JAF27
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Posts posted by JAF27
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4 minutes ago, Lscott said:
Yes, DMR might make sense for MURS. It's already sort of a catch-all garbage service as it is with people using remote doorbells, wireless data logging devices etc. I doubt DMR would do much more to mess it up than all the other crap that's there now.
Where I am, one user uses the 154.6 frequency on FM for about one hour each morning (7 AM). I have scanned for miles in other areas, and that’s about it.
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42 minutes ago, Lscott said:
You have some valid points.
I think the issue with going digital has more to do with improved voice quality than anything else. There is some possible range improvements, likely due to digital voice modes to maintain clear communications until you reach the range limit. As you pointed out the signals propagate the same regardless of mode. I suspect the attraction of digital voice for the average non-technical GMRS user is clarity of the audio signal under conditions where analog FM will sound like crap. It's a better user experience.
The issue with how to configure the radio for digital mode(s) can be addressed by restricting the options. For example all compatible radios must use the same time slot, or likely both, the group ID can be fixed (All Call), leaving leaving just the color code as an option.
Remember the EU has the dPMR446 license free service. The use of DMR isn't really the only choice. I wish people would get that out of their head and consider the other modes that might be much better, simpler, from a user's view point. There are other digital voice modes requiring less setup, such as the one I just mentioned. I have the programming software for the Kenwood TK-3701D, which is an EU license free analog/PMR446 radio, just to see what it looks like. See attached file for an example of the digital half of the radio memory setup. It's really not that complex, on a par with analog FM.
Part of the issue with getting the FCC to consider digital voice mode(s) will be how to fit it into the existing GMRS service given it's current limitations. DMR might not be the best idea regardless of how "popular" it is. People are using it simply because it's readily available with somewhat affordable radios. As some others have pointed out it's already causing problems. Using a different digital voice mode with some sane rule changes that can be fixed IMHO.
Solid points. I’d much rather DMR be integrated into MURS than GMRS considering it is a radio service that is nearly dead in many places, with only a few using it. Allocating 2-3 MURS channels for DMR wouldn’t do much harm.
It would be extremely hard to police DMR on GMRS. Analog users can’t interpret their signals, and if anyone went out of bounds just once, it could be a nightmare for analog users who would be unable to trace the signal’s origin.
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4 minutes ago, Lscott said:
The rationale for pushing for digital voice modes has nothing to do with making GMRS an “Amateur Radio Lite” service. In fringe areas FM doesn’t result in clear reliable communications. Having the option to use digital voice, and the documented better received audio signal quality in conditions where FM signal quality is poor, is the point.
Certainly. He is just mentioning that many people want to make GMRS another version of HAM, part of that being the move towards DMR. And yes, it is true. Many view GMRS as the easier and study-free way to use radio, but HAM was created for the sole purpose of radio enthusiasm and interest.
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16 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:
Why? I'm half and half on DMR for GMRS, but when you sit down and think about it, DMR would allow for better co-use of a single repeater pair, with the added bonus of better coverage and other tools that quite frankly would be used in our house.
I’m not against DMR use for repeaters - it’s a great resource and works tremendously well!
My issue is handling the limited bandwidth of GMRS for both analog and DMR users. HAM has so much space that analog and DMR repeaters can coexist peacefully. However, GMRS only has a few repeater channels, and for analog users, DMR would likely flood their repeaters with the annoying sound of that buzzing!
I have had numerous illegal DMR users transmit on the output channel of my repeater. Even squelching them out with PL tones doesn’t work, and the interference is incredibly frustrating.
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3 hours ago, Lscott said:
This is why the FCC will have to address allowing digital voice on GMRS sooner or later. It's happening with, or without, their official blessing. I would rather see digital voice incorporated officially in the rules, which hopefully will eliminate the chaos that currently exists. It also has to be coupled with some meaningful enforcement actions, at least directed towards the more frequent and flagrant violators.
Right now the complaints stem from DMR operation on GMRS. However I'll bet that's not the only digital voice mode you'll find in use on the service. There are plenty of commercial radios very capable of FM and digital modes such as NXDN and P25. I have several of those and some are Part 95 certified. Just can't use the digital half of the radio. Then you have some of the modified Ham gear, MARS/CAP mod's, running D-Star and YSF. A real smorgasbord to sort out.
I started a thread a while back about possible Part 95E rule changes to allow digital voice on GMRS. Seems like people don't care since the thread just died from lack of interest. Also it got derailed early on over lecturing about FHSS, which wasn't the point of the thread anyway. Oh well.
You’re absolutely right. GMRS, as a modern radio service, has to address modern radio solutions like DMR.
The unfortunate fact is, adding DMR in such a large implementation would simply disrupt the millions of consumer analog radios that rely on the FRS/GMRS bands for communications. I’m tired of illegal DMR users flooding my repeater channels and making life a living hell.
I frankly believe that DMR should be applicable on only non-repeater channels, particularly channels 8-14 where power is limited to 0.5 watts. This way, users can experience its superior abilities while not disrupting other analog users.
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As a person based in New York City, we get a lot of it. I mean A LOT. Sometimes, DMR users will entirely occupy repeater output channels for hours while we are completely unable to hear our repeaters, even when using RX tones.
Cheap Chinese devices like baby monitors also sometimes use digital signals on GMRS frequencies illegally.
Rarely do I see use of the legal, short digital messages being used.
