RoadApple

So, let me see if I have this right. The "legal use" of 467Mhz simplex is all about the devices on each end of the communication as that determines if you are classified as a "Fixed Station". Seems to be a fluid definition.... When the radio in my house is being used to communicate with the radio in your house, we can call ourselves "Fixed Stations" and transmit simplex on 467Mhz. But if a mobile or handheld popped up (simplex) on the same 467Mhz frequency and tried to contact us they would be in violation. Likewise, if either one of us "Fixed Stations" failed to ignore that person's transmissions and communicated with that mobile or handheld (intentional or not), we would by virtue of that action, change our classification from a "Fixed Station" to a "Base Station" and would thus also be in violation for using 467Mhz simplex.

Oh, I see it now. Thanks! Interesting carve out for "Fixed Stations". Was there a specific reason for this exception to the repeater input clause or was it simply an omission in the text?

I'm not sure about that. I believe I recall reading that the 467Mhz frequencies are for repeater input only and simplex use is not allowed.

I watched the YT video on the Retevis RT97L 25W repeater ( Thank you @OffRoaderX ! ). Unless I'm misunderstanding things, the video indicated that this repeater is intended for "lite use" and suggest that it may not have the duty cycle or capacity to serve as an open use general repeater. The spec sheet says it has a "Transmitter Duty Cycle of 100%". What does that really mean, and has anyone out there done any serious real-world general use testing with this specific repeater?

I can't add much that hasn't already been stated except, welcome to the Forum!!!!

You are no doubt correct. The ham tests can be intimidating to some people. There really is a very, very, low barrier to entry in GMRS and no barrier at all for FRS. Honestly, the folks in the local amateur radio club near me have thus far been very friendly and welcoming. I've not met him yet, but I understand that there is a high school student in the club, so that is a positive sign... Still the majority of the membership seems overwhelmingly north of 60.

I'm on the South Coast between Gaviota and Santa Barbara, south of the Santa Ynez mountain range. If I drive out of the canyon and get out by Hwy 101, I can sometimes hear repeater traffic from way over in Ventura and even LA across the water. Nothing to my north. I've checked the maps, and I've monitored all GMRS channels for hours with only a little occasional simplex traffic here and there getting into the canyon where I live. If you are aware of some dormant repeater with high enough elevation on the south coast, to get a signal into these canyons, I'd love to know about it!

Interesting back story @SteveShannon. Thanks for sharing that. For me: Like many, I dabbled in CB in the 70's and later in the 80's I was a first responder and used radios daily. But I've also been involved with horses for most of my life. In the 90's (and for a subsequent 20+ years) I was recruited to be a volunteer announcer at an Arabian horse show and was asked to setup improved comms that could be used by show officials. Having a limited budget to work with, we used cheap blister-pack FRS radios to communicate between the announcer booth, the arena, the barns, the show office and patched thru the fairgrounds PA system. I used CTCSS tones to eliminate external chatter from creating interference with our activates. It worked really well. After retirement, I decided to look into GMRS where more power and range could be obtained. I got a license, a few handhelds and a mobile and have had some fun with it on the road. At home it is a different story. I live in a fire prone area on the pacific coast less than 2 miles from the ocean; however, I'm in a canyon where most VHF/UHF radio signals tend to be blocked by a lot of earth and lots of trees. There are no GMRS repeaters (or GMRS radio clubs) in my area. Everything I have at home (Phone, internet, TV, Cell) is via satellite, so the use of GMRS for any type of SHTF emergency comms is totally futile. However, the local ham club has 2m & 70cm repeaters on the mountain tops near me. That prompted me to get licensed and get a dual band radio so I could hit those repeaters. But I've yet to assimilate into the more formal, radio-for-the-sake-of-radio, ham culture. There is no doubt a lot to be learned from those guys, but I find GMRS in many ways much more practical and fun. Everyone can easily participate via FRS, and anyone with $35 to spare can be licensed to use GMRS. Like @WRUE951 said, I'm more comfortable here as it is not as rigid and structured. My recent attendance at the local ham radio club meetings has been an eye opener for me and that is what makes me very curious about the membership and demographics of GMRS specific radio clubs. Maybe if I could get my signal out of this canyon, I might setup a local GMRS group in my area...

