Kids interfere w/PS radio NJ

[JohnE]

got this in an e-mail today worth a look for those in PS. have a good look at the radios in the clip.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Kids-on-2-Way-Radios-Interfere-With-Emergency-Calls-228090311.html

 

[PastorGary]

I can just about guaranty that the 'kids' knew exactly what they were doing... they aren't dumb - and got off easy.   Once again, it comes down to parental responsibility, lifestyle committments and lack of CARING as to what their children do. Some parents can't be bothered to BE parents and they just buy the kids some things to occupy their time so "mom and dad" don't have to spend time being proper role models for their children. Too many times the parents are irresponsible and are out living it up or too busy with their own individual lives for anything else... including proper parenting.  Unfortunately, the destruction of the traditional family and family values from within, is all too common these days.

[Logan5]

Very Interesting, these radios are too easy to get and do not come pre-programmed.  even if they did they don't come with any info about what frequency's may be used and what license's are required for what frequency's. I read the comments and noticed HAM users calling out the fact the BF radios are not even type accepted for HAM or GMRS use. Not sure what this has to do with traditional family's and family value's, any parent traditional or non traditional, should know how to curb their children, and help keep them out of trouble.

[JohnE]

I have some kids on my 650 who figured out my output tone. they have not made any serious problems for me as of yet. one of the reasons its split.

[Guest spd641]

Very Interesting, these radios are too easy to get and do not come pre-programmed.  even if they did they don't come with any info about what frequency's may be used and what license's are required for what frequency's. I read the comments and noticed HAM users calling out the fact the BF radios are not even type accepted for HAM or GMRS use. Not sure what this has to do with traditional family's and family value's, any parent traditional or non traditional, should know how to curb their children, and help keep them out of trouble.

Logan,

Ham radios do not have to be Part 97 type accepted.I know several hams will argue this point but they do not,as far as part 95 yes they need the part 95 certification but no one listens to it either of does not understand anything about radio etiquette or they could care less whichever the case may be,it is more a personal preference than anything....william

[Guest spd641]

I can just about guaranty that the 'kids' knew exactly what they were doing... they aren't dumb - and got off easy.   Once again, it comes down to parental responsibility, lifestyle commitments and lack of CARING as to what their children do. Some parents can't be bothered to BE parents and they just buy the kids some things to occupy their time so "mom and dad" don't have to spend time being proper role models for their children. Too many times the parents are irresponsible and are out living it up or too busy with their own individual lives for anything else... including proper parenting.  Unfortunately, the destruction of the traditional family and family values from within, is all too common these days.

Sad but true and I have to agree,no moral or standards are practiced by several traditional families now days.Dad and Mom are living a fast paced life and find children to be a more inconvenience or a nuisance and try to occupy their time with all the latest gadgets instead of be a parent.I believe most of these children would be better off if they were taken and placed in a home with a real Mom/Dad who would care for them and show them some good morals/standards along with some good old fashioned traditional family values and raise them to be reasonable adults with the instilled values we were raised with instead of the" times are changing modern day philosophy" which are taught to our children now days.

 

I believe it is the parent's place to teach our children morals/respect and do not condone others pushing their beliefs upon our children  without the parent's permission,all it does is cause confusion when you try to guide a child in the right direction and others trying to teach them the "modern way" of accepting things which some of us as parents consider morally wrong or against our views,in doing so it leaves the children dazed and confused,not really knowing which way to turn.I believe if we went back to the way thing used to be the whole world would be a better place,let the Mom/Dad be the teachers and not let the ways of the world be their guide...William

[PastorGary]

Getting back to John's original info - If anyone else has heard of cases like this locally, please advise.

 

I have heard that SOME ICOM radios can be manipulated by putting a factory supplied 'plug' in a different location, or holding down two panel buttons as the radio is turned on, which enables over 450  IG and PS simplex frequencies, but some ICOM's can also be front panel programmed by savvy bootleggers to operate on repeater offsets and tone/digital codes.   Can anyone confirm this - I just heard about it from a communications tech a month ago.

 

Thanks.

[JohnE]

Getting back to John's original info - If anyone else has heard of cases like this locally, please advise.

