jec6613
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Posts posted by jec6613
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On 10/14/2022 at 9:44 AM, gortex2 said:
The maxon is not a 100% duty cycle radio. No mobile is rated for that. To get a 100% duty cycle you need to get a true repeater. The maxon will heat up just as much as the KG.
According to the spec sheet, it'll probably heat up slightly more. The Maxon draws as much power to output 40W as the Wouxun draws to output 50W, since the Maxon seems to primarily be a VHF radio.
Without getting a real repeater, the best one can hope for is to either: (1) reduce power output, (2) increase cooling, or (3) reduce usage.
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On 10/13/2022 at 6:43 PM, WRUJ218 said:
I'm not expecting 10 miles or anything with a stealth antenna, but hoping for at least 2-3. That's pretty much our life radius. The repeaters here in San Antonio are awesome and I can get into them from just about anywhere with my HT with OEM antenna. Their network covers the entire city+. But in an emergency situation I'm not expecting to rely on them.
Getting an antenna on the roof, 10 miles with 5 watts is quite reasonable even with the dinky little ones that come with Midland's "Micromobile". Actually, in a pinch, throwing one of those on the lid of your gas grill does pretty good as well - just getting it outside of the home will help a lot.
As a rule of thumb, in GMRS in most situations, the extra height of getting it to the top of the roof will help range more than a lower-down higher performing antenna. However, topography around you will impact that more than anything - for instance, anything bolted on to the backside of my home does as well as something on the roof because of my local topography - I can reach about 1 mile in one direction, and 50+ in the other so long as I have at least 10 watts.
Quote1. If I place the mobile antenna on the roof vent, using the vent as a ground plane, what kind of performance hit (not much, or not worth it?) would I take by bending the antenna to vertical at the base of the antenna? I assume the ground plane not being perpendicular to the antenna is where the issue would be? Or would it be better that I just let the whip point out at the same angle with the roof? If I did that, then I suspect that the radiation pattern is far from ideal. Perhaps the lower gain antenna would be better because the lobes are not so directed?
Honestly, so long as you're within about 30-ish degrees of vertical, not worth it to bend the antenna. Anything under 3dbi gain is going to be effectively an omnidirectional antenna anyway, and you're close enough to vertically polarized that you can talk to all of the other vertically polarized GMRS users no problem.
At most normal antenna sizes, the polarization will matter about as much as pure antenna gain.
QuoteI don't mind coax running down the back side of my roof. But I haven't decided whether it would be easier to run the coax into the attic through the vent. In my case, trying to get the coax into the radio bedroom in that little space in the corner of the attic might be impossible, so that might be why I would run it down the roof and then straight in through the exterior wall, with a little careful routing along trim lines. If I do grounding correctly, then I have to run ground wire externally anyway. So I'm leaning towards running coax externally as well.
Whatever you do, ground it correctly and get a good lightning arrestor - I use TMS personally. Lightning strikes are no joke!
IMHO: If you have a gable, I'd run it discretely along or behind the facia board, and just drop an NMO mount into the center of the vent (maybe after making a flat area with a hammer) at the top of the roof, at about the same distance from the end as it is wide, seal it thoroughly to the roof, and then slather the connector with dielectric grease and put one of the little 2.1 db gain antennas. I wouldn't even bother with a Laird Phantom, Midland Ghost, or similar, they're really great on vehicles, but on a structure, they don't perform much if any better than the 1/4 wave verticals that everybody gives you for basically free. If I didn't have a gable, then I'd punch it down through the barrier into the attic, then seal it all up afterwards.
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A point to remember, even though Part 90 radios are normally illegal to TRANSMIT on the GMRS band/channels, there is the emergency use exception when human life and limb are in danger; sort of a Good Samaritan rule. The ability to do this in disaster situations is a valuable asset.
As scanners and receivers, they are 100% legal to RECEIVE GMRS transmissions at all times.
To clarify, if you're assisting in a disaster but don't meet the requirements of immediate threat to life/property, you can't legally transmit in GMRS either.
And nobody ever answered my question of if they're certified or not...
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So, since this is the GMRS forums, which one of these are part 95 compliant? Because, sometimes, it's not academic if they are or aren't.
- AdmiralCochrane, Jones, ajk170 and 1 other
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And best for last: Not sure why you said it, but your 35dBm statement not being important to you, respectfully, shows a careless attitude towards others who might actually need those 35dBm and not know they actually need.
This is really simple ... if I can hear 10 dBm into the noise, what does an extra 35dbm of noise get me? I might be able to filter down to 1-2 dBm into the noise, but 45 dBm is just completely pointless.
Sensitivity is almost never the problem, selectivity is - the ability to reject nearby signals and filter them out.
As for which MOTOTRBO set, I didn't ask too much about it, it was the ones the local constabulary are issued.
Also, I have to question... why are you posting about using all of these radios which are illegal in GMRS, on a GMRS forum?
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And how can you tell it hasn't desensed? All radios desense to some degree when hooked up to an antenna, and the CCRs just desense a lot more than the non CCR stuff I've tested. Again, using a repeater is not indicative of radio performance, its only indicative that the repeater works well.
