DMR

[timpate316]

Any other Amateur's on here enjoying DMR if so what talk group do you use most? Just wondering? I enjoy TG 3100 TG 310 TG 91 TG 3106

[John10e]

Just started to set up my Radioddity GD-77 this weekend.  I've only added a local repeater and did add TG310 but have yet to hear anything.  Very new to DRM so still figuring out keying up to active a group??ect...ect... and just plain how to use the software for my radio.  I have gotten a contact so I'm doing something right...lol  

 

I'm cutting out on the repeater too so I need to get an antenna on the roof for this HT.

[piglet]

I just passed my Technician test this past Saturday (100% !!) I am looking into a CS800D because I would like to explore DMR, and I see good reports on that radio. There are a handful of DMR repeaters in my general vicinity, and I just heard about D-RATS last night.

 

If you have already gotten your feet wet, could you talk a little bit about your equipment?

[WRAK968]

I've been dabbling in DMR, however haven't been on much. I believe I use 3134 (NJ statewide) 95 (US 95) 310 311 312 and 315 (tac channels to move off the statewide system) 31660 (county wide) and 98002 which relates to my PFP

[Lscott]

I’ve got a couple of DMR radios. I haven’t really did much with them to date. The D878UV has another firmware release out and been too lazy to do the update. The other radio is a TK-D340, a 32 channel (2 zones of 16 channels each) commercial radio.

 

The small amount of monitoring I’ve done I ran into a VERY ANNOYING problem where people don’t get their audio levels adjusted right. One station comes in at a low level, crank up the volume to hear them, then the next station’s audio blows me out of the chair. That gets old after a few minutes.

[Lscott]

I’ve got a couple of DMR radios. I haven’t really did much with them to date. The D878UV has another firmware release out and been too lazy to do the update. The other radio is a TK-D340, a 32 channel (2 zones of 16 channels each) commercial radio.

 

The small amount of monitoring I’ve done I ran into a VERY ANNOYING problem where people don’t get their audio levels adjusted right. One station comes in at a low level, crank up the volume to hear them, then the next station’s audio blows me out of the chair. That gets old after a few minutes.

[gman1971]

This is where RX Audio leveling in Motorola XPR gen2 radios solves this problem once and for all.

 

 

I’ve got a couple of DMR radios. I haven’t really did much with them to date. The D878UV has another firmware release out and been too lazy to do the update. The other radio is a TK-D340, a 32 channel (2 zones of 16 channels each) commercial radio. The small amount of monitoring I’ve done I ran into a VERY ANNOYING problem where people don’t get their audio levels adjusted right. One station comes in at a low level, crank up the volume to hear them, then the next station’s audio blows me out of the chair. That gets old after a few minutes.

[tweiss3]

I have CS800D's in both cars, but I don't use DMR that much. Mostly I connect to the local multi-mode reflector (combines YSF, DMR & DStar), as well as the Ohio TGs (3139, 31391, 31390) and occasionally I will grab 3100 if its super late and I just need someone to talk to on the radio (like a month ago when I had to run to the pharmacy at 2AM to pick up a perscription).

[SUPERG900]

I've been really active on DMR lately with a lot of irons in the fire going. I have an AT-878 HT, and a AT-578 being used as a base station. Albuquerque is a very active DMR town, and we have both the BrandMeister network available, as well as private and semi-private regional DMR (RMHAM, MPRG) clusters as well. I'm able to hit multiple DMR repeaters on Sandia Crest using the base station, but the rolling foot hills here at my QTH make the HT untenable, unless I'm on the top of one.

 

But hey, I can use the HT (and the base too if desired..)  with a pi-star hotspot. Even better, since I've set up DMR2YSF cross-mode, I can ragchew with my buddy in Tucson on a YSF reflector. (Tucson is a Yaesu town for sure, and Albuquerque NM has no Yaesu repeaters...)

 

I've wrestled out how to set-up a pi-star from scratch with a blank micro-sd.... pop a msg to me if you need some help.

