WRKC935

Thank you sir for the clarification

Ok. Let me define semi private. The area we are in is typically a pl code of 141.3. So the public repeaters would be on that pl. The semi private ones would be a dpl that would be shared if someone ask with the understanding that the public repeaters be used first so the liading on the semi private units would stay quiet until the system loading required them to be used. By others. As far as expense. Yes, none of this stuff is cheap. But if equipment is no longer supported or broken many commercial entities will request equipment be replaced due to their need for very stable systems and upgrades from analog to DMR. And of course the dreaded XPR 8300 repeaters that would burn up with the slightest provocation. And those are NOT factory repairable any more. If you ship one to the factory for repair it will be sent back untouched. Can they be fixed. Yes. But you need some specialized gear to get it done successfully. I have a stack of them that were dumpster bound and parts to facilitate the repairs. The rest of it is all cast offs, site clean outs of abandoned equipment and ham fest purchases. Someone mentioned a licensed LMR freq. I have considered that. But there are two issues with it. First is those are suppose to be for business use. Second is cost. And as funny as this sounds, the 500 bucks for the repeater pair would be more than I have invested in ALL the gear for a single repeater duplexer and antenna system. I am going the route of gmrs because I can throw radios in the family vehicles and hand everyone a portable and be able to maintain communications without everyone needing a ham license and it not cost me for a frequency that the fcc will most likely not issue anyway

No, not wanting to put two repeaters up on same frequency. Wanting to put up 4 repeaters on 4 different pairs. Two being semi-private, the other two being free full access. I do love that ya'll have taken and classified the CCR's and even given them an abbreviation. And for clarification, when I say transmit combiner, think duplexer that allows 4 repeaters to transmit on one antenna. And the repeaters I have are MTR's , XPR's and Kenwoods. So no junk. So my issue is this. I don't want to interfere with anyone purposely. BUT, If I want to put up a repeater, or several and a person has taken ALL the pairs up with pay repeaters (didn't realize that you could do that on GMRS) I am not really concerned that I am going to interfere with his pay units if I am putting up FREE access units. But I am curious about what others are going to think about all that. Keep in mind that we did have a group find the current repeater that the site owner put up and were using it. And they contacted us. We explained that it was a sort of private machine, but we were in process of putting up public machines, and I am retuning their duplexer so they can get on the air. They were ecstatic that they would have access to a repeater on our tower with the coverage it provides and not just working off a 10 foot pole bolted to a house. And yes, if I had dumped a ton of money into repeaters and others came in and parked on the pairs I was using, I wouldn't be happy either... But if I am CHARGING for access to those repeaters, and the other guy has his own gear and wants to do his own thing and not PAY for access to my stuff (still not sure how you can charge for access, this ain't commercial radio), then why should I be mad about it either. And as it's been mentioned before. Commercial LMR (licensed business band radio) share pairs with different PL's and all is good, but they have licensed operating area's designated on their license (so many kilometers from the transmitter) which GMRS does not.

Does the requirement to ID still exist if you are on your owned repeater and it is IDing via Morse Code every 10 minutes?

