WRUQ758

The great thing about GMRS is that we can use wide channel spacing (25 KHz) and there are tons of old wideband radios that are unusable on business/public safety to be had really cheap. Compare the audio of a wideband Maxtrac, Maratrac or GE MLS to a Motorola DMR XPR radio - no comparison. DMR audio is barely intelligible. DMR / P25 is horrible in comparison to wideband analog fidelity. Enjoy what we have and be glad we are not being forced into the expensive digital radios like part 90 services. Just work together on repeater coordination issues and don't over complicate things. I know it's rough in S Cal and NY/NJ BUT the MAJORITY of America is not congested cities and in most rural areas GMRS gets little use. "Narrowbanding" (12.5) was a solution to a non existent problem - that's what "T" band and 700/800/900 MHz was allocated for in metro areas. When Motorola wanted multi-million dollar P-25 systems for every rural county and lobbied the FCC is when things went down the drain.

I stand corrected Marc Spaz. Found this post (below) elsewhere. Eloquently explains how this relates to GMRS and I agree with this poster. Narrowband, P-25, DMR your private repeater. It will just lock out 99% of us who use Analog 25 KHz spacing. I would revel in the fact I can use the older radios with better audio. Anyone who thinks the Motorola XPR audio compares to a Maxtrac or Marartac - well.... Just my 2c ALL Credit to "RFI-EMI-Guy" "The nomenclature of 12.5 and 25 KHz channels has been somewhat confused to indicate operating bandwidth. The actual modulation bandwidth of an analog narrowband radio is about 11.25 KHz and a wideband radio about 16 KHz. The deviation is +/- 2.5 KHz for narrowband and +/- 5.0 KHz for wideband. The additional "channel" bandwidth accommodates the deviation, the voice modulation frequency (Carsons Rule), filter and frequency offset tolerances. 1) GMRS is under no mandate to narrow band and there is no great benefit to narrow band GMRS as the FRS channels were already allocated on the 12.5 KHz offsets. Because of the power differential the determination was that GMRS bandwidth would be unaffected. 2) No additional channels can be attained by narrow-banding GMRS. 3) There will be a 3 dB degradation going from analog "wide band" (25 KHz channel spacing) to narrow band 12.5 KHz. See the link below where, a table and maps will explain the interaction of reducing the modulation and using a narrower filter in the receiver. There is some receiver sensitivity improvement, however, lowering the deviation reduces the modulation energy. 4) If you operate narrow band radios and wish to roam to wide band channels and repeaters, your audio will be low and everyone else will be booming. The reverse is true if you operate a narrowband repeater, wideband roamers will be booming and your repeater audio will be weak to them".

Channel spacing for the GMRS repeater & simplex channels is 25 Khz and 12.5 for FRS channels. I hear a lot of users with low audio and in many cases this may be from someone using a narrowband radio on an GMRS appropriate wideband repeater. I am a radio tech but will not get into a technical rant about the differences. Basically 25 Khz spacing gives you WAY better audio and range due to the bandwith. Radios like the Midland MXT-400 come with the correct spacing out of the box. In a nutshell if you buy commercial Kenwood, Motorola Etc repeaters, mobiles and portables make sure they are older "wideband" capable radios for GMRS use. Whoever programs your radios can tell in the software. This is great news for GMRS users because there is a glut of cheap wideband capable UHF radios out there cheap that cannot be used on narrowband spacing on regular business band. If the commercial radio or repeater you buy is 12.5 narrowband capable make SURE whoever programs it has the permission "key" to set it to 25 Khz. Do not use 12.5 KHz spacing on GMRS, enjoy the better audio and range benefits of our wideband "exception" under FCC Part 95. My personal FAVORITES are Motorola Maxtrac, Radius M100, GM300, Ht-600, P-200, & Saber. These were some of the best radios ever built but require special software and an obsolete DOS computer and RIB to program. Here is a list: Motorola Narrowband Capable Radios (comsourcewireless.com)

I have seen a few on Ebay that include controller & duplexer, usually Motorola mobiles converted. Just do your research on MyGMRS repeaters in your area and pick a repeater frequency pair that is least likely to cause interference with another.

I'm not sure where you got that from? Why would I move to a different frequency if my local repeater is on it? We have 8 GMRS repeater channels that stores operate on the repeater output frequencies instead of using the many simplex GMRS/FRS channels. If I'm on a repeater channel (only ones I use) I am transmitting on the repeater input and I'm not overpowering anyone. I'm listening on the output and the local repeater overpowers or drowns out those low powered unlicensed radios that's not me, it's the repeater. I don't own the repeater near me. All I am saying to serious GMRS users is put your tone decode on your receive and only the repeater tone will be passed. If a store or business wants to have radios there are plenty of licensed business channels to use. They can also use the FRS channels. If they use ANY GMRS channels at GMRS power levels they have to get a license for each employee. As far as "grandfathered" GMRS business licensees I did an advanced FCC ULS search for 462.600 and there was only one in the entire country and four on 462.575. I doubt there are many businesses left that are actually legal on GMRS.

I simply run decode tone on my repeater output frequency and never hear the low power unlicensed radio chatter. The repeater overpowers the portables at the local store / business. It's annoying if you listen to it but just block it with tone.

In the early 1980's business band channels were very crowded in the NY metro area. if you had PL (tone) enabled taking the mic off the hook disabled it so you had to monitor the channel for use before transmitting. Granted keying up a repeater is a longer duration transmission than a simplex transmission so "monitoring" isn't practical. Point is people just dealt with crowded bands. With current non-coordinated repeater rules and limited channels, we have to make do the best we can with what we've got, and work with other repeater users as much as possible.

My station at home is "portable", Midland MXT-400 with a mag mount 1/4 wave on AC wall unit. Not attached to a fixed antenna and easily moved.

I am new to GMRS and I am pleasantly surprised at the great community, professionalism and courtesy shown on the national net and repeaters in general. I have been a ham since the 1980's and have watched repeaters go silent and that even includes DMR. While the GMRS community is smaller there is more activity on my local GMRS repeater than all the areas 2 meter repeaters combined. GMRS operators in general are very helpful and I see great potential with radio operators that are easily licensed and willing to put their skills to use for the good of the community. I am pleasantly surprised that the "CB slang" from the 70's is absent and everyone talks in plain English. My only gripe with the service is all the unlicensed business operation on repeater outputs courtesy of the "bubble pack" radios sold everywhere. Thankfully the repeater overpowers most of them and tone silences the constant stock room chatter. Let's keep this great service alive and active so it doesn't turn into another 2 meters. I would like to see more wide area linking or repeaters.