Werdna

I'm not sure about your overall point, but this in particular is not correct: Baofeng radios like the UV5R And 888s are legal to transmit on GMRS GMRS radios are supposed to have certification from the FCC that they are compliant with Part 95 of the rules. To my knowledge, only a couple of the Baofeng models have any sort of type certification.

I wonder where the line is drawn for the "repeaters are not allowed" on MURS frequencies. I could set up a repeater but not use it, or I could use someone else's repeater that I had nothing to do with setting up. Is it the person who set up the repeater who would be at fault, or the transmitting station? Because in all fairness, I wouldn't expect to be activating a simplex repeater on a MURS frequency if I were transmitting. Anyway, here's a group who's none too shy about their MURS repeater: http://www.artscipub.com/repeaters/detail.asp?rid=32221&ln=WB9VR_repeater_information_on_151.880_in_Monee,_Illinois So it's definitely a thing. Probably a handful or more of them out there, and I'd bet it's not at all worth the FCC's time to go on a fox hunt.

MURS is unlicensed (technically "licensed by rule", so you can still have your privileges revoked), but two of the frequencies are/were formerly assigned as business band so there may potentially be some overlap. According to the FCC: None of the MURS channels are assigned for the exclusive use of any user. You must cooperate in the selection and use of the channels in order to make the most effective use of them and to reduce the possibility of interference. (Source) So... nope. WalMart must play nicely with everyone else on the MURS frequencies. Although the stipulation about making the "most effective use" of them would probably give some weight to a commercial business over someone who wants to monkey around with that business by messing with their communications.

I acknowledge that you meant to write "VHF" instead, but VLF is actually a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very_low_frequency Good for talking with submarines, apparently.

Try the rooftop-to-rooftop with both factory rubber ducks. Double-check that you're both on the same channel, including the A/B setting. Try a different channel. Verify that both units can properly receive (use the NOAA weather frequencies in your area, they should be a good strong signal, although they are VHF). Since you have 3 radios, try the range tests with all three (1 <-> 2, 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 3). Also swap out the antennas that way to verify, once you know you've got good radios. I've heard horror stories about the build quality of the Baofeng radios. I have a handful of them and so far they have been fine for my needs... but it may be something of a crapshoot.

Just to toss another $0.02 into the mix... we use MURS frequencies for the course marshals for my kids' school cross-country races. We're not out to 5 miles, but we have a max separation of maybe a mile or so (as the crow files) through a hilly, wooded area. I've tried MURS and FRS, and have found that MURS tends to be a bit more reliable. (I'm sure the extra power helps a bit, too.) Nice thing about working simplex is that each station only has to be within range of one other station, who can then relay information if needed. We have one spot on our course where the coverage is spotty back to the finish line area, but no problem for the marshal on either side of that spot to hear and relay. If using a repeater, you require a bit more technical prowess on the part of the user to either manage switching between a repeater and simplex frequency, or "listening on the input". For our volunteer parents, this would be a no-go. Another thing you could do is ditch the stock "rubber duck" antennas on your portable units and upgrade to a better antenna more closely tuned to your frequencies (and/or longer). This becomes a bit less convenient on VHF (e.g. MURS) since the antennas need to be longer than UHF, but may be an option if radios are mounted on a waistband or backpack with a speaker-mic. Just watch your eyes.

I guess that makes sense, I hadn't considered interference as an issue. (MURS is absolutely dead in my local area.) I appreciate the input from everyone!

Ok. I see this stipulation in Part 97 for ham radio: "No station shall retransmit programs or signals emanating from any type of radio station other than an amateur station, except propagation and weather forecast information intended for use by the general public and originated from United States Government stations, and communications, including incidental music, originating on United States Government frequencies between a manned spacecraft and its associated Earth stations." That tells me, for example, that I would not be allowed to link CB and ham radio. I get that. However, I don't see anything similar to that paragraph in the regulations for GMRS or MURS... so I'm assuming since there are active regulations prohibiting it for the amateur service, there would be active prohibitions for other services as well. Alternately, I realize there may be other general-coverage provisions outside of the specific service areas to the effect of, "In general, transmissions from one service covered by FCC regulations may not be rebroadcast on another service," or something similar. This is what I was hoping to find out, if there is such a rule.

