berkinet

Ian. You titled this topic “A Beginners Repeater.” But, then you describe a very complex system that nobody here seems to fully comprehend. Then, when people suggest you simplify things, you respond that each suggestion offered won’t meet your beginner needs. Finally, you seem to misunderstand or misinterpret parts of Part-95 and in so doing, you seem to go in unsupportable directions and avoid other, much simpler, potential solutions. At this point, I too will join the growing crowd watching from the bleachers, at least until you can provide a simple use case example that does not involve any discussion of how it should be done. Something like: “4 people are hunting in the woods and a 5th person is coordinating their a actions from a fixed location and they need to share their ideas for lunch.” Really, something that basic would be a good way to start getting the help you have requested.

Precisely. You cannot link to, from or between GMRS repeaters or radios using another service, like FRS. However, the OP has stated he would like to link repeaters using wired links, but opined Internet links were outlawed because of the prohibition on landline inter-connectivity. I think he misunderstood, since the landline prohibition refers to connections from the PSTN. Linking by VoIP is allowed. And, then again, he just stated repeaters would not be talking to other repeaters, so I am not sure what the linking is about? Perhaps a good example of how this system would be used, and without any discussion of architecture, would be helpful.

Maybe. But, unless anyone can understand what the heck you are trying to do, I wouldn’t count on much of an income.

So, you want Rolls Royce features at Hyundai prices? Also, you want the mobile repeater to have high power output (>10 watts). But, presumably the mobile repeaters will all be talking to another fixed repeater (they can’t talk to each other). So, why the need for all that power? Just use 10 watts and a good high gain rooftop mounted antenna.

Before anyone spends too much more time on this topic... note that, as seems to happen too often here, the OP has not logged in in 3 days (since Oct 8) and has, therefore, not seen any of these responses.

Yes. To protect the residents from the rampaging hoards to the east...

The actual wording is “...under the authority of...”, not, “...using the call sign of...” If you give people permission either explicitly, or implicitly by allowing them to use your repeater, then they are operating under your authority. In which case, sub-paragraph (2) applies... (2) The GMRS stations whose communications are retransmitted are properly identified in accordance with this section.

I don’t know how much clearer he could have been: ...The DATA UPDATING in our main listing website is the responsibility of the owner to keep current. Old or out dated information may exist, but MyGMRS takes no responsibility for the lack of accuracy in any listing at the main website. In any case, determining activity, or inactivity, is not that easy. Some nominally active repeaters may be silent for weeks on end, or down for repairs. There is no way the managers of this site could know, and they are not likely to put a lot of faith in anecdotal reports from operators who are not otherwise privy to the operations of the repeater.

I think you are reading things into the rules that are neither written nor implied. 95.1705(d)(2) & (3) do not, per-se, establish open and closed​ repeaters. They just say an operator may limit access to a repeater. Similarly, 95.1751©(1) uses the phrase under authority of.... That is not the same as saying only those that have been specifically allowed. If my repeater is open to all GMRS users, they transmissions through the repeater still operate under the authority of my license. As I noted previously, the decision to have a repeater ID or not is really up to the repeater operator since they are the one(s) who will have to answer to the FCC for any violations. As you stated above, That's my take on this... other opinions and translations may vary.

While the net effect may be as you state, in fact, I do not believe there is any Part-95 language that differentiates open from closed repeaters., There are just repeaters. Now, the repeater owner is responsible for making sure the repeater operates in compliance with the rules, so... if there is any doubt the users of the repeater will identify themselves as dictated in Part-95 , then, the owner would need to take stems to have the repeater identify itself at appropriate intervals. However, as long as the repeater users identify themselves properly, I do not believe there is any legal requirement for the repeater to identify itself, or for the users to provide identification of, or for, the repeater.

See the second post in this thread from PastorGary.

For those interested, the link to bluemax49ers' Ebay shop is https://www.ebay.com/usr/bluemax49ers

Since this discussion of used GMRS equipment is a topic drift from the original antenna topic of this thread. I have created a new topic to continue the equipment discussion... if there is interest.

The Midland MXT275 discussion has drifted off-topic to include a discussion of used commercial quality radio equipment for GMRS use. I thought, perhaps, there might be a benefit to have a listing of specific radios, accessory requirements (programming cables and software), availability and resources. It would be nice to have this information in a database of some sort, but a thread, perhaps sticky, might also do the job. The goal would be to give people a place too look for options to buying new GMRS equipment. The basic information, as noted above, would be: Radio manufacturer, model, and, if applicable, variants.Price range for used equipment, and potential sources (usually ebay)Warnings or tips on what to look for or avoid.Programming hardware requirements. (I.e. programming cables) and, if available, sources.Software. Application name; most recent version; download location; and price. (for legally available software only) Any other usage and programming notes that would be helpful to users.Part95 compliance information.Recent radios discussed were: Kenwood TK880-1 (25 watt) or TK880H-1 (40 watt) TK863G (25 watt) Motorola M1225Motorola XPR7550Motorola CDM1250Motorola HT1250

For which radio?

