made, by whom, and exactly how the property is to be restored when you vacate). You will be in violation of most typical Rental Agreements if you do install or attach anything to the structure, and, more importantly, you will become responsible for any and all damage resulting from the installation or the next strong wind. Failure to properly and regularly maintain any attachment points can allow water intrusion which will, over time, cause extensive damage to the structure, and possibly attract destructive pests such as termites or carpenter ants. Any intrusion will also cause mold to grow, creating a health issue for your own and subsequent families. I've seen too many Tenants create huge problems for themselves by doing much less...

@KevinJ, Be SURE the chimney is sound before you go mounting anything to it. It looks pretty sketchy in your original pic. Also, regards to gable mounting, ASSUMING those are electrical wires that are very close (not just cable tv or phone lines), not only do you absolutely NOT want to mount on the gable, you do not want whatever you put up to be able to fall onto the wires in the event of strong winds, so consider your overall mast/antenna height, and fortify appropriately.

Always did, Flash Gordon, King Zebra Charlie 4437!

It seems everyone has lost sight of, or NEVER bothered to look at, the overall purpose for GMRS. It is a VERY limited service, INTENTIONALLY. As such, it makes perfect sense to limit power, antenna choices, and a maximum of 22 channels (some shared with specific repeater channels). It also makes sense to have minimal licensing requirements. As one poster mentioned, CB turned into the wild west. It too started as 23 discrete channels, then increased to 40, in the 11 meter band, AM mode (with sidebands). In the 70's and 80's, I had a Royce sideband base station with Astatic Golden Eagle D-104 mic, a 40 foot Rohn tower with Ham IV rotator, Moonraker 4 beam, and an Astroplane omnidirectional. My Royce was modified by a friend to have around 15 additional channels, and I had a 500 watt tube type heater. Living at a very high point in our county, I could routinely, and without using the heater, communicate throughout about a 60 mile radius. Great times, until the licensing was relaxed on that service. Between the jerks and the solar activity, it became largely useless by the 90's. GMRS is now essentially starting out somewhat the same, albeit in FM UHF, with the addition of repeater functionality, and greatly reduced options for antennas and power. Repeaters alone provide great functionality for their intended use...to reasonably expand a unique group/family communication area, whether that is a farm, ranch, or larger family business. Portable repeaters provide additional capability for those groups that travel together, such as offroaders, hikers, skiers, and the like. Neither of these services is oriented towards the same type of person as Amateur (ham) Radio. CB and GMRS/FRS are EXTREMELY limited as to total bandwidth allocated, mode of operation, and both are restricted to specific frequencies. They are intentionally, very simple in capability and operation. If you are not already part of a group, or plan on comms primarily among your family members, it is a mistake to believe you will be able to randomly talk to people all over the state/country/world. Certain locales may have heavier traffic, but you should determine that prior to purchasing equipment. Look for GMRS and Amateur Radio clubs in your region. There will be people there that can give you better local guidance. Here's a link to a graphic chart of all of the US frequency allocations. If everyone was allowed to just run amok with freqs and power, comms would suffer for all. There is a reason for Band allocation, and the restrictions placed on them. Amateur Radio OTOH, has relatively huge overall bandwidth available, across multiple frequency bands, and is very much oriented toward those that want to experiment with modifications to, and a wide variety of, antennas, transceivers, and ancillary equipment; utilize various bands and modes of operation, including various digital modes, some over internet; enables operators unlimited frequency choices within bands and ranges authorized with their license; and repeater linking by both radio and internet are common and well used. There are so many different areas you can learn about and experiment with in Amateur Radio. Moonbounce, talking to ISS, using satellite repeaters, slow scan tv, CCW (using Morse code), building hotspots that allow you to talk around the world from your HT, remote antenna control access, and so much more. Amateur Radio clubs are more likely to be affiliated with local or state Emergency Management, although certainly NOT all clubs are...many are primarily just into contesting. The simple fact is, a lot of those club members actually work at various Emergency Management organizations, and it is a mutually beneficial relationship, usually allowing club repeaters to be installed on govt towers, or govt actually providing their repeaters for club use. Very few govt affiliates are serious about GMRS, although may include it in addition to ham capabilities. OTOH, I dare say a large percentage of those agencies DO have ham capabilities, which of course still vary by locale, but are more prevalent nonetheless. GMRS quite simply doesn't have 1/100th of the capability or users worldwide compared to ham. You can't "modify" your way out of its perceived shortcomings. I did read somewhere that locally, we have about equal amounts of licensed GMRS operators to Tech grade only licensed Amateurs. It is still a very low number given the population. With population across the islands of around 1.4 million, in my urban location there is virtually NO random calls. Everything is clearly school, family, and small business comms. Do you know why there are multiple ham frequency bands, or what difference they make? Oversimplified, different bands react differently to solar activity, which in turn affects how far and how well your signal is transmitted. One band often outperforms another when trying for long distances, depending on current solar activity. this can change daily, weekly, monthly, and there are yearly cycles. GMRS is pretty limited to sightlines only, with minimal obstructions for greatest range. Urban areas will be very limited...I get about 2 miles generally decent, from a mid level concrete bunker; 3 or more miles only to other very high points. I did some testing with a ham buddy to determine actual range with the GMRS, and plotted it on googleearth for future reference. I have no plans to regularly use or monitor the GMRS, but have them as a Plan C or D... For all you Satellite phone types, whatcha gonna do when Rocket Man or Putin starts taking out our Satellites? You'd probably be quite surprised to find out just how many ham rigs are stored in faraday cages for TEOTWAWKI, if you survive.

