chuckn
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Posts posted by chuckn
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But again, if kids are equipped with FRS radios, the they do not need to identify. The only rule is to not cause malicious interference, i.e. do not jam other people. To practice common courtesy, in other words. GRS-to-GMRS communications are perfectly legal.
You may still research roof antenna for your V1. Because from inside the house the range will be abysmal. And if house is stucco, then forget it, it's pretty much a Faraday cage.
That's true. My grandchildren will only have the FRS type which appear to be more durable. I remember using a CB back in the '70's. I was one of the few that stated my license.
I am reading there are ham operators with repeaters for FRS and ham operators not having GMRS license.
There is much discussion about annoucing call signs on other forums. Like I said, I am not opposed to the rules, but I do not expect a 4 year old to remember to annouse his call sign every 15 minutes.
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As the license holder of record you're responsible to insure those operating under it follow the rules. Kids have to learn rules for everything as they grow up. GMRS shouldn't be any different.
As far as paying a fine the FCC, when they issue one, they don't screw around. Somehow getting one for $7,500 to $10,000 is sort of scary. They want to get your attention and make a point. And yes they most certainly have in other radio services for failure to ID, unlicensed operation, willful interference etc. I don't know about GMRS but it wouldn't be any different.
A number of the cases I've seen the FCC contacted the party informing them of the rule violation(s) first. The fine(s) get issued when they party continues to ignore the rules and the FCC notices. Oh, they also have a habit of taking the equipment too in some cases along with issuing the fine(s).
I remember years ago asking somebody at the local FCC field office here what they do with all of the confiscated equipment. I was told it goes to a local junk yard straight into the crusher. None of it ever gets sold or returned to the owner.
I am not making light of the rules. The topic is using radios in a neighborhood with children.
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You are free do do as you please. But what you cannot do is change the rules of the radio service (GMRS) you operate under. A condition of your license, that you agreed to, is to follow the rules.
Part 95E § 95.1705
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Individual licensee responsibility. The holder of an individual license to operate GMRS stations is responsible at all times for the proper operation of the stations in compliance with all applicable rules in this part.and
(d) Individual licensee duties. The holder of an individual license:
(1) Shall determine specifically which individuals, including family members, are allowed to operate (i.e., exercise operational control over) its GMRS station(s) (see paragraph © of this section);
It is no different than operating non-GMRS certified equipment. People are free to do as they please. But, it is not ok to tell others that is an Ok thing to do. And, by the way, why not teach your grand-children about proper radio use? They might not only find it interesting, but they might also take the use of the radios more seriously, and even develop their own interest.
The point of having a radio is to be able to communicate. I'd rather pay a fine than cause a child not to reply out of fear. If you want to focus otherwise or if you think rule keeping is the reason to own a radio, as you say, you're free to think otherwise.
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Depending on the child, one cannot expect a radio with a decent antenna to survive for long. For our upcoming camping activities, even if the materialize at this point, I am planing to get a four pack of durable radios to suppliment my BTECH V1's that I will let the adult moniter and use as a base camp unit. I do think for our use, the GMRS will suffice with some preplanning. It occured to me that if we are on the same channel, one group may be able to act as a repeater and communicate with a group between the base camp and the one farther away.
As to what is appropriate, expected, or a FCC rule, the point of having the radio is communication, not complying to a rule. Sure, if you are an adult trying to talk to a stranger 100 miles away, by all means use your expected call sign. When it is my grand children, that is the least of my concern.
And, one can be old and wise, but more often, old and contentious appears to rule the day. I wish more had a lick of sense.
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Adults can quickly ruin a good idea.
I agree with the OP, having radios in the neighborhood and learning how to use them so they get the best results, is practical and fun. I would not be concerned about radio traffic. GMRS radios don't reach that far without a repeater and trying to use one seems to be more trouble than its worth unless that's your hobby.
I would recommend a sturdy radio...LOL!!!!
For camping, if that ever happens again, I am considering one of those Midland base stations. This way if a group is out biking and another at the lake, we can converse.
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That is a huge step in the wrong direction, IMHO. We need FRS & GMRS to stop sharing frequencies. Let FRS be low power narrow band and give GMRS operators more wideband frequencies. I'm tired of sharing the channels with 4 and 5 year old kids screaming at their cousin who is only 30 feet away, about how much they love play dough.
And I am sure you have much more interesting things to discuss...LOL!!
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Well, I was wrong. The frequencys did generate activity from local EMS and fire department. Pretty cool litte radio.
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I'll experiment more as time permits with various frequencies.
