KAF6045

We can only hope, since Canada assigned those frequencies to ITS GMRS (simplex only, no repeaters allowed), that Congress eventually works on renegotiating the treaty that reserved those particular frequencies for other (Canadian) uses. Should we start a letter writing campaign? Line A is not something the FCC can negotiate.

If one radio module is used for receive and the other is used for transmit, then both will need to have the appropriate frequencies and tones programmed in. The controller probable needs programming as well (no experience, but I suspect the controller handles the repeater ID requirement, at the least)

One, HT antennas are normally quarter wave. There is nothing that prevents a quarter wave antenna from being mounted through other transmission lines. The antenna connectors have two parts, the central pin, and the shell. the shell is conductive and is what couples to the HT body. If using an SWR meter, the shell is connected through the meter to the signal source. Other than insertion losses there is no real difference in the "ground plane". Otherwise one couldn't use things like a car window mount with cable to put the HT antenna outside the vehicle. Two, I was using an antenna analyzer, not a "through" power/SWR meter. The antenna was directly connected to the analyzer port (not even a cable between them); the analyzer is the signal source, and the body becomes the "ground plane" which further couples to my hand holding the analyzer.

Haven't tried, but does https://mygmrs.com/profile/edit do anything for you?

No immediate help, but... If you haven't already done it, I'd suggest obtaining the programming cable and downloading the programming software -- and checking all your settings that way. It's too late, but a recommended practice for radios that have computer programming software is to: read the factory configuration into the software, save the file (say, as 935-Factory.xxx), THEN make changes and save under a different name, and finally write the settings to the radio.

For my 771G... My MFJ-266C (through too many adapters: N->UHF->SMA) shows an SWR of 2.2:1 @ 166MHz. (And it is reporting "Output Error" on the UHF setting, time to dig out the other analyzer). MFJ-269C shows SWR of 2.7:1 @ 467.1MHz -- not all that good for repeater inputs. And 2.6:1 @ 462.xMHz. It's actually BETTER at 160MHz (That's just above MURS frequency), with this analyzer showing 2.1:1 SWR. In contrast, a 701C dual-band is showing (MJF-269C): >5:1 SWR, unusable at UHF, and shows 1.5:1 @ 158MHz (I've seen 1.3, depending on just how I hold the analyzer), 2.2:1 @ 154MHz (MURS). The sleeve implies it is tuned for 155&455MHz with SWR <1.5:1 -- Well, the 158Mhz reading passes. The MJF-266C reports 5.4:1 @ 467MHz, 5.2:1 @ 462MHz (best UHF 4.2:1 @ 372MHz). 2.1:1 @ 154MHz (best VHF: 1.7:1 @ 157MHz) The stock VHF antenna (MURS-V1) runs 1.4:1 at 146MHz -- perfect for the 2m Amateur band; 2.5+ at 154MHz (which is why the MURS-V1 is wearing the 701C). Stock VHF/UHF (GMRS-V2) shows 1.1:1 at 147MHz -- another match for 2m Amateur. 3.0:1 at 154 (MURS). 2.9:1 @ 431MHz; 3.3:1 @ 467 (GMRS repeater inputs) and 3.6:1 @ 462 (GMRS simplex) (which is why the GMRS-V2 has the 771G -- <3.0 is better than >3.3) Put your money down, and roll the dice!