 

I have heard that SOME ICOM radios can be manipulated by putting a factory supplied 'plug' in a different location, or holding down two panel buttons as the radio is turned on, which enables over 450  IG and PS simplex frequencies, but some ICOM's can also be front panel programmed by savvy bootleggers to operate on repeater offsets and tone/digital codes.   Can anyone confirm this - I just heard about it from a communications tech a month ago.

 

Thanks.

your right, PG. there are a few radios that can be "tricked" into going where there not suppose to.

[captdan]

Lets not be too quick to condemn the parents in this case. I am hearing from some people in Lakewood - where this happened - that the parents are good people and the kids are good kids - but are just kids.  The frequencies for that volunteer ambulance squad were already programed into the radios when the parents bought the set of walkie- talkies for their 12 year old son at a local flea market.That's the reason there were no charges filed.  In my humble opinion the kids knew they were messing around with someone - just didn't know how serious it could be.  How many kids in the 50's and 60's called people on the telephone and asked if their refrigerator was running and when the person said yes told them they better go catch it before it gets away ? Sometimes kids are just kids - does not make them bad people or criminals.

 

That having been said - and as I said in a different post - I've spent 36 years with a city police department - several as the direct commander of the communications section and several more as the commander of the parent Bureau for the communications section. We had only 2 instances where unauthorized persons came onto our frequencies - both were to request emergency aid - and no enforcement action was taken against those 2 people. Bothe instances were before cell phones.

 

Times are changing - I have learned recently that illegal transmissions on government frequencies has become such a problem that  NYC PD now has personnel trained and equipped to track and identify the source of unauthorized transmissions on duty 24/7  365.  Apparently there have been some issues or concerns about this but they do not publicize it for fear of attracting attention and thereby encouraging additional people to try it just for fun.    

[PastorGary]

Dan - going off topic for a moment---

 

No Federal agency/frequency data has been available officially since the late 1970's... however, there is data out there concerning where the Federal systems are and the type of emissions.  That being said, do you happen to know if the Interdepartmental Radio Advisory Committee (IRAC) is STILL doing the Federal radio system licensing and coordination?  IF IRAC is still the coordinating agency, do they assign "call signs" and further, if they DO issue call signs, do these fall within the international treaty protocols for first call sign prefix of K, W or N ?

 

Thanks...

[Guest spd641]

I do not think these type radios should be sold at a flea market to begin and that is where the problem begins.To many people think they are able to buy and use what ever kind of radio they see on the market without knowledge of FCC rules and regulations.I wished each radio had a non-removable plate attached to them as to the requirements of radio operation.

 

I have read so many forums where the Boafeng radios are used for unintended purposes and honestly they are to readily available for any one to buy,with that being said we can now see why we are losing radio spectrum and everyone is going digital to get away from all the illegal operations.IMO all radios sold should only be sold to licensed individuals which has to show their license upon purchase.

 

You know as well as I do it will never happen,these companies are out to make money and care less about what the radios are used for.I just hope it doesn't come to the point we all loose our radio privileges due to incidents like the one that happened in your area.

 

Dan,even with buying radios to let their children use there is still the responsibility of the parents to get information just what they are buying for their children,even if it is FRS those radios are still licensed by rule and as long as you follow the rules then you are considered licensed to use them.I know where you are coming from with this and I am sure it wasn't a intentional thing and the parents have no clue about radio communications.

 

I think this should be well publicized where people could educate themselves in case this kind of scenario repeats itself again.I know it is hard to educate everyone but it doesn't hurt to try and who knows it may actually have a positive effect on communications in the future  if more details were to be available to the general public...William

[captdan]

Dan - going off topic for a moment---

 

No Federal agency/frequency data has been available officially since the late 1970's... however, there is data out there concerning where the Federal systems are and the type of emissions.  That being said, do you happen to know if the Interdepartmental Radio Advisory Committee (IRAC) is STILL doing the Federal radio system licensing and coordination?  IF IRAC is still the coordinating agency, do they assign "call signs" and further, if they DO issue call signs, do these fall within the international treaty protocols for first call sign prefix of K, W or N ?

 

Thanks...

PG,

 

Sorry, I do not know the answer to your questions.  We had a guy on staff that took care of all of our licensing requirements.

