XPR 7550e ... just wow...

[Lscott]

1 minute ago, tweiss3 said:

I will say, I think the "behind the keypad" speaker and microphone is a negative as well.

I'll bet it would have been fun to be the fly on the wall during the design review meetings where that was discussed.

[gman1971]

Good point on the speaker, it didn't click until you said it... and that is something I hated on the Alinco MD5...

And hate to admit this as well, but the R7 looks like a Retevis CCR... hopefully the receiver is not on par with the CCR looks.

G.

[PACNWComms]

Posting this here about the XPR7550e replacement, the R7. I was also posting some items in the RR forums, as there was discussion there as well (many thought it was the Ion series, others posted a DP400 Australian DMR radio from 2014). The picture in the gallery is accurate. This came from my Motorola sales rep in two emails, when I asked for current XPR7550e pricing lists for several sites that currently use the XPR7550/7550e.

"Wanted to make you aware that next week we will be
introducing the new XPR7000 radio replacement, called the
R7. It will be available in VHF/UHF initially and then
800/900MHZ at the end of the year. They may want to consider
the new R7 radio  as the current XPR7000 version will
probably be phased out by middle of 2023, replaced by the R7
version.

I will get you info and costs on the R7 as well once we have
it officially launched on Jan 31st for your guys
consideration.

We are calling it R7 from what I was told.

High level features are :

2x Display Size of current XPR7000
Hide speaker under keypad
Dual Mic Adaptive Noise  supression - really good
2.4/5Ghz WiFi for OTAR only
R7 Accessories same as ION accessories
Much better audio is biggest improvement
No LTE/ No Android in device
IMPRES 1 3rd gen battery so will work with XPR7000 chargers
with software upgrade
Great Noise Suppression
Audio the biggest Improvement
Single Global Naming convention
RM for Programming
Connect to internet out of box to phone home and regionalize
the device

More to come once official announcement is made next week."

There are several "deal breakers" for me and my current employer. RM for Programming, uses Ion accessories, and connect to internet to regionalize device. There will no longer be a XPR7550e for the American's and an XiR8668 for Asia (same radio) for example, all will be named R7. But, when the alternative is the Trbo Ion series radio, we already prepared for going directly to APX. But, this is a hard sell (for my employer) at times, as a typical Trbo based site costs $588k, while the same equivalent Astro site is $1.2m. Then you buy the subscriber units, with that cost difference.

[gman1971]

Well, I really think Motorola made a tactical mistake with this radio... but only time (and $$$) will tell.

They should've just improved on the already successful XPR 7550e: add a  larger screen, tweak the receiver to make it more selective, change a few bits here and there, heck, maybe even change the outer case a hair, and just call it the XPR7550e2... Keep the 7550e as it is now, maybe do a small refresh of the casing to reflect the new decade, whatever, but add the new one as e2... but keep everything the same. That saves costs and everything... and people will have the option to chose between the e and e2, and a lot of people could slowly phase the 7550e into e2, without having to invest on a whole new set of batteries and accessories, the ION and the NEXT are such impractical radios, they are big and bulky and they don't work well with gloves... hate to say this but those two radios are a probably the two finest Motorolian bean-counter driven epic blunders. IMO. Also, given how the world economic landscape is right now... savings would've made a lot of sense... but whatever... 

They should allow it to use CPS 2, which is much better than the RM cloud deal and the whole "radio" as a frigging service BS". Soon radios will have PTT quotas... and once you've exceed it you'll have to get online to purchase more PTT presses, or a new plan just to press the dang PTT for an unlimited number of times. I can already see it, R8e "Extra plan" ... "Unlimited PTT presses, with 100 free Text Messages, the first 100 contacts are free, and free 1000 minutes of runtime per month... (*extra minutes rate $0.01 min/per month."

For as much as I respect the engineers at Motorola who make wonderful tech, I am developing a strong distaste for the people who are making the decisions... 

Things can only be improved asymptotically once a certain threshold is reached, and afterwards each iteration is not going to be a 2x times better as the old one, it eventually gets to a state of saturation, like where we are now, where useless features just don't add much to the overall value. Radios are pretty much there, engineers can keep tacking things onto the radio, but at what point does it stop being a 2-way radio and becomes a smartphone? We are almost there with the two pieces of managerial excrement called the ION and the NEXT... This is likely how cell phones evolved from 2-way radios... but now it seems that 2-way radios are determined to go extinct ...

G.

