KAF6045

I've browsed it before -- but it never mentions if there are any differences (with regards to opening up the bands) between the 878 UVII and the 878 UVII Plus. Granted, the Anytone manual for the series indicates both use the same firmware -- but at the price point of the unit, I'm a bit paranoid. Don't have any interest in mode 14; I have a Yaesu VX-8DR with flea-power 220MHz (FM of course), Kenwood F6A with reasonable power levels on 220MHz, and a Kenwood D74A which also has reasonable power on the band, and D-STAR...

Definitely an untuned unit... That's a 13.6MHz offset when GMRS uses 5MHz. The "high" port is almost in the range of repeater inputs (467.550-467.725) -- about 600kHz off... But the "low" side is 8MHz off. I'm not going to look for an FCC channel assignment chart, but I'm fairly certain there is no service class that jumps that far between input and output sides of a repeater.

The 878 series may have some idiosyncrasies but it definitely beats out my Tyt MD-2017. That model has a tendency to lock out the menu system anytime it receives a signal. Makes it difficult to adjust some settings when a signal appears and you are back to the main screen. Most of the operating buttons also get locked out -- one almost has to put a dummy channel into the each zone list just so you can dial it up and then make setting changes. Also, both A&B channels are tied to the same zone -- the 878 allows different zones on A&B. Both appear to be single receiver rapidly switched between A&B. I've not tried to unlock my 878 (newest model UVIIPlus?-- I'm not sure the third-party software is compatible with it). The Tyts (I also have the UHF-only MD390) weren't, from what I can tell, locked to Amateur -- I did stick GMR on both, along with MURS and some Maritime channels on the MD-2017 [if I ever visit the beaches]).

A dummy load rated for 100W (a 50W dummy load would barely allow you to read the meter before needing to cool down) would be a help. A short (1ft coax) between radio and dummy load would let you read the voltage under transmit conditions without running an empty signal on the airwaves.

Comparing the list of Utah repeaters (on this sites search page) against google maps, I don't see anything nearby. Don't have links for any other repeater listings searchable without membership...

Note that GMRS interstitials (current #1-#7) ARE restricted to 5W max. That said, you are seeing the same proportional reduction 50:35 | 5:3.5 -- so 70% of rated power. If the radio has automatic power reduction for high SWR I could see /some/ reduction on the 50W setting, but not on the 5W level (the power transistors should have no problem handling 5W out and a complete reflection of 5W back as that only puts 10W on the finals). Do you have some other radio you can test the meter against? (I just cross-checked my MFJ-847 (VHF/UHF) meter against a Diamond SX-200 (HF-200MHz) using the 2m output of my TS-2000 -- both showed about the same output power (85W when set for 100W). I don't believe two independent meters of different ages would have the same calibration error (maybe a 2% calibration difference -- my old eyes have trouble with needles on a scale... 85vs87W?). Having not heard back from Radioddity, I'm going through the Amazon exchange system -- a "20W" (18W in the manual specs) DB20-G is only showing 10W on repeater channels, and maybe 12W on simplex high power channels. That's a 40% discrepancy against 18W (50% if one insists on advertised 20W) (vs your 30%). The 15W MXT115 that this is to replace reported ~14W on the same meter into a dummy load.

Most likely. Were they the same or different values? Do they match the table of tones available on the radio. Also, make sure you are using a channel configured for repeaters (+5MHz offset -- so transmit on 467.xxxx, receive on 462.xxxx). For initial testing, just set the radio to send (encode) the tone, leave receive (decode) to None. After confirmation, you can try adding the receive tone (this may be useful if you are getting a lot of kids with FRS radios transmitting on the same 462.xxxx frequencies -- you won't be hearing them, though if close by they could still block repeater traffic).

Back in the day that I referenced, GMRS didn't go by channel numbers (as any authorized frequency could be assigned -- by a radio shop/dealer -- to any of the two channel slots in that class of radio), hence my inclusion of the kHz portion of the frequency, which was how one commonly referred to the authorized frequency programmed into the radio. Those radios typically had a switch or button to toggle between repeater and simplex. There was no requirement that only repeaters were usable for emergency. My mention of channel 20 was just to indicate where the .675 first appears in the "modern" consolidated channel listing. On my Midland MXT115, there is no channel 28 -- if repeater channels are active, it shows up as "20rp" when scrolling through the channels. On the hand-helds (and the DB20-G that may be getting returned for excessively LOW power output) I have named the channels similarly: simplex is named "G20 Em/Tr" and repeater is "R20 Em/Tr" (the Line A exclusion frequencies were similarly named with "...LinA" so it is easy to avoid them).