If by "kid friendly" you mean something of the type sold in "bubble packs" -- take note that true FRS (what you most likely will find in local stores) do NOT do repeaters. Not even all GMRS bubble packs (if you find them) do repeaters. Granted, my information is a bit old, from units predating the 2017 reorganization of FRS vs GMRS. I have a pair of Midland units that reclassified as GMRS due to having three power levels, with the highest breaking the new 2W FRS limit, but does not do repeaters. I also have a pair of Motorola bubble pack which reclassified as GMRS because they DO have repeater mode. That Retevis sale looks intriguing -- but I've already spent nearly $2000 on radio gear in the last few months (BTech GMRS-V2, Icom ID52A, Icom ID-5100A -- and the ton of support/options needed to fit that into my rust bucket [come on... a 9ft power cable, but an 11 ft control head cable? It's 17 feet from where the box is mounted to the battery!, and 15 feet to where the control head is mounted]). Of the bundles -- the RB23 might qualify as the kid-friendly pair; water resistant, no front-panel programming -- configure them using computer software (set time-out timer so they don't just sit with PTT pressed and make noise at them -- you will have to change the channels to wide, the factory default is narrow (FRS compatible), and probably remove CTCSS tones from the basic channels; set desired tone for the repeater config/channel). The only thing they can do is change the channel, whatever you program the side button as [Monitor?], and PTT. I'd probably pick the RA85 bundle. That model provides 30 additional "channel" slots into which one could program multiple repeaters with their CTCSS tones, even if they are using the same frequency pair. Nicer than having to carry a listing of repeater/tone around and manually changing configuration via front panel. Three power levels. Still has the problem that factory setting is NFM, not (W)FM, and they filled all channel slots with variations of CTCSS and DCS combinations -- I'd clear the tones, set all to FM, and clear out 31-60 unless I have known repeaters to put in. The RB17 combo may be a bit perplexing for entry level... dual watch, front panel programming via a limited number of buttons. And Retevis NFM/tone combos preset... So I'd be clearing those out. I suspect these radios are designed primarily for Part 90 Land Mobile use which is probably mandated to be NFM.

I just finished installing an ID-5100 in the rust bucket (along with wiring up the MXT-115, and an old Cobra CB [the one where the entire radio is the speaker microphone, except for a small power/antenna coupling box]). The manual for the ID-5100 (50W max) show it has 15A fuses, AND specifies that the power source should be capable of 20W. 13.8V x 15A => 207W draw. 13.8V x 20A (presume an instantaneous peak that doesn't blow the fuse) is a whopping 276W. I suspect it doesn't really operate at 15A, more likely at 10-12A, which brings the wattage down to 138+W

For the repeater shown previously, the channel would be RPT-18 (G4-4 in that unit's "group" scheme). Since you can't add additional channels* the experiment will need to start with Menu 13 Rx-DTC set to OFF, and Menu 14 Tx-DTC set to the listed tone. Once you start hearing traffic on the repeater, you can try setting Menu 13 to the same tone. If the repeater IS sending tones you should still hear the traffic from it (a fault in the Midland MXT-115 -- one can only enable or disable tone; no independent Tx/Rx setting). * the BTech GMRS-V2 (not the V1) allows one to create additional "channels" which duplicate existing frequency sets, but can have individually set tones -- and can be named for the repeater they are configured to handle; no need to change fiddly memory tones on a single channel when travelling between areas with repeaters on the same frequency but using different tones... just dial up the relevant channel configuration needed.

Did you try on various channels? In particular "8"-"14" which are supposed to be 0.5W Max. I did recheck my units, this time with a dummy load. The V2, this time, did beat the V1 but not by much (essentially only a half watt higher for High power). GMRS-V2 3.36 H RP26 0.43 L 3.45 H G18 0.9 L 3.44 H G04 0.9 L 0.43 L G11 GMRS-V1 2.81 H RP26 1.38 L 2.97 H G18 1.31 L 2.95 H G04 1.32 L 1.38 L G11 MURS-V1 2.1 H M1 N 0.48 L 2.06 H M3 N 0.47 L 2.18 H M5 W 0.52 L Tyt MD-390 (Part 90, sold for Amateur) 2.69 H 18 duplex 0.66 L 3.22 H 18 simplex 0.65 L 3.21 H 04 0.65 L 0.65 L 11 N 2.68 H 3.22 H 446.000 Calling 0.41 L Kenwood TS-2000 Meter comparison (100W 2m, 50W 70cm) 2.89 5 446.00 Calling 16.9 25 33.29 50 3.46 5 145.52 Calling 4.25 Via SX-200 5W scale 20.66 25 20 200W scale (exceeds 20W scale) 41.6 50 40 81.1 100 85 The GMRS-V1 is illegal for use on "8"-"14", at nearly 1.4W. The GMRS-V2 is legal at under 0.5W -- but note that this is a blanket <0.5W for Low power on the 467.xxx frequencies -- even the repeater inputs are <0.5W on low power! The 462.xxx frequencies show as just under 1W for Low power. The Tyt MD-390, programmed with GMRS frequencies, is almost legal, at 0.65W on an NFM (eg, FRS bandwidth) 467.xxx freqeuncy. Strangely, in the 70cm band it was sold for, it only achieved 0.41W on low power. Whereas high power was low on 467.xxx at 2.7W; 426.xxx and 70cm were getting 3.22W. I'm afraid the column spacing was lost between the Watt and Power level -- not a problem when power level is H or L, but for my meter comparison on the TS-2000, the power levels were 5, 25, 50 (UHF), 5, 25, 50, 100 (VHF): so that is 16.9W@25W (excel stripped the trailing 0 of 16.90).