Well, the fact the govt is worthless is a whole 'nuther topic. BUT, the National/State/Local/Family groups I referred to above primarily is in regard to "served agencies" and other non-govt groups...whether that is a hiking or offroading club, or just your own family and friends group. You still need to know what works, and where you CAN get or relay info to if desired. There are numerous local groups, which vary by locale, that learn and practice many/all of the elements that will come into play when SHTF. This includes a variety of local HAM groups, such as ARES, RACES, and local Red Cross as well as less EMCOMM focused radio groups; and possibly GMRS groups. Make no mistake however, again, depending on your locale, but for instance here the State and County Emergency Management orgs, as well as a group consisting of local hospitals, all prepare for and take part in the annual simulation tests. That means Amateur Radio Operators manning off-grid stations across the islands, at Emergency Management Centers, at hospitals, at temporary Red Cross shelters, and other locations as determined based on the actual event. Some are just storm watchers, reporting actual conditions. Sorry, not "just", they are in the eye of the monster. In some locales, I understand the HAM clubs are embracing/coexisting with GMRS, but at their basis, they are very separate services, in terms of actual intent, capabilities, and acceptance for SHTF scenarios. Bottom line, when all else fails, and you need 911, you may have no choice but 144MHZ, or a 40 meter freq to talk with anyone that would be useful in some manner in the moment. You just need to know where, exactly, to look. Better to determine that beforehand, and practice.

That is why competent National/State/Local/Family groups perform multi-agency emergency simulation exercises. By doing so, those that actually take part, will (in theory) be reasonably efficient in carrying out their comms responsibilities, while overcoming expected "grid down" scenarios. There actually is such a thing as an incident command structure, and "traffic" systems (not vehicle traffic, message handling) that, on some level are always present, but when SHTF those systems ramp up as circumstances allow. It is up to the individuals to prepare for such events, including acquiring reasonable equipment with the necessary capabilities, and knowledge to, at a minimum, receive information; and, to potentially transmit critical information to the proper recipient. If you are clueless as to what capabilities are needed, how can you possibly prepare? You also need to practice setting up and using the proper equipment, so you are not bumbling when it really matters. Otherwise, no one is coming to help you...

Unless the map on this site shows one or more (active and "open") repeaters in a location and at an elevation that would provide essentially "line of sight" from you to the repeater, and from repeater to your daughter, it is highly unlikely any GMRS, or most other radio options will RELIABLY get you useful communication. I'm located in an urban area, on the fourth floor, and my limitations are at about 2.5 miles unless I relocate to a MUCH higher elevation, using a pair of typical, inexpensive, Baofeng GM15 Pros. I am on the fringe of the "urban" area, and testing was into the heavier urban areas with more obstructions. Taking a good look at your 2 locations on googleearth can give you a much clearer picture of the straight line distance, and obstructions (with their elevations) actually between you. If, OTOH, your locales are linked with a quality HAM VHF/UHF repeater system, it would be easy to maintain comms, assuming those systems have typical standby power. However obtaining the proper license is more difficult, and the equipment is generally much more expensive and more complicated to operate than GMRS.