Yes. Though, it is not easy to actually find the software on their site and then set up an account. But, the biggest stumbling block is the price. Usually anywhere from 3 to 10 times the cost of a used radio. BTW, on RadioReference, requests for Motorola programming software are discouraged and rarely answered. Regarding software, a good place to look for radio programming software is https://hamfiles.co.uk

The radio PastorGary noted is available;e for $45 on ebay. And, here is a great little Motorola M1225 for $50. (Caveat, the software for the Motorola radios can be hard to find. But, it is available.).

... and another. It seems people arrive at GMRS by three routes... Directly, having had no prior radio experience, via CB (10mHz), and Ham radio. It seems those coming from CB tend to be brand oriented and tend to want to have certified equipment. On the other hand, hams tend to be more interested in function and less rule oriented. Those coming directly to GMRS, well, I haven't got a hypothesis for that. So, While hams tend to be willing to look at used equipment and commercial equipment that can operate on the GMRS band (though, not always legally) CBers want a clean approved package want manufacturer support and are less willing to take the possible risk with used and non-type accepted gear. So, what's the point of this comment? Former CBers might benefit from moving a little out of their comfort zone and find not only some nice bargains, but some high quality equipment. OTOH, this comment could just be the result the late summer doldrums and an attempt to find a pattern where none exists. YMMV.

Short answer, sometimes you can't. Longer answer. It is a little like religion, it takes a good dose of faith. Well, assuming you have monitored this repeater for very long periods and heard nothing... If you know the access tone(s) you can key the repeater up and listen for the squelch tail. If they don't have a hang timer (no squelch tail), then you need to listen to the repeater output on another radio. But, if you don't have the access tone info (and don't want to spend a day trying all of the known codes), and don't hear anybody on the repeater, then, it is a little bit like if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it make a sound? Or, maybe like division by zero, it is undefined. Actually, the best analogy may be Schrödinger's Cat The existence of the repeater is determined only when you access it.

At least in my GR1225, that is an option. I believe tones that are reinserted by the repeater are about 3db louder than times that are passed through.

CAVEAT: I know almost nothing about Midland radios. But, often it is possible to program features and settings with the programming software that cannot be performed through the radio controls. Unfortunately, a quick glance at the mxt275 manual does not suggest it can be programmed externally and there is no CHIRP support for Midland products. However, the radio does have a USB port. While ostensibly for charging, it may have other hidden functionality. Try looking on some of the radio forums and some intense googling. Good luck. Fiollow-up: I have looked further and it doesn't look like there is any way to program this radio externally.

Until the day they are, like when he needs to relay messages between a boat and a land-mobile user. Of course, it would be quite unlikely to transmit on both at the same time. Still, it never hurts to plan for robustness.

When I mentioned water I was really referring to where the boats that you are going to transmit to would be located. If you will be transmitting over more than 180º, then you should probably stick with an omni. But, I re-read your original post... Are you going to use GMRS only through the repeater, or will you also want broad omni-directional coverage? If you are only using the repeater, than a nice compact UHF yagi might be a better choice. If you do need the j-pole,then, since the mast is fiberglas, you should not have any issues mounting the j-pole along side the mast, with the VHF omni-antenna on the top of the mast. Take a look at this web page for more information on mounting j-poles.

I would also suggest using a directional antenna for the VHF radio. Since Marine VHF is only legal to use when communicating between or with a boat, unless you live on an island, it is likely the water is within a specific arc from your home. Depending on how wide that arc is, you should be able to find a suitably matched VHF directional antenna. Any propagation loss you get from mounting the antenna below your UHF J-Pole would be offset by the gain. You should also look for an antenna that has low radiation upwards or downwards, since most boats tend to be at water level . And, make sure you mount it vertically. http://www.antennaskit.com/files/Yagi-4-elementi_30_150-300.JPG You can also use an outrigger as PastorGary suggested. That would work must better with a directional antenna than an omni, since the antenna mast itself would not be in the path of your beam - and would, probably, act as an additional reflector..

Ok... I am back at a real keyboard and can add a little to my previous answer. To your question as to the best radio for your needs. The answer really is, you have to decide that. There are many factors that impact how good a radio might be. You mentioned mobile use and scanning. There are other attributes as well, size, power, audio quality (in and out) low signal performance (reception) ease of changing settings, ability to receive other services,etc. In your post you mention searching/scanning for repeaters and channels. Since GMRS is a defined service the number of channels you can listen to is fixed at 22. Plus, you can transmit (and listen if you want to) on an additional 8 channels used as repeater inputs. In practice, you cannot really scan to find repeaters, just occupied channels. You might be right under a great repeater, but if it's not in use, you won't find it by scanning. In addition, just finding a repeater is not enough. You also need to have the access tone (PL) and, in most cases, permission to use the repeater. If you drive different routes all the time, there is little you can do to preset your radio, so a flexible scanning system and an easy ability to detect and set PL tones is important. On the other hand, if your route is regular, a programmable radio with lots of channel/memory locations (like the Motorola CDM1250) would let you preset frequency PL pairs for each of the repeaters you might encounter. Hope this helps.