A one mile distance SHOULD be within range for simplex GMRS power levels [2-5W HT, up to 50W mobile]. After all, you are talking abut hitting a repeater many miles away with the same power levels (yes, the repeater is likely on a tall tower, up high, so you aren't going through many layers of buildings or trees). (Yesterday I was picking up what sounded like staff at a furniture store over a half mile radius via the stubby mag-mount on my rust bucket; they may have come through even further since I'm assuming they were in either Woodland or Centerpointe/Eastbrook mall, but a) I had the rig in scanning mode and b) they may have stopped talking) -- though you may want something other than the stock rubber duck antenna (I'm presuming hand-held units). DON'T TRY the test with "8"-"14"; in the consolidated numbering list those are still 0.5W max. Make sure both units are programmed identically as to CTCSS tones (for testing -- turn them off!). Easiest way to ensure identical programming is to use the computer software and a programming cable, set up power levels (if stored with channels) and tones (as stated, start with no tones on the simplex channels). Save the settings in the software, then write them to each radio. I suggest testing on channels "1"-"7" to reduce interference from repeaters in the vicinity. Channels "15"-"22" are the same receive frequencies as (for you) Repeater "1"-"8" (in the FCC consolidated numbering, these are "23"-"30", OR a radio may use "15"-"22" with an RPTR nomenclature (RPTR15 vs GMRS15). Ensure you have working simplex (same channel, same tone [none], same power) at ranges starting from, say, opposite sides of your front lawn. Extend the distance by a few houses, and continue so long as you have bidirectional contact*. Note that if one or both are inside a vehicle, the vehicle body may act as a Faraday cage -- at the least it will attenuate your signal (get a mag mount antenna on the roof and pass a coax through a door/window with a fitting for the radio). The attenuation may be sufficient that you are not heard, but can still hear the other. * my house is a terrible RF cage -- steel roof and aluminum siding! Yet, somehow my Amateur HTs can hear my hotspot (about 10mW) from 1/8-1/4 mile away -- but the hotspot can't hear the HT even at 5W high power from that distance! It also seems to have a lot of RF dead spots in and outside -- picking up NOAA weather from the driveway I can find an 8-ft diameter circle where reception is okay, only to his a null outside that circle until I have walked 15-20 feet where another circle will be found... (I think this has gotten worse since the town buried the power lines and took down the old pole strung power cables).

You mention ground planes and coax, but do not mention the antenna. Have you tried swapping out components? In this case, the easiest would be to swap the radios themselves, and try again. If the "problem" moves with the radios you have a clue that one might be faulty. If it doesn't move, I'd take an antenna analyzer (UHF range capable) and check the SWR and other aspects of the systems (connect the analyzer to the coax after removing the radio). At the least, try with a VHF/UHF power/SWR meter (MFJ-847, say) and examine the output power from the radios (you'll need a short coax jumper to go from radio to meter). {I'm not too certain of the calibration -- my Kenwood TS-2000 is rated 50W on 70cm, but this meter showed only 33W into a dummy load... OTOH, on 2m the rig is rated 100W and the meter showed 81 while my Diamond SX-200 watt/SWR meter showed 85 [the SX-200 doesn't cover UHF], so two meters were close on that band}