If it qualifies as GMRS, the 462MHz interstitials are allowed up to 5W ERP wide FM -- only the 467MHz (which were only granted to GMRS with the 2017 reorganization) are 0.5W ERP NFM (and the regulations state that "Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.", which could be interpreted to mean no capability for a gain antenna to be installed. This proviso does not appear on the 462MHz interstitials). If it is deemed an FRS radio, all channels are limited to NFM, 467MHz 0.5W ERP, 461MHz limited to 2W ERP (I'm probably repeating myself).

Technically, so does the 30s "Audio Relay" function (with the warning not to use on a repeater channel).

Many radios will reduce output power if they see a high reflected power level to save the output final transistors which may not be rated for the combined power forward/reflected levels. Granted, HTs may not do this, but anything with a decent power level should.

Information regarding the duplexer make/model might be useful. Difficult to "fry" a cavity duplexer, there isn't really any circuitry in one of those (they basically consist of a collection of cans that can be adjusted to tune them to frequencies is some scheme to produce band-pass filters in each direction while blocking the two frequencies from each other). Smaller units may be coil/capacitance filters and could be fried by too much power. The duplexer in the Retevis RT97 also sucks up half the power -- the repeater module is rated 10W, but the output power is only 5W. Not sure I'd really trust the smaller hand-held models (my only exposure is in "diplexers" which don't work within one band -- a 2m/70cm model to combine the output of a Kenwood TS-2000 to feed one antenna, and an HF&6m/2m&70cm on an FT-100 to feed a single tunable screwdriver antenna [ATAS-100]).

I doubt the meter is that far in error -- if it is, it means my 15W MXT115 is putting out close to 20W, since it reads in the 14W range when I last checked ? It does show my Kenwood TS-200 2m and 70cm bands are putting out 20% less than rated, which could mean half my low readings are the meter... However, my Diamond SX-200 (which doesn't reach UHF) ALSO shows the 2m at 20% below rated -- I doubt two meters could both be out of spec by the same amount, so I do feel the meters are acceptable for general categorization. Even accepting a 20% meter error, it would mean the unit is still only running ~14W on high. I did spot the manual states 18W. I could accept a 10% variation (which would mean about 16.2W at the low end), but a 40% variation is obscene. Even accepting a 20% meter error, it would mean the unit is still only running ~14W on high. I don't intend to use it for non-GMRS usage, I wanted the unlock just to free up more memories for GMRS configurations (If I did, it would be for MURS at low-power -- presuming low power is at ~2W in a proper behaving unit; manual doesn't specify what low and medium power are supposed to be... Of course, that would mean finding a MURS/GMRS dual-band antenna -- I have a Larsen glass-mount GMRS [well, UHF commercial] antenna on order to mount on the Liberty, in place of the mag-mount Midland antenna) I'm still awaiting a response from the Radioddity support message I filled out last night.

Seems to me that if you are looking for call-sign ID to then check a listing of repeaters, you might save some time if the radio has a scanning function -- it's unlikely that multiple repeaters would be sending an ID on the same minute. Granted this does mean you have check for owner and repeater listings showing that owner/call over all eight repeater frequencies rather than isolating to one frequency per day.