Old Man's Hobby A while ago I attended an amateur radio club meeting. The club is over 100 years old, and I wanted to see what it was about. There were about 30 guys there and I was surprised at the average age. I'm 62 and I was probably the youngest one in the room! One guy said he joined the club 60 years ago and another volunteered that he had received his amateur license in 1953! They tended to say things that illustrated their years. A lot of "I remember when...", "we used to...", "in the ol' days" etc. etc. This seemed to be presented as if somehow, in spite of the evolution of the technology, mere longevity was sort of prima facia evidence of expertise. Likewise, nobody there suggested that they use their radio for any specific activity or purpose other than radio for the sake of (QSO, QSO) radio itself. It was interesting to observe. Nice guys, but true radio dorks and gadget fanatics. One guy was carrying a portable spectrum analyzer in his pocket! (Not that there is anything wrong with that!! ). To me, this all seemed to lend credibility to the stereotype that radio is an old man's hobby. When I listen to amateur nets it is often the same; old guys talking mostly about radio. But this does not seem to be the case with GMRS. We have young people! Since we share frequencies with unlicensed FRS, while traveling, I hear many young voices (mostly kids playing). At the beach and on the lake, I hear chatter from boaters and people fishing. GMRS is used by some businesses, so I periodically hear people at work. In the area where I live, GMRS is actually fairly quiet, but I do sometimes hear farm workers and people going about their daily activities and doing "stuff". I hear folks living life. It is not just old guys blustering and jabber-jawing about radio or nothing in particular. That said, I do not share the misconception that GMRS is only for specific activities. GMRS can be for any activity desired even if that activity is just random chats with strangers. So, what about GMRS radio clubs... I don't have any GMRS radio clubs around me, but for those of you who do, what is the average age of the members within the club? And since it is specifically a GMRS Radio Club, do they view GMRS radio itself as the activity or as a tool for other random activities?

Well, tie me to an anthill and smear my ears with jam! Sorry, I really did not mean to sound like "some people" or upset any gods, regular folk or GMRS queens. Like many GMRS users, I occasionally use CHIRP to program my radios, and I was just using the same term as used in the "Duplex" section of the CHIRP documentation and other GMRS radio manuals as well as the actual programming menu (#26) of my own GMRS radio (TIDRADIO GM-5R). Shame on me. I'll try to be much more careful in the future!!!

GMRS. You are correct that there are only 8 designated repeater channels. GMRS channels 15 thru 22 exist as simplex channels and in most GMRS radios there are also 8 pre-programmed "Repeater Channels" 15 thru 22 where the RX is the same but the TX on all the repeater channels is offset by +5Mhz

The "Repeater Channels" will use a +5mhz offset (Duplex) for transmit (TX) meaning that for repeater CH 17 your radio will TX on 467.600Mhz and receive (RX) on 462.600Mhz. This should work as desired when talking thru the repeater which listens RX on 467.600Mhz and retransmits or "repeats" the signal on 462.600Mhz. But if you are out of range of the repeater and are trying to talk directly between the 2 Rocky Talkie radios directly (Simplex) on Repeater CH 17 without the use of the repeater, then your TX & RX will be on different frequencies thus they can't communicate. If, for example, you switch your radios to regular Channel 17 rather than Repeater Ch 17 the radios will be set to TX and RX on the same 462.600Mhz frequency and they should communicate with each other as desired. Also, you only need the CTCSS tone on the TX to activate the repeater. It really isn't needed on RX, so it might be easier to remove the CTCSS tone from RX for now.

Got it. Thanks for that clarification of "quirky". Admittedly, I have not used many of the CTRL key sequence shortcuts so that may be why I've not experienced the same issues.

Interesting to hear, as I've had no issues with it on Windows 10 or 11. Using it to program 4 different radios. Perhaps I've just been lucky so far...

I see/hear a lot of folks taking great joy in knocking the Baufang brand and Cheap Chinese Radios in general, but the proof is in the pudding, and quite often these cheap little radios can surprise us!

@amaff Very Nice. The bright colors were a great choice for such a setup.

As I read this thread, I'm now trying to figure out which issue is causing the burr under the saddle, the product(s) or the product support? I'm a simple guy, but it seems to me that unless extra $ was paid to a reseller for some level of warranty beyond what the manufacturer offers, you cannot expect the reseller to do much of anything! Now, for the sake of trying to cultivate some future business maybe the reseller could be a little helpful and talk to you or try to walk you through the setup to rule out operator error, and that would be nice, but that is not a responsibility on their part. You certainly cannot expect a reseller to fix or replace a product for free. Then there is the product itself not being of the quality you want or expect. If product quality is the issue, then it really doesn't matter which reseller you go thru for the purchase. For me, the lesson here is that when you buy a new product, you need to take the time to put it thru its paces and identify issues within the warranty period or forever hold your piece! Almost everything will fail eventually, and I've thrown away my share of failed equipment over the years. That is just the way it is....

Can't argue with an Admiral!

Sounds like that may just bring the unlicensed, non-radio folk, one step closer to getting onto local repeaters... welcome or not. Modern GMRS radios in the hands of "FRS type" users will no doubt continue to blur the lines between the two services.