You won't find DMR on GMRS units. DMR started life as a commercial / business radio mode. The type of thing used on construction sites, for example. It supports things like "private calls" (each radio has an ID number assigned, and one can specify the ID number as the target when hitting PTT) and "talk groups" (which, in my example, might be "delivery trucks", "carpenters") which can be used to isolate communications to specific groups of people while using the SAME frequency (granted, the radios will not transmit if the frequency is busy with a group one is not listening to). Most also support two "time slots" -- mixing the two via careful timing so a conversation on TS1 can be going on at the same time as one on TS2. It is only recently that some manufacturers are making DMR radios targeted at the Amateur market. FCC rules for Part 90 (Land Mobile) is that the radios can not be programmed from the front panel; they are supposed to be set up by a shop using computer software to configure the IDs, talk groups, frequencies. That is one of the disappointments with my best DMR unit -- it focused so much on incorporating an Amateur front panel programming option, which is locked to just Amateur frequency bands, that even setting it (via software) to the "business" mode (disable front panel programming) won't unlock the frequency range. Otherwise I'd add GMRS and MURS channels for emergency use (FCC rules allow one to use any radio for emergency traffic). I have an older DMR unit that I did add GMRS, MURS, and some of the Marine band frequencies (just in case I'm ever near the big lakes). myGMRS appears to have borrowed a system created for Amateur hotspots, modified/limited it to GMRS users via some central registry, AND passing FM traffic (Amateur hotspots normally only handle the digital modes -- D-STAR, DMR, System Fusion -- as that is already a digitized stream; FM needs to be sampled into some form [PCM/WAV, MP3, ?] in order to be passed between nodes). The intent of such linked systems is to provide wider coverage (Amateur hotspots are useful when one can not reach a repeater, most repeaters are often linked to a network of reflectors [D-STAR], talk-groups [DMR], rooms [Fusion], so one can effectively get the equivalent of dozens of repeaters covering different "subjects". GMRS linking doesn't support that feature.

The repeater is on .550. You'll need to check your radio manual for which repeater channel has the .550. (Judging by the skimpy manual I found, you may have multiple repeater "channels" on .550 -- so you could have multiple repeaters using the same frequency but with different tones). Your radio will transmit on 467.550, using a transmit tone of 136.5 (you can leave the receive tone OFF until you confirm the repeater is accessed). Your radio will receive on 462.550. If you have both units configured for repeater mode, then they are both transmitting on a 467. frequency and listening on a 462. frequency -- so naturally, they can't talk to each other. To do that you need to go to a simplex (non-repeater) channel where they transmit and receive on the same frequency. PS: Posting the same thing in multiple forums just results in split responses and overhead of finding information.

Which repeater? Have you programmed the correct Tx CTCSS tone (leave Rx tone off for the time being if the radio supports that -- my Midland MXT-115 mobile doesn't; if you specify a tone, it applies to both Tx and Rx)... And you are using the correct "repeater" channel for the repeater frequency? (the MXT-115 almost got that part right -- rather than pseudo "repeater" channels it has a toggle between simplex and duplex... but it applies that to all of 15-22, not on a per channel basis) 20220729 Retraction: closer examination shows that the MXT repeater switch doesn't toggle 15-22 from simplex to duplex, but rather activates/deactivates 8 repeater "channels" numbered 15-22, in addition to the simplex 15-22.

Which repeater? Are you close enough to the repeater to hit it on high power? For GMRS repeaters, you send on the 467MHz frequency, the repeater -- repeats -- on the 462MHz matching frequency. If you've been trying to hear yourself on the second unit when transmitting on the first, that will only work if you successfully go through a repeater. To go from HT to HT without a repeater, both will have to be set for the same simplex frequency (which will be in the 462MHz range -- except for the FRS 0.5W max NFM interstitials [unified numbering scheme: 8-14]).