Other than the third power level on my ancient (way pre-2017 reorganization, at the time sold as FRS/GMRS) GXT-1050, the units would qualify as FRS-only these days. That third power level exceeds the 2W limit on the new FRS regulations (it is not stated in the manual, but one review from 2016 states 5W); that is the only thing that makes it qualify as GMRS these days. The Rev H PDF manual only states that it is GMRS based upon channels (old FRS only had access to interstitials, not the GMRS 8 main channels) -- but this manual calls the former 0.5W-only "8-14" interstitials as GMRS channels -- they only became available to GMRS with the 2017 reorganization. New versions are sold AS GMRS (but they still include the call alert tones -- pity the industry couldn't standardize on a short digital tone burst to identify a call alert, and have the actual alert tone generated by the RECEIVING unit, not sent as audio). I have a pair of Motorola units (about as ancient, one has a fault that if the battery is not fully charged, unit is high power, pressing PTT triggers a power-cycle reset). While these have the <2W high power, they also have repeater mode -- and that forces them into the GMRS category. Other than that, they are also NFM. As for fixed antennas, that was the requirement for equipment sold with an FRS tag, including the FRS/GMRS mixed class at the time they were designed. If it means anything, the Retevis RA-85 (obtained as part of their summer RT97 [old model, maybe close-out] sale) also has a fixed antenna -- even though it looks very much like an SMA rubber duck (they even molded a 180 degree raised guard lip on the outside edge of the radio body). (I had trouble getting it to accept programming with the downloaded RA85 programmer, complained, and was sent a link for the RA685Plus programmer -- used for the VHF/UHF Amateur model. That worked on the RA85 AND opened it to 128 channel slots, not the 60 slots of the RA85 programmer). The RA-85 pair, and now my BTech GMRS-v1 and -v2, are on the shelf, waiting for an occasion where the spread out family may come together (and hence under my aegis for using my call-sign, and maybe the RT97 repeater) -- a KG935 is my current prime HT.

Channel 20, .675, had been the FCC regulated Emergency/Traveller Assistance frequency back when a GMRS license specified two of the 8 main channels. Channel 19 had been a common CB road channel (and 9 is still considered an emergency channel)

As I mentioned "true FRS". For GMRS HTs, the 467MHz interstitials are also limited to NFM... In the case of the 467MHz interstitials, the intention is to minimize interference with repeaters. Repeaters operate in 20kHz bandwidth (though many radios don't offer that, they just have 12.5/25.0 bandwidths. GMRS main channels are /spaced/ on 25kHz. The interstitials are jammed in between the main 8 channels (15-22 in the unified numbering scheme). Repeater 15 is 467.550, Repeater 16 is 467.575=> 467.540-467.560 & 467.565-467.585; the interstitial is 467.5625 => 467.55625-467.56875. Note that the NFM interstitial just intersects both FM repeater frequencies. If the radio had been designed before the 2017 FCC reorganization, it may have been sold as "FRS/GMRS". In those days, FRS was only 0.5W and originally only the 462&467 interstitials (so 14 channels total). GMRS meant it had the 8 main channels, power >1W, and maybe repeater mode. With the reorganization, if it had 0.5W 467 interstitials, <2W 462 interstitials and main channels (but not repeater mode) it is classified as FRS (and should be operated on NFM only -- it is possible the FCC would consider wide FM as a qualifier for GMRS and license required).

Mine arrived today -- but I may have to send it in... Sent a report to Radioddity, hope to hear from them in the next day or two -- when I'd rather have swapped it into the Jeep where the NFM only MXT115 is located. (Not thrilled that there is no inline fuse -- since I intend to cut off the power plug and wire into the battery via the heavy-duty wiring of the ICOM ID-5100) The unlock worked, so I was able to add the additional 26 or some such repeaters I know of (16 of those are the RT97 config I created). However, I'm only getting 10W into a dummy load on High for repeaters (12W simplex), about 5.5W on Medium, and about 2.5W on Low... Those numbers barely beat out my KG935 hand held! While I don't expect to see the full rated power, I'd think 17-18W on High should be seen.

The NA-320A is tuned for Amateur bands; the nearest equivalent for GMRS is the NA-771G. Same problem with the Diamond -- tuned for Amateur bands.

If these are /true/ FRS radios, they are ONLY NFM (indicated in the manual as 12.5kHz bandwidth and 11K0... modulation). Not knowing how the receive volume is being determined -- speaking on one and listening on the other isn't going to be the most usable test (the transmitter of one could have left the factory with a slightly wider deviation). Setting both of them out like a set of stereo speakers with each set to the same volume level, and listening to OTHERS transmitting would be the simplest test (and maybe swap left/right to ensure one's hearing isn't compromised on one side ? ). If there is still a volume difference it may just be a case of different audio stage amplification tweaking (Is the volume control a real potentiometer -- which may be difficult to get both to the same position, a glob of solder could reduce the pot by a few turns of wire, changing the range it covers, etc.... Or is it a rotary encoder with the volume handled in steps? Given the On/Off is part of it, I suspect a pot rather than encoder).