[PACNWComms]

History in a way is repeating itself. I recall being sold a demo model of the Harris Multiband XG-100P Unity radio, VHF, UHF1/2, 7/800 MHz and GPS, several years before the Motorola APX series came out with the option of picking up to three Rf modules. Then working for the military and moving into the private sector (emergency response for the oil industry), the idea was this radio would replace the dual band IS rated Vertex Duo/FTH-2070. Well, that did not work well at all, the Harris radio was way too expensive, and the software was not developed enough for many of the features to be useful. Only federal agents, with taxpayer money behind them could purchase them.

The one radio I bought required my computer MAC address, and hard drive to affiliate with Harris servers, and Radio Program Manager could only be placed onto this one computer. Then the hard drive crashed, and it was a verification of paperwork with Harris, essentially doing the same process as setting up a new computer with software, registering it with Harris, then connecting to the Internet to verify all over again. Nothing like Motorola CPS where I can download it and load it to every programming computer I have. 

Fast forward a dozen years and the Harris Unity is discontinued, along with the Thales Liberty, a similar attempt. The APX7000 is ending its production life....and the APX8000 is taking over. Then they bring out the APX Next and Trbo Ion.....which is too expensive, going down the path of subscription as a service (wish I had a copy of that email where my Motorola rep said "since we are all enjoying software as a service".....said nobody in my org ever), and ending product lines earlier than they stated only months prior.

I did notice that the APX NEXT and Trbo Ion has not been pitched too hard, I think they realize these models are chip intensive, and they can't even get APX4000's delivered on time, stressing the APX line over Trbo for higher profit margins (I have many XPR7550e's on order since March of 2021 that have yet to deliver). This will be an interesting few years, but the decline of Motorola has been in effect for a while now. Think tech support and production in Mexico, Malaysia, Israel and Chicago, in descending order. Schaumburg is not what it used to be. This may not end well. Although, I may now have to scramble for more XPR7550e radios to tide some sites over until the APX transition.

[gman1971]

I was really hoping for a better radio than the XPR7550e, but after reading the FCC application and watching the pictures, there is zero reason for me to upgrade my XPR7550e to the R7 radio. Maybe that is what they wanted... maybe not... but if me, who operates only a small fleet of XPR radios thinks this radio was the wrong thing to put out... I am certain people with a lot deeper pockets than me will think alike. 

Seems like the new R7 receiver has improved selectivity, that is if the rumors are to be trusted; but that isn't saying much when the 7550e was already pretty much the top of the hill... Its like saying a race car that laps the field at 10 seconds a lap now will lap everyone at 11 seconds a lap... The rumors also claim better audio, with a better noise suppressor, but again, those are minor incremental updates. IMO not worth trashing every XPR accessory produced since 2006 which has worked for the last 3 generations of XPR radios. I always claim the most important thing on a radio is the receiver... but that is based on the assumption that you can actually program the frequencies on it... the best receiver is useless if I can't program the radio because I don't have Internet.

The jump from 6550 to 7550 was a substantial improvement, and the 6550 was relatively new when it happened, but the 7550 had a better color screen, vastly improved receiver, and while batteries were changed, the accessory connector remained the same, and used the same CPS, with the same programming cable and process. Then Motorola did the right thing, they took the 7550 and improved it to make it the 7550e, better receiver, and much improved battery life.

But now, the jump from the 7550e to R7 isn't the same because there are almost 2 decades worth of accessories and microphones for the XPR radios. And the CPS is not the same anymore, and will likely require internet connection and who knows what else just to get it working. 

Disappointment, is probably how it feels to me, b/c even though I claimed the XPR7550e would be the last radios I'll ever purchase, I really wanted to be wrong! :D, I wanted this R7 to be the XPR7550e killer so I could get me one with a super-duper fancy screen and become the ultimate snob, calling these ancient XPR7550e obsolete pieces of crap... hahaha (which ironically that is how Motorola called the XPR7550e in their "promotional" video, hahaha)... but I guess some things, sometimes, are not meant to be.

 

As for the Motorola decline, indeed... they went from having radios on the Voyager I & II space probes, radio comms for Apollo missions to "nickeling and diming" customers for entitlements and "radio as a service BS..."

G

[PACNWComms]

Courtesy of the FCC. More info on the Motorola R7 radio.

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143/External-Photos/External-Photos-5510180

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-5510186

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT7143/Users-Manual/Manual-5510184

 

[Lscott]

8 hours ago, gman1971 said:

 I always claim the most important thing on a radio is the receiver...

That needs to be hammered in to everybody's head! If you can't hear the other station nothing else matters.