Just because I own one from ages past... https://mfjenterprises.com/collections/dummy-load/products/mfj-260c The derating curve gives it 2.5-3 minutes at 50W before you have to allow it to cool down (2 minutes). At <25W there is no time limit. Full 300W is only 30 seconds. You will need a short low-loss coax with suitable connectors (and/or adapters) to match radio and load connectors. Note: MFJ has a version with N connector in place of PL-259 (SO-239 -- for some reason the cable plug and the equipment socket have different numbers). The N version may show a slightly better SWR at the high VHF and UHF range (makes one wonder what industry rep called the 259/239 connectors "UHF").

Local civil time (with or without daylight savings?) UTC GPS (their clocks do not run on UTC, and have to be converted to UTC for clients) Local Solar Sidereal Bessellian year Julian year

As mentioned, you probably meant "30 Amps". A 30 Amp/13.8V supply is sufficient for a 100W Amateur transceiver with a margin for overrun. Kenwood TS-2000 Supply Voltage: DC 13.8V +/-15% Current: Transmit (max) 20.5A or less; Receive (no signal) 2.6A or less Kenwood TS-590SG: same for transmit, idle is better at 1.5A or less Icom ID-5100 (50W VHF/UHF) Power Supply: 13.8V DC +/- 15% Transmit: Maximum current drain =< 13.0A Receive: Standby =< 1.2A; Maximum audio =< 1.8A Many of these are also based upon very short transmit/receive cycles with long idle periods (For handhelds I've seen specification of 6sec transmit, 6sec receive, 48sec idle, when estimating battery life). FM mode is a "100% duty cycle mode" -- no matter what you are saying, the radio using the full power level it has been set for. The SSB mode used in HF gear typically runs a 20-50% duty cycle (depends on how much compression/processing one is using) -- when there is no sound, SSB uses no power to the antenna (it does, of course, still need power to keep the circuits running). A rough rule of thumb is to assume that the radio requires two to three times the output wattage due to circuit overhead (that's why so many also have cooling fans -- to dissipate the heat: 100W out implies 200-300W draw, with 100-200W generating heat in the box). For the above three radios, the wattage comes to: 100W out/283W in [2.8X] (both Kenwoods), 50W out/179W in [3.6X] (Icom). Depending upon the internal circuits, these radios may draw more current (more amps) as the battery voltage drops -- maintaining the same wattage. Also -- unless you intend to operate with just the battery sitting on wood spacers, you have an alternator that provides most operating current and recharge of the battery while the engine is running (and likely is providing around between 13.8 and 14.2 volts). Now, answering the battery side of the question: For a car battery... Consider that a moderately new (and upper end) car battery is rated to provide "cold cranking amps" in the 500-700A range (there's a reason battery cables are so thick). That rating assumes a max of 30-seconds. Many also have a rating for run-time if the alternator fails -- Reserve Capacity. This is minutes until the battery drops below 10.5V with a constant draw of 25A. But for your purposes, the more useful rating is Amp-Hour. Not often found on "engine start" batteries, but many smaller (UPS, Emergency lighting) batteries will have this rating. Theoretically a 14 AHr battery could provide 14A for 1 hour, or 1A for 14 hours -- in actuality, the first combination will probably kill the battery in less than an hour (and the heat from that current load may /really/ kill the battery -- dig up a D-cell alkaline and hold a thick jumper wire to both ends... and be ready to drop it when it starts burning your hands). Peruse https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/car-battery-specs-sticker-numbers-explained/ Now, using some of those common radio test times (6s Tx/6s Rx/48s idle) and for the Icom... in one hour you have 6 minutes of transmit -- 1/10th of an hour => 1.3A average, 6 minutes active receive => 0.18A, and 48 minutes of idle/silence => 0.96A. Total draw for the hour: 2.38AHr. 5.8 hours with a 14AHr battery. But, if you are rag-chewing, with say 20 minutes transmit, 20 minutes receive, and 20 minutes of idle per hour... 5.3AHr average, battery life 2.6 hours (probably less due to higher average draw -- Amp-Hour is based on a 20-hour draw down, and for that 14Ahr battery that means only 0.7A draw).