I'd suggest a 40-50 foot extension ladder but you may need guy wires and ground stakes to keep it from tipping over when you climb above the roof ledge you leaned it against (eg: roof ledge at 25 feet means you have 15+ feet of the ladder /above/ the roof ledge, and will be standing about 35-45 feet up). VHF, and even more, UHF is considered "line of sight". For the most part, if you can "see" the repeater you can probably hit it even with 2W middle power from an HT. If you have a forest between you and the repeater, you are in trouble -- all that moist greenery tends to absorb UHF (less so for VHF -- but the larger wavelength of VHF has trouble getting through buildings, hence why many big city Fire departments are UHF and up; UHF wavelength gets through window panes and doorways. Any antenna you pick will need to have a gain over dipole (ie: a positive number with dBd behind it; if the antenna spec shows dBi, you need to convert to dBd: dBi - 2.1 => dBd as I recall). A 3dBd antenna will have an effective radiated power twice that of a dipole -- but there is a trade-off! The higher the gain, the narrower the emitted "beam". A dipole (or quarterwave with ground plane) is essentially a donut pattern with the antenna going through the hole. A really high gain vertical will have a pattern closer to a large diameter pancake. ADDENDUM: these HT antennas are going to be, for the most part, long/skinny whips -- 2 foot or more. This makes them somewhat annoying if you carry the HT on your belt -- any movement will cause the whip to... well... whip you in the back or side. The alternative is center loaded telescoping antenna -- but those have no give, any side forces on the antenna will transfer directly to the antenna connector, and SMA connectors aren't all that strong. This could be a problem -- if the repeater is on a tall mountain, you may have to tilt the radio so the "pancake" rises to the repeater, otherwise your signal is just going to dead-end on the base of the mountain (the donut dipole has enough signal going up and down to maybe reach the repeater without tilting). Being in the open helps. If you are inside a vehicle, you might want to consider a mag-mount (or window mount) with adapters to go from the common PL-259 down to the antenna jack (I recommend NOT putting an SO-239<>SMA adapter directly on the radio -- the stress could cause solder breaks; use a THIN 12-18" SMA<>SMA coax jumper and then add the adapter to the end of that). If inside a building, you may want to stand near a window facing the repeater. I have a 2m repeater about three-four miles from me... But it is on the other side of two forested hills, and I live in a house with a metal roof and aluminum siding. I can break repeater squelch with no problem, but I was told that my voice was unreadable even on high (5W) power!

And this is relevant to FRS vs GMRS interoperability in some way?

However, the GMRS regulations specify an ERP of 0.5W -- not a radio output of 0.5W (1-7, the original GMRS interstitials, are also now specified in ERP). That means that use of a "gain antenna" (gain over dipole, or more than 2.1dBi) is going to result in an ERP greater than the regulations allow. If you use an antenna with 3dBd gain, the radio output will have to be 0.25W to be "legal".

"Tone" is Tx only, to open the repeater squelch, but you will hear any traffic on the Rx frequency. "T Sql" is Tx/Rx, it will send the tone to the repeater, but will also require the repeater to send the Rx tone to your radio. "Tone" is safe when initially configuring. When you know you are hitting the repeater you can then consider "T Sql" mode.

Coming in late to this party, but I have a DB20-G (I've seen the hyphen in both locations, but consider the -G as an add-on for "GMRS") on order. I'm hoping the one small comment I'd found indicating a power-on unlock feature holds true (or that someone has older firmware that did support the unlock, and an installer that allows downgrading the rig). It's going to replace the MXT115 I installed a month ago (no extra channel slots, and locked in NFM). The stock configuration only allows for nine "additional" channel configurations, and they are ONLY repeater configs (provide Rx frequency, and the programming software sets the Tx). Nine slots won't even hold the sparse list of Michigan repeaters. I did, as an experiment, select the "unlocked" variant in the software menu -- that warns that all memories will be erased (big deal)... Once I'd switched, I was able to reprogram all the stock "channels" (and on repeaters, "REVERSE" and "TALK AROUND" are now options), along with all the Michigan repeaters, and a block of 16 for the RT97 configuration -- not that I'd expect to use a 5/10/20W mobile to work through a 5W repeater that is likely in the same vehicle; just go direct.