People get so hung up on how much power does the radio have, 5 watts, 15 watts, 50 watts plus. Seems sort of silly to get other people to run high power because you radio's receiver sucks.

Some of the crappy CCR's are fairly deaf and or very prone to receiving signals that are not on the actual frequency being used. I have one that I can pickup a UHF fire dispatch transmission clear as a bell on several FRS/GMRS channels. And that transmitter has to be a good 15 to 20 miles away!! Nice looking radio, receiver selectivity sucks. It's good for a beater radio but that's about all. I haven't used it in many months. Fortunately I didn't spend that much on it.

[tweiss3]

I was without "my" truck yesterday, so I had the 7550e sitting in the cup holder, and could hear just as well over the hill on the XPR as I do on my mobile rig. My office is just on the other side of the ridge, but it's 200+' in elevation difference (1050ish to 1270ish). I normally don't pay attention because there usually isn't a conversation going on when I get out, but I could hear it all the way up the hill.

[gman1971]

And here it is, the newest R7... IMO, a step backwards, or in what these days would seem like the right direction...

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en_us/products/two-way-radios/mototrbo/portable-radios/mototrbo-r7-series.html

Same receiver specs as the XPR7550e and the ION, except this one is just "extra crippled", and when you thought the retarded bolt antenna was the worst they could do... Motorola answered the call: "Hold my beer!"

So, given it has the same receiver specs, then I see absolutely zero reason to upgrade for my application, part of me is glad because if the R7 would've been a worthy successor to the XPR7550e the temptation to get a few would've been too great to resist... they saved me a ton of money, that is for sure.

Oh well.

G.

 

 

[PACNWComms]

Received the legit Motorola brochure and documents sent to my work email account, but still no pricing. I foresee buying as many XPR7550e radios as possible to keep consistent radios in use a while longer, until APX transition takes place. With the current supply chain issues with receiving product from Motorola, unless these are very cheap and available (made in USA or possibly Mexico if they can get them over the border fast enough), these won't hit the streets for a while. Not holding my breathe.

[gman1971]

I am reposting this from my other forum... I think @PACNWComms might be interested to know this info...

"Well, seems like Motorola might've done something right after all... LOL... The new cradle charger PMPN4576A is a lot smaller, has guides for the radio (might be easier to insert the radio) and then, IMO, it looks a lot better than the old clunker from the 6550 days. The Shop Motorola Solutions page indicates that it will also work with the older radios too. Remains to be seen if it will screw the firmware/calibration of the older IMPRES batteries. Might pick one up just to try it... and if they are good then I'll probably replace most of mine.

Also, based on the information available in the brochure, the R7 WILL work with CPS 2.0... and while CPS 2.0 has its own issues, its certainly better than being stuck with "cloud programming""

[PACNWComms]

8 hours ago, gman1971 said:

R7 WILL work with CPS 2.0... and while CPS 2.0 has its own issues, its certainly better than being stuck with "cloud programming""

Still trying to get my salesman to get me pricing, as MSRP was listed by one vendor as $1716.00 (that better have a SUC Single Unit Charger included), but good to know on CPS 2.0 instead of MOL cloud.

Although, I did just inundate him with a huge XPR7550e/XPR5550e/APX4000/APX6000XE order as well, he has been busy this week. (It's easier for me to spend corporate money than my own too....lol). Thank you for the additional info on the R7.

[Radioguy7268]

I'm prohibited from disclosing dealer costs, but I can tell you that the R7 isn't all that much more than the XPR7550e. Less than a 10% boost in dealer cost over the comparable XPR's. The $1716.00 is the List Price for a VHF/UHF full keypad "enabled" model with standard accessories.

The R7 does need to "phone home" in order to set the region it's going to operate in. It appears that once you do the initial programming, the radio will operate offline. For now.

The "vision" is that radios should be sold to organizations with a 5 year timeline for replacement/upgrades. Mixed fleets are a thing of the past. You're just not going to have XPR6550's or plain 7550 (non 'e') radios sharing channels or systems with the R7. 

Phased implementation is out. Forklift upgrades are in. Better hope the IT department is on site and engaged. Would you like a system lease quote? 5 year terms work out to just (a few hundred) pennies per day per unit to operate.

The R7 is not a radio intended for hobbyists. That won't stop some people.

[PACNWComms]

15 minutes ago, Radioguy7268 said:

The "vision" is that radios should be sold to organizations with a 5 year timeline for replacement/upgrades.