<snicker> The only thing I'd find difficult to remember is the 3 digits of the OP's call... Since I still associate WRTH with "World Radio & TV Handbook" (a collection of broadcasters and frequencies, popular back in the days when there was still significant international shortwave activity -- and reciprocity agreements by some broadcasters: BBC using VOA's California transmitters to cover the US during the times of day that propagation wasn't suited for VOA to hit distant lands). OTOH: Whisky Romeo Tango Hotel sounds like a four word summary of a bad pickup... a few drinks, some "Romeo", a dance, and end up in a cheap hotel room... I've used a Dymo LetraTag to create labels that I've placed on the battery packs of the HTs, and on the top of the MXT115 (and on its microphone). Not so much for my memory -- I've had Kilo Alpha Fox 6045 for long enough to remember it, the labels are for the rare family member using a loaner rig (on a good day I even remember my 70s CB call. KRO3607 I believe it was). My Amateur gear is mostly configured to display that call sign on power-up.

Also note that /true (original)/ FRS radios are narrow-band FM (12.5kHz channels) while normal GMRS are legacy wide-band FM (authorized 20kHz channels -- but radios may have an option for NFM, or worse the radio may not even support 20kHz and be using 25kHz). The 2017 unification/split of GMRS and FRS has complicated matters some. As a result, if you do get through to each other (and I concur with the prior poster -- start with NO TONES, and on lowest power, with decent separation between radios), you'll notice some -- uhm -- strangeness in vocal qualities as GMRS gets clipped to the NFM bandwidth, and FRS deviation doesn't take advantage of regular bandwidth.

Hoping yours will be near advertised spec. My "2W/0.5W" V1 actually puts out more power than my "5W/0.5W" V2! Something like 1.8W vs 1.7W high, 0.8W vs 0.6W low (both exceed the FCC limit for the low-power-only interstitials, which should be less than 0.5W). I bought the high-cap battery on the basis that 5W would drain a battery faster, but given my tests -- I might as well use it on the V1 ? I'm hoping the 771G antenna I put on the V1 has enough gain to make up for the difference in power (the 701C dual-band antenna reported such bad SWR [one meter maxed out] on 462MHz that I relegated it to the MURS-V1).

Recommend you access the FCC rules: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-95/subpart-E (use the print/pdf button to get a local copy). Relevant sections (emphasis is mine) Note that, while "immediate family members" may operate using your license, YOU are still responsible for HOW they behave when doing so. Decades ago, there was a further restriction... It was "family members who resided in the same household as the licensee"; the current rules, taken literally, means I could allow my nieces in Kalamazoo and Allegan to operate under my license, even though I'm living 15 miles east of Grand Rapids and would have no way of monitoring them. Back then, the intent WAS for use within families (or businesses -- what are now referred to as grandfathered non-individual licenses) such as a large farm, with very rare licensee to licensee cross-over (base stations were not allowed to contact other base stations!). 95.1705 (b) (1) seems rather silly... Are there any radio services where the holder of a station license is NOT permitted to operate their station? (Granted, there are services which separate station and operator licenses -- I think primarily broadcast services; the person ensuring that the station transmitter is within spec, and making power/antenna changes [AM radio has stations that have to change power or antenna directivity at sunset/sunrise] is licensed separately).

If you look, you will also find the narrowband (FRS interstitials) often show up as 11Kxxx for a 12.5K channel. Also note that the original GMRS primary channels were on 25K spacing, even if only allowed 20K bandwidth. The interstitials complicate matters, as they fall midway between each primary (so have a 25K spacing, but are only 12.5K from the center of each primary). Use of 16Kxxx is probably a compromise to avoid too much bleed over into adjacent channels.

Unless Win11 made really massive changes, have you tried running in "compatibility mode". That supposedly allowed one to specify a prior OS version for problematic programs. I'm on Win10, but it should be a similar screen. The "Compatibility mode" check box should activate the drop-down to select OS capability needed. If the program also has to run as admin, checking that box (and change settings for all users) may take one layer of hassle out of using it.