 

Also, just got myself a new duplex pi-star - which alleviates the problem my other, simplex pi-star has switching talkgroups when someone is already talking. Very-cool - BrandMeister sees the new duplex pi-star as a repeater and, for all intents and purposes it is, but it's just running at 10mw, with about 1/4 mile range. Very cool - two time slots.

[jc1240]

Any other Amateur's on here enjoying DMR if so what talk group do you use most? Just wondering? I enjoy TG 3100 TG 310 TG 91 TG 3106

 

I just got my DMR radio a week ago.  I'm not a fan of the learning curve for DMR, but I must confess I was thrilled when I got my first Parrot reply.  Not much activity that I can hear on the TGs I picked for my area.  This includes the state and region TGs, but could just be not being able to get a signal

 

Next up:  Learning the purpose of the TAC 310-319 TGs and why 310 is labeled the way it is...and is that why 3100 was created....etc.

Also toying with APRS and have analog set up, but don't either don't have digital right or my repeaters don't accept it.  Not a big deal as this is more of something just to learn.  There are enough things that track our every movement whether or not we like it.  I don't need to willingly add another.   

 

I just passed my Technician test this past Saturday (100% !!) I am looking into a CS800D because I would like to explore DMR, and I see good reports on that radio. There are a handful of DMR repeaters in my general vicinity, and I just heard about D-RATS last night.

 

If you have already gotten your feet wet, could you talk a little bit about your equipment?

 

 

Since you just got your ticket, be forewarned - setting up a DMR radio, even with just analog frequencies/repeaters is very different and more involved than how it's done on an analog radio.  It has quite a learning curve.  Some Elmers suggest not getting a DMR radio as a first.  I personally am glad I started with an inexpensive analog.  I have had an Anytone AT-D878UV for a week and some aspects of it have me mentally shouting "WHY was DMR designed this way!?  DMR was designed for commerical/enterprise use and adopted for amateur radio, but being "commercial" doesn't answer the "why" for me. 

 

Anytone's quirky software adds to some of the "WHY" in my mind.  I love CHIRP which I use for my Baofeng, but most if not all DMR radios require the software from their manufacturers.  I hear RT Systems code plug software is excellent, but they don't support the 878.  

 

It's pretty cool once you get it, though.  One bit of advice which sounds like you may have already done to some degree - check what is most common in your area.  In mine most digital repeaters are System Fusion which leaves me out in the cold with my DMR radio, but I can hit a DMR repeater from my QTH.  But the price/feature combo for the Anytone is what sold me.  I have the Plus model which comes with Bluetooth that works with car systems and good ol' earpieces.  It also has a Bluetooth PTT button with velcro that can be strapped to a steering wheel for driving or a backpack strap for hiking.  

 

Based on the timing you hearing about D-RATS I take it you are a fellow HRCC fan?

[SUPERG900]

You know - if you can pass the Tech license, you have the smarts to figure out DMR. I think DMR gets a bad rap because some folks are just old stuck-in-the-muds. DMR does have it's differences from analog - but of course it does - as it's a way more capable radio.

 

Conceptually - our DMR radios are very much like any locked-down commercial radio - they need to be preprogrammed. But - they don't just *have* to be that way. Chinese radios like the Anytone actually *cater* to hams with ham-friendly features - you can easily punch in a brand new channel and/or talk group from the keypad menus - on a VFO even, in a few seconds.

 

Loading things like rx/tx frequencies and talk groups into channels become second nature - using talk groups is even easier than linking to a reflector. Normally, we store all of the required information in a channel for quick access, but creating a channel on the fly from the keypad is straightforward.

[jc1240]

I have DMR working, but some of it just doesn't make sense to me.  For example, for scanning analog, why do channels need to go into a scan list when the channel config itself also has to be set to that scan list?  One or the other should suffice.  I'm sure given its corporate design there is a reason for some of these peculiarities, but I'm missing it.

 

Next thing to try for fun is sending SMS, but everything I have seen on the subject requires a Brandmeister repeater and there are none around me.  The one I can hit is on a regional network.  

 

I'm trying to balance "exploration and learning" with "hey, dummy, what are you doing to my repeater" with trying things.  A hotspot is probably next on my list of things to get.  This is starting to get as expensive as scuba.   My wallet will really hate me when I get my General ticket. 