Question, I have found several GMRS repeater frequencies in my area. If I type in these frequencies in my V1, will I then be connected to the repeater? Does this mean that if my other radio is also connected to this same repeater we may be able to communicate over a longer distance. In other words, lets say I am 30 miles apart from my son. We would not be able to communicate. However, is we both put in the same repeater frequency and with minimal obstructions, would the repeater frequency possibly allow communication?
All I did to connect to the local weather frequency was to type in the frequency which seemed so simple. Is this the same with other applications?
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There are various web sites where you can look up this kind of info. One example is below.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/
In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?Thank you. I programed some of the local fire and police frequencies with the V1, but heard no activity.
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While n4gix is 100% correct, I would add two notes.
#1. The GMRSv1 will only let you transmit on the assigned GMRS frequencies.
#2. in a life threatening emergency, I.e. severe injuries, not just a bear ate my food, I would trade a life for getting yelled at or even prosecuted for illegal use of the radio.
And, to your other question... There used to be all kinds of "radio listening" guides which listed things like Police, Fire, USFS, BLM, Railroad, etc. frequencies. The is probably something similar on the net. BUT, most public service agencies have moved over to trunking radios systems (a tiny bit like cellular frequency assignment) so there is no one frequency to listen to. However, i many places the Forest Service, Park Rangers, etc. may still operate one or two direct channels. And, one more caveat: there is a good chance that any channels you find will be on VHF.
Yes, understood and the manual said as much. I was asking in case it was possible not that I would do it. Your point of litigation and saving my ass is well taken.
You've been helpful so thank you. The V1 has two modes, one pre programed and the other for programing. I assume I program similarly as I did to access my local weather channel, some combination beginning with 162,4 or 162.5. To access a repeater in this mode I would first program the 1-22 GMRS channel. If I understand, I would then have to program the repeater code.
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ALL frequencies not covered by your license are "listen only..."
Transmitting on those frequencies will only lead to a whole lot of legal hurt. Don't do it!
Yes, I understand as the manual said as much. These are listen only, but the radio can access.
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Simple question. Complex answer.
Basically, any radio that is not Part95E certified is illegal to use on GMRS. But, to go further...
First, you have to define "ham radio." There are lots of ham radios that do not operate in the GMRS band, so for those the answer is simple, no.
Then, UHF radios that cover the GMRS band and are only Part 15 certified, or not certified at all (hams can build their own radios) and legal to use on the ham band but not on GMRS.
And finally, GMRS radios will not get certification if they can be user programmed to operate on non-GMRS bands.
However, from a practical standpoint, there are plenty of radios that can transmit on the GMRS band and are not Part95-E certified, and this includes most UHF "ham" radios. Although, in some cases an internal modification is necessary -- usually involving snipping a couple of jumpers or resistors. Not this modification is explicitly prohibited by the FCC rules.
So, final answer. Most, if not all, ham UHF radios are capable of operating on the GMRS band, but not legally.
Thank you for explaining. The manual says this radio is Part 95A and complies with part 15.
The manual says "the channels labeled REPT run through repeaters that are set up for GMRS usage. Use the channels if you have permission from those that run your local repeater or GMRS channels."
Does this mean the radio automatically connects to a repeater nearby? The reason I ask and back to the hiking application, there are two repeaters near areas where I hike.
Perhaps it will become clear once it occurs later, but how will I know when the radio and repeater connect? I have heard it said that someone could hear the repeater.
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The BTECH V1 arrived yesterday. I was able to program the weather and FM stations. Then how to revert to pre programed GMRS channels. I look forward to trying these radios out soon. I am curious if the pre programed GMRS channels are repeater capable.
I like that one can monitor two GMRS channels. If these radios work out, I might invest in additional units.
In the programing mode, I assume one could find the frequencies of government channels like the park service or local police channels. Some may be listen only. Does anyone know how to find out what frequencies are used?
Are HAM radios GMRS capable?
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If you seriously need to be able to call for help, take a look at:
satellite phones ($200 to $1,000+ for the phone and $0.50 to $2 per minute)
or
Personal Locator Beacons ($200 to $300)
Both of these options are reliable and designed for the type of situation you describe. Other solutions, such as that described by @marcspaz, will also work, but will be more difficult to use and will be inherently less reliable. Also, if you know the area where you are going and know that cellular phone service is available from high locations, that may be your best bet.
And, as always, keep in mind: P.P.P.P.P.P.
Nothing of serious concern. I was just thinking it would be convenient if it would work. Thank you for your suggestions.
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Get your Ham license and buy a 7 MHz (40 meter) HF QRP radio, a small 35 ah battery, a folding or rollable solar charger (optional) make a wire antenna you can toss up in the trees. Call Mayday.