Well, I have to ask the question. I see a lot of the required expense and such for setting up a repeater system. So lets take this to the next level and say that I already HAVE it... ALL of it. A 4 port transmit combiner, 4 repeaters, a 240 foot tower with the proper antennas (DB420 with 7/8 cable on top for receive and a DB408 for transmit 30 feet below it). Receive multicoupler... you know,, ALL of it. At a site with a battery plant, and a generator for power backup. Look my HAM call sign up on QRZ to see the HAM owned tower. So here's MY problem. There is in what my established coverage area, which covers most all of central Ohio, some folks that have pay repeaters on the air on EVERY GMRS frequency. I don't do the PAY thing. The discussions with the site owner have been a 2 and 2 setup. 2 machines that would be semi-private. For his family and my family to use for personal traffic and two repeaters that would be full public access with their PL's posted here and available for ANY GMRS license holder. The site is a partnership between the two of us where his funding and my knowledge have merged to create what we hope to be a spectacular Ham radio communications facility. This will hopefully be a "Big Gun" HF station with several non-club affiliated repeaters on all common amateur bands and GMRS with a coverage footprint covering out 3 counties in all directions. So far we know the UHF coverage runs from Madison to Muskingum East to West and from Marion to Fairfield (south currently poses issues due to some rather LARGE microwave horns) North to South. My concern is that there is NO possible way that if I stand up these repeaters that the pay site guy will not be mad as I will provide FREE coverage on at least TWO of his frequencies that he has put up that are small profile machines. And probably more than that as there are 8 total frequencies and he has over 15 repeaters listed on this site. I really don't want to irritate anyone... But I also can't find enough motivation to NOT put these repeaters on the air because someone else feels the need to turn their GMRS license to a money making endeavor. So what's the opinion on this endeavor. Or a better statement is, I am GOING to do this. Unless someone has are REALLY compelling reason I shouldn't. But I am looking to hear if anyone has a compelling reason.

First off, I HATE that this is my first post on here. I would much rather it been the HI. I'm Keith and I'm a radioholic. I can say that due to getting the bug at the age of about 8 or 10 with CB. Been an ham for over 20 years and a commercial radio tech for over 10 years. Enough with the introduction. While I can see the draw to doing DMR on GMRS, I will give a friendly warning about getting what you wish for. I mentioned the commercial radio tech thing. And I will comment a bit on first hand experience with DMR and analog on the same frequencies. First off is DMR modulation causes the signal to carry for distances that are surprising. We have two customers that are 4 counties away. Both were analog at one point and they never once had interference issues with each other yet they happened to share 2 frequencies. One was a 5 site analog simulcast system. Meaning 5 radio towers in different areas of the county, linked together and transmitting at the same time on the same frequency. Other customer had 4 different repeater sites and 4 different frequencies. So then it was decided that the second customer with 4 repeater sites needed to be DMR IP Site connect ( the technology that the ham radio DMR systems are linked with. And it was not EVER right, and they were BOTH interfering with each other, immediately. The DMR was breaking into the analog audio for the analog user, so they were hearing the DMR in places. And the fact that there was signal from the analog getting into the DMR radios for customer B... they would just hear nothing. So here's my point. We have 8 repeater pairs to work with nation wide. Customer B's DMR repeater that was interfering with Customer A was a 3 db gain antenna on a roof top that was MAYBE 60 feet in the air with a 40 watt radio that was cut back to 20 watts. Customer A's simulcast system was installed with the antennas below 120 feet to purposely reduce the coverage of the sites because by design you don't want a lot of overlap in an analog simulcast radio system. Switching from analog to DMR as far as the heard signal, at 50 watts, would be like an analog signal at 300 watts. And that pulsing type of modulation, busts right through the noise floor and is heard by analog receivers very well, and better than the analog signal. So be careful what you wish for. When this happens, and it probably will at some point. The repeater that you sometimes hear two counties over, will be busting into your analog radio when you get into the fringe of your repeater coverage area and REDUCE your effective coverage area by as much as a third, with NOTHING that can be done about it. I was told that the FCC even considered reducing the power levels for repeaters in the public safety bands to 10 watts or less for DMR users. For those of you that are in the business. The company I work for is the one that bought BACK a DMR radio system (Customer B's). That fact is pretty well known in the commercial radio community. And if you have heard about it, please refrain from mentioning who I work for or the customers out of respect. I personally would never even consider running a DMR repeater on GMRS unless it was a collaborative effort and it was only on one frequency. And that it was FREE to assess for all GMRS license holders. Don't get me wrong. DMR is great. It would bring in TDMA to GMRS and give license holders twice as many talk paths as we have. Simplify linking and create the ability to have Group Call's (talk groups... I know,,, I do the Motorola thing). But the fact that it would create a ton of harmful interference for those folks that are just wanting to do the analog thing. And enjoy the license and its benefits without needing to completely replace their radio systems, I can't in good conscience advocate for the change. Just my two cents.