I've often wondered about the practical reality of "we don't allow...to use our GMRS repeater" when all they need is the correct tone. Notwithstanding the reality that many can't figure out the tone, for those that can and do, then what? If they are locals and are doing it on a regular basis, as opposed to some unknown random person or group passing thru the area, it isn't difficult to figure out who they are. Clearly that would be the first step in any sort of enforcement action. But what a PITA. Then what? Report it to FCC and cross your fingers, I guess... IDK, the whole thing is based on the honor system and as we see, or rather hear, with some degree of regularity, some folks just don't care about rules.

Your assumption about 5-watt HT's being used without a license is probably correct. I hear farm workers on the radio (simplex) that I very much doubt, based on their conversation, are within FRS range. They never ID themselves. I'm not sure they know the difference between FRS and GMRS radios, and if they do, I doubt they care. To them, it is just another radio that works a little better.

Agreed. An eventual reduction to zero is feasible. After all, as was pointed out there isn't a big operational gap between FRS and GMRS and FRS is already not licensed. GMRS was $70 for a 10-year term and is now $35 for a 10-year term. IDK, perhaps I've got the wrong perspective, but at a rate of $3.50 per year it sure doesn't seem like money is the FCC's motivation for GMRS licensing. Otherwise, they would be charging more and wouldn't have recently lowered the fee. I think that at some point the FRS/GMRS chaos will reach critical mass, and the FCC certainly has bigger fish to fry. I too had one of them there CB licenses back in the 70's that soon became irrelevant. I also had a cheap Kraco radio, and it worked great!!!

Ignore the crass comments here on the forum. Everyone is a beginner at some point and sometimes if you are not at all familiar with something, the manual is not as intuitive as we would like. Asking question is okay! Like @WRYS709 Said: Welcome to MyGMRS.

Thanks for that info!!! I will definitely take a closer look at the WP-9900 product. And for the modest $115 price tag it is probably worth getting one to test out in person! It really looks like the Btech 20V2. Maybe, it is made by same company with different branding. The Btech 20V2, which I like a lot, is also a "cheap chinese radio" so that really doesn't bother me. I think a lot of folks (read: "Radio Dorks") get totally wrapped around the axel on that stuff or see the brand name of their radio as some kind of freak'in status symbol, as if anyone in the real world gives a rat's ass. I will concede that the specs, when measured with test equipment can differ, and some radios may even be noticeably better than others, but the average dude, like me, using a radio just doesn't care. As long as I can communicate with others around me with reasonable clarity and reliability that's all that matters. When I hear someone else talking, I don't know, and I don't care, what kind of radio they are using. It's a moot point! It is interesting that you speak of the volume control being a PITA because that is for me the biggest negative in the basic operation of the Btech 20V2. The orange button on top of the mic that you use to turn the radio on/off is also used to open the squelch to put the radio in monitor mode. Long press vs short press and I always manage to hold the button for the wrong amount of time for what I'm wanting to do. Then while in monitor mode, you use the up and down arrow keys to adjust the volume. To me, this is a little clumsy, but it works, and I really don't have to adjust the volume that often, so it is a quirk I can easily live with. It is also funny that you mention how some hams might like the aesthetics of visible radios. HA!!! I think what you say is true. They like having all the knobs and meters etc. on display. Besides, if you can't see the physical radio box mounted proudly and prominently in front of you, how would you possibly be able to admire the expensive brand name? I recently went to a local ham radio club meeting for the first time. I was the new guy, and they knew nothing about me. Surprisingly, the very first question I was asked by one of the members; "What kind of equipment do you have?". My answer; "Oh, just cheap Chinese junk..." I understand the value of technical quality, but form factor and aesthetics is important for different reasons. I like being able to keep things clean, low profile, somewhat unnoticeable whenever I can. It is a matter of personal preference and for me these small form factor radios with controls on the mic seem to work pretty well in that regard. Anyway, thanks again for the lead on the WP-9900, I'll check it out....

I'm a little late to this thread and it appears that you have already received an answer to your question but thought I might chime in anyway. I have a BTech 20v2 and use it to receive many VHF/UHF frequencies outside of the GMRS frequency range. It works great. IMHO, the receiver selectivity is not the best, but it is a good little radio for the price. I really love the form factor and that all the controls are on the mic and that I can stash the radio in an out of the way location. I wish I could find a small unlocked dual band ham radio (like the Btech UV-25X2) with a small display and all the controls on the mic! That too would be handy! Anyway, YES, you can receive ham and various public safety traffic via the radio and use the scan feature to scan thru all of it. I do it all the time. That Btech 20V2 is a compact little unit and will give you the capability you are seeking.