No one local will hear you, but many people throughout the nation will and you can ask for help. I have had someone give me grief about this in the past, saying it doesn't do any good to talk to someone on the radio who is 3 states away and my response is always the same.... if I'm stranded in the mountains of Virginia, someone in Georgia, Maine or California can call 911 just as easily as someone in a nearby town.
Yes, a HAM license is the plan for later. The GMRS looked to be a gateway radio. I know a HAM will get out. I hiked with a HAM operator in the '80's who made a connected me to my family at home.
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Having the right equipment is only a part of the solution. You have to know who, how and when to call. This means prior research. There is no magic button to press to find a repeater. Prior to leaving your home, you need to know what repeaters, if any, exit, what are the access requirements (frequency, PL, etc.), are there clubs in the area, do the SAR teams use GMRS (or some other service) and if so what channel do they monitor. Also, there is no point on calling for help at 2AM if that is outside of normal operating hours and nobody knows you are in trouble. Even if you cannot find someone to call, what are the park service, forest service, BLM, state, etc frequencies so you can at least monitor if necessary.
Too many people buy some radio thinking it will save them one day and then don't touch it again until they are in deep sh*t. That's when they find the batteries have corroded so badly that the internal contacts have disintegrated.
Good suggestion about finding out which frequencies the park service or forest service uses,
No, I didn't think a radio to be able to save me. It might not be even worth the added weight.
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In your case of emergency communications while hiking... unless you are at a mountain/hill top, no one is going to hear you more than a few hundred yards in some cases. 1 to 2 miles best case. That includes repeaters.
In the general population of non-radio tech people, there is a huge misunderstanding about how radios work. In the mountains, FRS and GMRS are better than nothing, but there are much better solutions.
That said, if you get to a mountain or hill top, depending on the rest of the terrain, you can possibly get 10-15 miles of coverage.
They are good for keeping in touch while camping, of course keeping terrain in mind, since it is a line of sight service.
What are the better solutions?
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I can agree somewhat with the OP. Some inital handing holding would be nice. That said, the responders have agreed that there are no ABC steps that are going to work for everyone's location.
So, perhaps stating one's reasons for getting into GMRS is important. Mine include:
1. Have a way to call for help while hiking in the national park where cell phones don't work. This will depend on the availability of a repeater.
2. Communicate with several groups of family and friends while camping.
This says that I need a repeater capable radio. I need to learn how to connect to the repeaters within range. Are there other factors I need to consider?
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You will be able to access repeaters with the V1.
One word on repeaters. Where I live most of the repeaters are on top of mountains and are easy to access. We have 2 or 3 here in town that are only a few miles away but because their antennas are at rooftop height they are nearly impossible to reach from my house.
I just got a notification from BTECH that my March order will arrive Monday, April 20. Hopefully, the owners manual will show me how to access repeaters.
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I have the V1 the 701c and the 771. The 701c is supposed to be tuned for 150-165 and 450-470Mhz so it should help with the transmit by sending out more RF. I have not seen a noticeable difference on the receive side and that is what my V1 mainly does. Guess its time to set up a transmit test to see if there is a noticeable difference. A better tuned antenna should yield a longer transmitter life so that alone would make it worth the $15.
Thank you for a useful post. I might be reaching out when my order arrives.
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I figure for $14, the 701c is a good, inexpensive additional piece of equipment and since BTECH sells both and both cost the same, why not give it a try? BTECH recommends the 701C for the V1 they sell. I am responding to the OP. https://baofengtech.com/nagoya-na-701c-commercial-155-455mhz
Not going to carry a telescopic antenna. I am not looking to be reassured or gain 30 miles.
I would like to have a radio that is marginally better than the Midland non repeater radios that I can use on a trail or camping. If I have bought the wrong radio, It was not an expensive mistake. -
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The straight answer is: No, a longer antenna will NOT help. An antenna HIGHER UP IN THE AIR will help tremendously.
Those guys walking around with a 19-24 inch long rubber antenna flopping around from the top of their walkie-talkies are on VHF ham bands, not GMRS. ...or else they are idiots.
BTECH will gladly recommend that you buy anything that they sell, if it makes you happy.
Do you have direct experience with the V1 with the original or 701c?
Kids comm across the neighborhood?
in General Discussion
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Get off your rule soap box and making conjectures and references about my family and the amount of faith that I may not have in them. No need to be old and contentious about everything.
The essence of the thread was allowing 4-5 year old children to use radios. Adults, with technical know how and the means to purchase high powered units, do more harm and break more rules than a little children talking to their friends. This was true in the 1970's when CB was popular with many running way over the watt limits. I hope the OP hasn't been discouraged in allowing his children to enjoy using walkie talkies during this difficult time of separation because you scared them.
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