That 5 year timeline (plus 5 years of support) has been an issue in my field. But, in Motorola's benefit, it is also pushing my org toward an all ASTRO based system of systems, instead of a combination of HT-750 analog sites, Trbo XPR7550/e sites, and XTS/XTL/APX900/4000/7000/8000sites, kluged up networks spread across the country.

Motorola has also pushed their competitors to do the same. However, the software as a service will be an issue if that portion continues. Some places do not want IT to merge with radio, and have the money to go elsewhere if needed. I know of one large system that went Tait, and is benefitting from that divergence from Motorola. My org is exploring that possibility as well....but has been Motorola so long it most likely will not happen.

The first Motorola handhelds this company purchased was the HT220 Handie-Talkie FM Radio.

[PACNWComms]

Received the Motorola Whitepaper for the new R7 Trbo series radio that is supposed to replace the XPR7550e, which has an expected end of production date for mid or late 2023. The paper really pushed the better receive audio and noise canceling transmit in high noise environments. However, until I find video of this audio side by side with a XPR7550e, it is just subjective rhetoric. 

Motorola R7 Whitepaper.pdf

[Radioguy7268]

I also have a hard time believing that a speaker hidden behind the keypad & LCD will deliver better audio, but I can tell you that the front & rear facing dual microphone setup should deliver outstanding noise cancellation and clarity. Speaker mics that have that feature certainly do.

 

[PACNWComms]

49 minutes ago, Radioguy7268 said:

I also have a hard time believing that a speaker hidden behind the keypad & LCD will deliver better audio

Yes, this speaker being behind the keypad, and then the use of Motorola Trbo Ion series accessories is my issue. Ion series Trbo equipment is more expensive than the legacy XPR7xxx/e series accessories, and most of the company has been using XPR7k series radios for a few years now, with stock on hand accessory wise.

My employer also has APX900 and APX4000, essentially similar radios to one another except the APX4000 has dual microphones for the noise cancelling and as you mentioned, it is noticeable in high noise environments. Forklift drivers end up getting APX4000's as a result, with custodial personnel getting APX900's as they are not working during business hours and it is a much quieter environment.

It will be interesting to see how much the audio difference really is, transmit and  receive. If anyone finds video at some point, please post here and any other radio related site, it will be watched for sure.

[gman1971]

@PACNWCommsExactly, means now you have to stock on new components, new batteries. The APX900 and the XPR7550e and the APX4000 all share batteries and accessories. The 7550e works with most current APX components, not all, but most of them work anyways. Also, is not that the 7550e was bad on receive audio. With the right profile the radio can sound pretty good. Also, we are talking about a low-bitrate vocoder, not hi-fi atmos audio quality here... so there is only so much you can do to improve the signal.

@Radioguy7268Agreed, the speaker behind the keypad is not a good move IMO. As for the noise cancelling, is not that the 7550e didn't have decent noise cancellation. The Advanced Noise Suppressor works really well under all conditions I've tried it. 

G.

[tweiss3]

Does anyone have a photo of the R7 next to the 7550? I'm interested in a size comparison. IMO, the 7550 is the perfect size, especially in my Motorola chest rig, any bigger and I'd have an antenna in my neck.

[gman1971]

Just now, tweiss3 said:

Does anyone have a photo of the R7 next to the 7550? I'm interested in a size comparison. IMO, the 7550 is the perfect size, especially in my Motorola chest rig, any bigger and I'd have an antenna in my neck.

No photo, but the R7 is larger and heavier than the XPR7550e

dimensions are in mm, weight in grams.

G.

[tweiss3]

That weight and size difference doesn't seem too bad. Its more of a width increase than anything.

Speaking of MOL, does anyone use the HHCH (PMLN7131) with their mobile?

[gman1971]

15 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

That weight and size difference doesn't seem too bad. Its more of a width increase than anything.

Speaking of MOL, does anyone use the HHCH (PMLN7131) with their mobile?

width and height.

I have several HHCH heads for my 5550e radios. 

G.

[tweiss3]

12 minutes ago, gman1971 said:

width and height.

I have several HHCH heads for my 5550e radios. 

G.

Are they as convenient as they seem like they should be? Looks like a good way to save tons of space, be hidden most of the time, and operate nearly identical to the HT. Too bad they double the cost of the radio, or they would be a no brainer.

[gman1971]

Just now, tweiss3 said:

Are they as convenient as they seem like they should be? Looks like a good way to save tons of space, be hidden most of the time, and operate nearly identical to the HT. Too bad they double the cost of the radio, or they would be a no brainer.

Yes, I think so. They transform the 5550e into an XPR7550e with 50W.