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Hello,
I am based in New York City and am hearing a GMRS repeater transmit a Morse Code Identification as WROP628 on 462.725 MHz. I see that the license holder lives in Maywood, NJ. Does anyone know anything about this repeater or has heard it as well? Attached to this post is the recording of the transmission (Warning: Loud Squelch Sound at the Start)
Thanks
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On 4/25/2022 at 6:44 PM, WRPE755 said:
There is a rather active Broadnet GMRS Repeater System that is centered in the New York City area that I listen to on Zello. There are 22 active on that Zello node, and there must be more than that listening on their radios. Just introduce yourself and see if anyone answers. Or just listen and see what you can hear.
As you mentioned, the Broadnet is a great option. They are linked through GMRS Live and have a very lively community. That said, Their non-REACT repeaters are only in the Bronx, although one appears to be in midtown according to their website and MyGMRS, but I haven’t heard it on the airwaves yet. Thus, range is limited. If you’re in Manhattan or can’t get line of sight while being out of the Bronx, it will likely be difficult to connect.
NYC has quite a dense number of GMRS users and repeaters by area, but unfortunately large obstacles make relaying signals difficult.
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On 7/25/2022 at 7:50 AM, Sshannon said:
I’m from Butte. I don’t know of any repeaters in the state other than the ones shown on the listing here, which includes one in Kalispell and three in Billings.
There is a pretty good DMR network for the state if you are a ham.
Thanks!
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Hello all,
Does anyone know of repeaters or popular frequencies/talk groups on GMRS in Helena, Montana?
Thanks
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Hey All,
For those in NYC, I recently heard people using the Manhattan 675 (KAG0353) repeater. From my knowledge, I thought it had been taken down due to interference in 2017. Even so, the people using it last night were complaining about interference as well. I tried to direct message KAG0353 the owner, but it wouldn't work. Any ideas on the repeater?
Thanks
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I had suggested MURS VHF. You can certainly try GMRS with two hand heads if you already have them. Who knows, it might just work. But, while the distance is not really a factor, other channel usage from FRS and other GMRS users will likely be the most serious problem.
Yeah, I don't mind interference too much! Thanks for the help and have a great day!
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Marine radio is not legal for land use, only land to sea and sea to sea.
Do you have any idea how I could reach them through radio? Or is this just me having too high of expectations?
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Marine radio is not legal for land use, only land to sea and sea to sea.
Alright. I talked from land to sea the other day and reached a guy all the way near Atlantic City, but thanks for the suggestion.
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There is a good chance that GMRS may not work for this application, regradless of how much power unless both are on the highest rooftops without taller buildings in between.
Rooftop to rooftop would work like a dream, ground to ground with tall buildings between reduces the chances of success.
I have a decently tall rooftop, although my buddies is somewhat shorter.
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Thanks for the help everyone. I do not really have line of sight. If you had a radio service recommendation (I don't have a HAM license), that would be helpful. Because many mentioned VHF, I was thinking maybe Marine radio with 25 watts? But if you had any good ideas without using a repeater that would be helpful!
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Hello,
I am currently working on creating a source of communication for me and my friend, and I wanted to know what the community's advice would be. I am located in Lower Manhattan, New York City and am trying to reach someone about 6-7 miles uptown. You see, my current plan is to purchase an amplifier, that along with my Baofeng UV-5R, will transmit 50 watts. Does anyone think I will be able to reach my friend with this amount of power? All of the buildings make it very difficult to get a signal through. The most power I have tried is 8 watts so far, and not a chance of signal there. I can barely reach a repeater with it!
Thanks!
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Hi,
There is a repeater in New York City, KAG0353 on frequency 462.675. I frequently hear it identifying itself. Does anyone know the tone in and tone out codes for it? Or any other information about the repeater? -
Ok, I had to dig one of mine out of the storage case and check, there are three ways of doing this.
1. PC (computer) programming. They’re listed as R-DCS which stands for Receive Digital Coded Squelch, R-CTCS which stands for Receive Continuous Tone Coded Squelch. Next you have T-DCS and T-CTCS with the “T” meaning Transmit. You choose which ever column you need, then click the arrow for a drop down list and click on the code you need.
2. Manually from the radios keypad. Assuming you have the voice prompt turned on, Press the orange button that is labeled “VFO/MR” until you “frequency mode”. Then press “menu”, 1, 0, this will take you to R-DCS or “menu, 1, 1, which will take you to R-CTCS. Which ever type you need to enter. For the Transmit input press “menu” 1, 2, for T-DCS or 1, 3, for CTCS. Once you get to the screen needed, press “menu” again which will enter your radio into the selection screen. You can then either use the arrow up/down buttons to scroll through the codes until you find the one you need or you can enter the code on the keypad. If you use the keypad method just enter each number and don’t worry about the “.” Dot. Once you have selected or entered the code you need, Press “menu” and the Press “Exit” on the keypad. Do the same for the transmit tone.
Example; Say you need to set 141.3 for the T-CTCS tone.
Press VFO/MR until you hear “frequency mode”, press “menu” press 1, 1, then press “menu”, the press 1, 4, 1, 3, then press “menu” then press exit. You have now entered the Receive CTCS.
I could break it down even more but hopefully this is enough for you to understand. However, if you still need help feel free to send me a message from my profile page and I’ll do my best to help you out.
Good luck
Thanks? Does the tone in apply to the receive or transmit? Again, sorry for asking.
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Could anyone attach a thread of how to tune these codes and access the repeater? Thanks!
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Hi,
I am brand new to GMRS. How do I tune the tone-in and tone-out frequencies?
DMR on GMRS
in FCC Rules Discussion
Posted
Yes, good point. In simple terms, Morse Code on GMRS is never transmitted with an oscillator in the form of “Continuous/Carrier Wave” embedded into the signal, but rather in the form of audio being transmitted on FM.