G.
Usually my bar is to transmit next to it while it's listening to a very weak signal and watch what happens. Trying a few different bands, as well.
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Speak for yourself, but there are published schematics, alignment, and tune-up, and all you have to do is ask Wouxun for them. Baofeng, TYT, Anytone, etc are all different companies, of course.
And honestly, 35 dbm sensitivity doesn't matter one bit to me, their selectivity is the same, and I'm rarely in a quiet enough environment for the sensitivity to matter. This may shock you some, but I have a Wouxun DMR handset that outperforms the Hyteras and is roughly on par with the Motorolas getting in and out of TRBO repeaters, as well as simplex.
Of course, on the other hand, I've also seen Wouxuns that are only a hair better than a Baofeng at twice the price.
CCRs are a, "Buyer beware," jungle ... some gems in with the pile of manure. But for me, that's not a problem to quickly sort them out.
First off, HRO sells what makes them money, not what is necessarily good (or bad).This wasn't a comment about their quality of equipment, merely the quality of them as a supplier. They have a pretty low tolerance for dealing with a bad supplier.
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This discussion has gotten me to wonder if there is an unbiased independent ‘Consumer Reports’ like group that performs high-quality objective measurements and practical A-B tests of radios.
If said group exists, I wonder if they would be able to shed light on the degree to which some radio brands and models objectively perform better than others. Such information could help folks make decisions based on more than price.
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You do know that QST does this, right? And while it may be for the amateur community, many of the CCR stuff uses the same design with different programming for multiple uses.
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And keep in mind, GMRS certification is not just snob appeal. It actually means something. Sure, in some cases it just means the radio has limited front panel programming capabilities. But, in other cases, it means the radio is not complete shit.
Like specifically that I can take it places that I can't take a part 90 programmed on the same frequencies. And remember: the KG-805 series is a LMR part 90 circuit board, and I've never had it desense. A bit of spurious emissions, but well within tolerances (and within Motorola's specs for their own products).
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Lscott that is a very good point.
I made my decision to get the Wouxun Radio with knowledge that I may receive zero support from the Chinese manufacturer. Given, the price of the product thought, it was worth the experiment. I truly expect little or no support from them. I did/do expect some support from the dealer. If I do not receive support when I need it, I never buy products from that dealer and/or manufacturer again. Never have, never will. For me, manufacturers get one shot. So they may win in the short run, but only good support will result in my future business.
Yeh, I did not like what I read about how the manufacture treated their dealer. Had I read that before I purchased the product from BTWR I would not have purchased their radios.
As I said before, I don't know the contract, and I don't know who was the asshole in this exchange. It could be Wouxun was entirely above board and their retailer caused the problem, which isn't uncommon in business at all, and wouxun.us just threw up that message as a bit of a poison pill - again, no idea. Since HRO sells them though, I don't think they can be that bad.
And I figure that that at worse I'll get better support from this than I will with a 10+ year old Kenwood or Motorola from eBay ... not least of which because my credit card will refund it.
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Well, looks like it's live: https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2020/10/introducing-the-wouxun-kg-805f-license-free-frs-radio.html
Yikes... at $80, I'd pick up DeWalt or Motorola. The big antenna version can't be that much better, it's still a basic duck limited to max of 0 dbi.
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Somebody is not having a good experience with Wouxun radios. http://www.wouxun.us/index.php
Yeah, but that's vendor side issues. They were on the hook for warranty issues and not getting the support from Wouxun that they wanted. I'm not privy to the contract, so can't speak to the details, but clearly they wanted to stick it to them.
Cricket seems to be going all-in with them to make sort of like them their own private house brand - Wouxun generally makes products to spec for companies buying them, and their radios are built like LEGO kits ... I think they make a grand total of three distinct models, with hundreds of variations. And, to be fair, Powerwerx did this as well, and it's worked out well for them.
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Well, "Generally better than Baofeng" isn't saying much... really.
What is the use, and whats the price point you're talking?
$80 for fully programmable GMRS handheld with 100+ channels available, removable antenna, and 5W output, that uses modern computers and accessories so that I can get them new. Realistically, they hit out of their price range ... not so sure about the FRS versions they're coming out with, but I expect they'll be on par with the Motorolas at least.
The Wouxun are Superhetereodyne, and a decent one at that, while the Baofeng are SDR's - they're very different animals, and Wouxun performs much better. They're not a Kenwood, Yaesu, or an Icom, let alone a Motorola, but they give Alinco a run for their money.
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Lscott is absolutely right. Nice radio that lil Kenwood, BTW...
Steer clear of the Wouxun, Baofeng, et. all... CCR trash, I failed to believe this for far too long... and I had to buy twice... (actually, more than twice, b/c I kept buying CCRs wishfully thinking the next one would be better... big mistake.)
G.
Wouxun is generally better than Baofeng, and for my use, it's fine - and they're priced about where they should be for their performance. For my amateur equipment, it's primarily Yaesu, and not the cheap stuff, either.