That thread is very interesting, but it seems to mostly discuss linking repeaters via the Internet or an equivalent TCP/IP network. I did not see discussion about linkage via other frequency bands. I understand they are different, but I did not see anything in the regs for either service specifically forbidding this type of rebroadcasting. Is there another regulation somewhere that covers this type of activity, outside of the service-specific sections? (Not that I disbelieve you, just looking for the info.) Thanks!

Looks like this repeater/club may be in your area: http://www.mygmrs.com/view?id=986 To answer what I think you're asking... licensing is usually done by frequency. Amateur radio, GMRS, business/land mobile radio, and emergency services are all licensed to use different frequencies within the coverage of the Baofeng handheld. Outside of amateur radio, you are also required to use a radio that has been type-accepted by the FCC (which means they have reviewed it and have given it their blessing for use on the intended frequencies) in order to operate according to the letter of the law. Amateur radio does not require type-acceptance for radio use (but you still need a ham license to transmit on the allocated frequencies). From a purely technical perspective, you can configure the Baofeng to transmit on any VHF or UHF frequencies it covers... though I would not recommend doing so outside of ham, GMRS, FRS, or MURS if you do not want to attract potentially unwanted attention from the FCC. Welcome to the airwaves!

Ski Bum's question about expanding repeater coverage in an area with challenging terrain got me thinking. In the ham radio and business/professional LMR circles, repeaters are sometimes linked via another frequency band (e.g. VHF repeaters in an area may have a UHF link between them), allowing anyone with VHF to communicate within the entire linked area). So if I have two GMRS repeaters covering a site and want to provide extensive coverage, I could link them. I could run a hardwire between them, link them via Internet, infrared, carrier pigeon, etc... But what I'm wondering is whether I could configure a MURS link between the sites? I know MURS does not allow repeaters explicitly (I expect due to the limited number and close proximity of frequencies), but for a cross-band repeater linkage, the MURS units would be running in simplex, doing a basic rebroadcast of the traffic from the GMRS output frequency. I don't see anything in MURS or GMRS regs about not performing this kind of relay. Is this considered "store and forward"? It doesn't seem like the MURS stations would be functioning as a simplex repeater either, since they would only be broadcasting in real-time. So... where is my thinking going wrong? (Other than this being perhaps a prohibitively expensive and technically complex solution that may be over-engineered for a simple problem.)

I'm not a repeater expert, but unfortunately I think your options are going to fall into 2 categories: (1) move the repeater, or (2) add another repeater. You could try using one of the MURS frequencies from the canyon and see if you get better coverage, though if you already need a repeater I suspect a 2W handheld won't have the necessary juice to get out and back to your base on simplex. Would it be feasible to relocate the repeater to an area on the property with better coverage of the canyons? For the home base station, you could configure a directional antenna so that even if the repeater is farther away you would still be able to hit it. You could also haul out some portable direction-finding gear and do a bounce-path survey of the canyon territory. UHF does marginally well bouncing off rock faces, mountains, cliffs, etc... so there may be spots from within the canyons where there is actually an RF pathway to the repeater. Wouldn't be a quick/simple task to find them, but if there are a few then you could at least mark the spots in some way and then not have to climb all the way back out to call home. (This might also require a smaller handheld directional antenna to travel with you.) Interesting situation. Would be interested in hearing more details if you are willing to share them.

Neat! I've done this kind of comms work with ham radio, but never occurred to me that GMRS would work just as well. I assume you used a repeater? How many operators did you have covering the event?

Interesting, never heard of that make/model. Here's what RadioReference has to say: http://forums.radioreference.com/budget-entry-level-transceivers/333637-wln-kd-c1-programming-software.html As near as I could tell, someone was able to get it working with CHIRP with some fiddling around; for the OEM software, though, you may need to contact one of the distributors for the download and further instructions. Sources point to the Zastone website, but I didn't have much luck. This is the best I could come up with (you may need to use Google Translate if you don't have the Chrome browser or speak Chinese): http://www.zastone.com/product/showproduct.php?lang=cn&id=55

Well I can't vouch for that model specifically, but in many cases the stock antenna that comes with the unit isn't that great. $12-15 on Amazon can get you one that might dramatically improve reception. Although if you have an available budget of around $100 or less, you should be able to get a decent dedicated scanner with lots of extra features too.