 

I do know - well in NJ area at least - the Federal systems have become integrated so one agency can talk to another agency. When I started a looong time ago the FBI could not talk to the BNDD now DEA or ATF or the Secret Service. NOW they can all talk to each other as if they worked for the same outfit.  

[captdan]

I do not think these type radios should be sold at a flea market to begin and that is where the problem begins.To many people think they are able to buy and use what ever kind of radio they see on the market without knowledge of FCC rules and regulations.I wished each radio had a non-removable plate attached to them as to the requirements of radio operation.

 

I have read so many forums where the Boafeng radios are used for unintended purposes and honestly they are to readily available for any one to buy,with that being said we can now see why we are losing radio spectrum and everyone is going digital to get away from all the illegal operations.IMO all radios sold should only be sold to licensed individuals which has to show their license upon purchase.

 

You know as well as I do it will never happen,these companies are out to make money and care less about what the radios are used for.I just hope it doesn't come to the point we all loose our radio privileges due to incidents like the one that happened in your area.

 

Dan,even with buying radios to let their children use there is still the responsibility of the parents to get information just what they are buying for their children,even if it is FRS those radios are still licensed by rule and as long as you follow the rules then you are considered licensed to use them.I know where you are coming from with this and I am sure it wasn't a intentional thing and the parents have no clue about radio communications.

 

I think this should be well publicized where people could educate themselves in case this kind of scenario repeats itself again.I know it is hard to educate everyone but it doesn't hurt to try and who knows it may actually have a positive effect on communications in the future  if more details were to be available to the general public...William

I agree, for the companies it's all about the money.

 

I do wish that all transmitters were required to transmit a unique identifier so radios could be tracked and identified if they were causing a problem. 

 

The problem - some people are concerned about with regards to publicizing incidents like this is it might give some people ideas that might otherwise not realize how easy it might be to hinder emergency communications. A few years back every agency I dealt with was in the planning stages to go digital - the economy took a dump and so did public safety communications budgets. Many are still patching up their analog systems and are completely venerable someone with a couple of    $ 250.00  Chinese radios making their entire communications systems useless. So they quietly deal with the individual issues as they arise.

 

In the Lakewood incident - I do not believe it was the Police that made any public comment - I believe it was the man from a volunteer ambulance squad that went o the press about it.

[Guest spd641]

A volunteer ambulance service should not have been relying on those radios for critical communications to begin with nor should they have been allowed to be placed in the hands of someone at a flea market for resale

 

.I think at the most all of them should have been erased before selling them to anyone .I do not believe the man from the ambulance service should have made any statements on the news about the incident either.

 

By making comments to the news he just helped put the  idea in other people's heads whom may not have thought of doing anything like this but now you will have to worry about copy cats trying their luck...William

[Logan5]

I always wondered what the frequency's pre-programmed into these radios are for, I always over write with my own, those of us that are also HAM licensed know, we would never want to transmit outside of our accepted band. given they were purchased at a flea market, I wonder if it was a Jobber that re-sale new or used goods, and if they had a stock of these BF radios. My luck, I never run across a stand with much interesting radio stuff. although I have to admit last time I saw more CB radios than in my whole life. I just wait till the annual HAM Free Flea. 

[JohnE]

if you go back and look at the clip, the Volly 's were using HT1250's just like mine.  as for the freq they were on most of them at least around here have very few options or get a freq in the IG pool. I can name 4 volly 's a school bus company and a "transport" outfit on the same freq just in my listening area.

[Guest spd641]

I did not see the video clip but to sell a HT1250 and someone give them to their kids,what were they thinking.if they knew the least bit about radios they should have known these were not toys.The pics I saw were of a Baofeng on the website.I guess it was a stock picture they found online and went with it.

[captdan]

The one video clip shows the Motorola radio in the hands of the ambulance person who happens to also be a Lakewood council person. That is apparently the ambulance squad radio.  The video clip specifically shows and says that the Baofeng radios were the ones used and were confiscated by the police and later returned to the parents. The reporter says that the father of one of the kids involved is showing him the radios that were used. The video report says that the kids were interfering with communications by the Lakewood Civilian Safety Watch.

 

According to the RadioReference.com  frequency data base the Lakewood Civilian Safety Watch is licensed on 462.7500 WQMR502.