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It looks like Wouxun is on a roll, and has some radios coming out for the non-licensed users: the KG-805F FRS radios.
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Personally I would go the route of batteries as the primary backup. Then, because I have them, I would use them also as the primary power source. I would keep them topped off at all times using a high-quality smart charger; one the floats when full and recharges fast.
If I were planning for extended power outages, I would then look to either a propane generator or solar panels. If generator, I would use propane because I have 400 gallons almost always available onsite and fuel does not go bad.
In the event of extended power outage, and assuming I was using a generator to recharge the battery, I would likely use a high-capacity smart charger to allow bringing the batteries up to full capacity with least amount of generator runtime, thus making the most efficient use of the generator when it was on.
I would use small UPS units only for short term specialty needs like a computer because most are not designed for long-term use and because they have generally very limited storage capacity. UPS in general are not incredibly efficient. They use power to convert voltage from DC to AC. They will also draw your batteries down when turned on, even when you are not drawing any load from them yourself.
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
All of this. A UPS is great to bridge to an automatic standby generator, but that's about it.
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CTCSS is older and more prone to spurious noise opening the squelch - weather or ambient. Additionally, there are relatively few usable tones. DCS is newer was was designed to address those shortcomings.
Both came out of Motorola, who initially was one of the only manufacturers of radios with enough frequency stability to use DCS (though others caught up quickly). Even today, some Baofeng as they age have trouble with a DCS system. Also, many older radios can't use DCS at all, and a few transitional models needed modules to enable it (usually you'd swap our the CTCSS module to a dual mode module).
So, yes, DCS is better, but CTCSS more compatible.
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Why would one use a 5 ft antenna on a 65cm band radio?
Good question ... for repeaters in flat country maybe. For a portable mount, N9TAX and Ed Fong will both custom cut to a single band 465 MHz antenna that's about 45-50cm long.
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For a apartment check out the N9tax, he will custom make a GMRS single band antenna for you. At half a meter, it's pretty short, too!
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One other trouble not often talked about with CCRs is that they're plastic. Which isn't necessarily bad per se, but the antenna tends to be searching for its other 1/4 wave and not finding it. Better radios have a 1/4 counterpoise built into the radio, or just use the radio body.
Hence the use of tiger tails improving some radios but not at all for others.
Or one can just get a half wave center loaded for an HT, but those tend to be long.
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For reference on how bad some are... The Wouxun 805G will set off my smoke detectors if used within 5 feet of them. 50W on 70cm with a Yaesu with an antenna hung next to the detector doesn't do that though.
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Have fun everybody ... https://www.timesmicrowave.com/calculator/
Also, there's insertion loss on each connector, which you can find in the spec sheet, not to mention any losses with poor assembly.
Oh, and if you're using UHF connectors like virtually all of the radios are, try re-seating the connector, because SO239/PL259 can't mate with enough consistency once you get to even VHF. They're called UHF connectors because when they were invented, UHF was 3-30 MHz.
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Superheterodyne?... hmmm, really? All CCR I own use an elcrapo direct conversion receiver, with front ends wide enough to let the Milky Way galaxy through. These POS will desense up to 60 dBm with strong adjacent signals, or in plain English: they suck. Those figures were measured with ISOTEE tests. And I have an ample collection of CCRs... yes, I know, I am dumb and I wasted a lot of money on those POS... but may my waste of money save you from wasting yours.
Yeah, some Wouxuns and Anytones are superheterodyne.
My daily drivers aren't CCR's, I picked them up to fill a niche... mostly in DMR and GMRS, but I had someone challenge me when they first started hitting the market and watched my 1990's vintage radio shack HT mop the floor with Baofengs ... may that poor thing rest in peace, it served me well for many years.
Wouxun KG-1000G repeater/ Baofeng GM-15PRO.
in Equipment Reviews
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That's super common actually. Motorola repeaters are just a pair of their mobile radio boards in the same chassis, same for Yaesu being a pair of mobile boards, Wouxun's dedicated repeater, and so on. It saves a ton on development and manufacturing costs. The real enemy is heat, as you've noted.
What dedicated repeaters do differently is cool the boards better - larger heatsinks, ducted fans, and forced ventilation are common in a front to back 2U 2-post chassis normally used for repeaters, while the mobile radio usually must passively sink the heat, or, at best, has a low noise 40mm fan. A 2U chassis can easily vent over 2kW of heat if designed properly (just look at servers), a couple of hundred watts for radios and control boards is basically nothing a single 60mm fan can't handle. At least, once you stop caring about the audible noise of the cooling system!
If I were building a repeater on the cheap, personally I'd pick up something like this and take my tin snips to the interior: https://www.newegg.com/black-athena-power-rm-2u200h/p/N82E16811192310
It comes with two 12V fans, plenty of room for the power supply and the RX unit, in a couple of hours it could easily turn two independent mobile radios into a repeater. I'd probably throw in a temperature sensor and fan failure alarm too for my own peace of mind.