 

My silly guess, and that is all it is a guess at this point, is that they might have been sold at a flea market by an individual - maybe someone who had no idea what they were or anything about them.  There are a ton of flea markets in that area - many people just sell their old unwanted stuff - the area is also known for all of it's age restricted developments - perhaps a parent or other relative passed on and someone was just selling the stuff from Uncle Joe's house. In today's economy an extra 20 bucks is very important to some people.

 

Unless there is other information forthcoming - I would be comfortable thinking it was just a couple of kids being kids !

 

My cup is 1/2 full !

[Billy]

"Times are changing - I have learned recently that illegal transmissions on government frequencies has become such a problem that NYC PD now has personnel trained and equipped to track and identify the source of unauthorized transmissions on duty 24/7 365. Apparently there have been some issues or concerns about this but they do not publicize it for fear of attracting attention and thereby encouraging additional people to try it just for fun."

 

One of the reasons that radios are now individiually assigned.  There was a time when cops were getting hurt over the loss of a radio.

There is no way to hide it now if it dissapears, you cannot go in the radio room and just grab another. 
 

[captdan]

Billy,

 

YES, that is one of the reasons hand held radios are individually assigned by many agencies, but the primary reason is durability and care of the radio.  We used to be lucky to get 5 years out of a hand held unit when they were pool radios and assigned at the start of each shift. In 1989 we distributed over 500 brand new hand held units to patrol - each officer had his/her own radio. We also issued a spare battery and an individual charger and all the other accessories. Those radios are just now in 2013 being replaced with new ones. Almost 24 years later.  Yes - of course a few had to be replaced here and there but the majority of the radio's are 20 something years old.

 

The issue of illegal transmissions - at least in my experience - is not from lost government radios - but from inexpensive radios such as the Wouxun or Baofeng radios winding up in the wrong hands.  We have been able to disable a misplaced agency radio since 1990's.  It's the radio's that we ( ok used to we - now it's them ) do not have control over - have proper identification for - and therefore can't send a kill message to - that have the greatest potential to cripple a radio system.  

 

Not going to make this an instruction manual on how to cripple a communications systems - but it does not take much - no mater how secure the system is.

 

cheers

 

Dan

[quarterwave]

Yep...these cheap and easy radios are cool toys, until someone interferes with a frequency they have no business on. The invisible barrier is no longer a barrier. Back in the day, you had to work hard to get a radio you could somehow program (or it took crystals!) to get a specific frequency into...and that usually meant getting a radio tech to do it after the shop closed. Fewer people have appreciation for the "sacred" rules of radio. You don't put the local cops frequency in your radio, unless you are a cop. Kids know computers, like many of us knew radios at that age, these radios are just a software addressable devices. Kids will play.   

[Guest spd641]

Yep...these cheap and easy radios are cool toys, until someone interferes with a frequency they have no business on. The invisible barrier is no longer a barrier. Back in the day, you had to work hard to get a radio you could somehow program (or it took crystals!) to get a specific frequency into...and that usually meant getting a radio tech to do it after the shop closed. Fewer people have appreciation for the "sacred" rules of radio. You don't put the local cops frequency in your radio, unless you are a cop. Kids know computers, like many of us knew radios at that age, these radios are just a software addressable devices. Kids will play.   

Quaterwave,

 

You pretty well summed it up...William

[JohnE]

I can't even begin to tell you guys about what I see almost regularly inthat respect.

[Shriekmau]

I can't say I don't have local police bands programmed into my radios. The difference here is my radios have transmit locked out when on these channels. Not that I would transmit intentionally, but I want to prevent accidental key ups.

[PastorGary]

Amateur radio operators and to an extent, GMRS radio operators, have assisted in disaster communications for many years.  I have maintained an IG class license specifically for first responder activities.   In my many years of commercial operations, I have yet to find a situation where it was absolutely necessary to DIRECTLY communicate with anyone outside of my own license parameters.  If communications are needed to suppliment Public Safety comm in a disaster, I get permission to place one of my trained volunteer team members in the local Comm Center with a portable and charger and RELAY info through our volunteer to their dispatcher. This is the ONLY way that we operate in a disaster scenario so as not to disrupt normal Public Safety communications with any type of  "who is that on my radio system?" issue.

 

There may be instances in regional situations that might require direct comm, but that would be a last resort in most scenarios.