[SUPERG900]

I have DMR working, but some of it just doesn't make sense to me.  For example, for scanning analog, why do channels need to go into a scan list when the channel config itself also has to be set to that scan list?  One or the other should suffice.  I'm sure given its corporate design there is a reason for some of these peculiarities, but I'm missing it.

 

Next thing to try for fun is sending SMS, but everything I have seen on the subject requires a Brandmeister repeater and there are none around me.  The one I can hit is on a regional network.  

 

I'm trying to balance "exploration and learning" with "hey, dummy, what are you doing to my repeater" with trying things.  A hotspot is probably next on my list of things to get.  This is starting to get as expensive as scuba.   My wallet will really hate me when I get my General ticket. 

 

I think know where you're getting it wrong - and this has to do with all the "lists" of data in a DMR configuration.

 

A scan list is just that: a list of channels to scan through - and those channels can be mixture of analog and digital. You can make up as many custom scan lists as you want - you select a scan list, turn on scanning, and your your off and running. The anytone lets you assign a channel to a scan list in the create channel dialog, but the better place to do it is in the scan list dialog.

 

Channel scanning is an optional radio feature though - not part of the DMR standard.

 

 

What a scan list is often confused with though is a "Receive group list" - which a digital channel may optionally use. This is just a list of talk groups ID's or private ID's that you'd like that particular digital channel to "open squelch" and listen to, in addition to the primary talk group or contact ID the channel is set to. You don't have to set a receive group if you don't want to.

 

An ID is an ID is an ID.....

 

After a time - it dawns on one that, conceptually, contact ID's, radio ID's, and Talk Group ID's - they're all just treated by the radio as nothing more than digital squelch codes - like PL tones (but of course no actual tones used) This is why these DMR radios can be set to listen to just about anything, and make it easy to implement direct-to-handset calls even across a repeater system.

 

All one needs to do is turn on "Digi Mon", otherwise known as "promiscuous mode" on a DMR radio - all of a sudden you can hear everything no matter what, and the reason why is that the radio is simply ignoring whatever (contact/talkgroup/private) ID is assigned to the transmission - and therefore simply plays that transmission out loud. The receiver really doesn't distinguish what type of ID (private contact, talkgroup) in operation, it's just an ID. Classifying those id's into private contacts and or talk groups is a human convention, the radio itself just doesn't care.

[jc1240]

Thanks for the info.  I appreciate it.  My stuff about the scan lists was more about the radio itself not that it was DMR explicitly.  I guess what I mean is using CHIRP for my Baofeng is....different and I might say easier than the CPS for the Anytone and that's simply because the Anytone does so much more.

 

I just got off the phone with a fellow who runs the local DMR repeater I can hit (owns 14 others sprinkled around Maryland and Pennsylvania) and now I understand why the videos and write-ups had me so confused with my results.  They are pretty much all using and are about Brandmeister and this network uses Motorola's c-Bridge.  Things are just done differently.  This guy was fantastic and very friendly.  He not only alleviated my fears of doing something "wrong" on the repeater, he encouraged me to play and if something comes up where I need help or I think it would be good opportunity for instruction or clarity for his site for the repeaters, to let him know.  

 

One major thing he pointed out is the info about this network of repeaters is simply wrong on repeaterbook.com, but he gave up trying to get it fixed and fixed again if something changed.  That in itself was part of my problem - bad info.

 

So...maybe I should reevaluate my "don't get DMR radio as a very first radio" thought.  The more I learn, the more it does make sense.  One thing I do know - I love this radio.  It's so much better with reception as well which makes it that much more enjoyable.

 

Thanks again SuperG.  

[piglet]

Based on the timing you hearing about D-RATS I take it you are a fellow HRCC fan?

 

I do get on the HRCC yahoo channel pretty regularly. As for being a fan, I have difficulty with the live streaming format. There is too much chaff to wade through to get to the wheat. I have learned a lot in spite of that, however.

[Lscott]

I have DMR working, but some of it just doesn't make sense to me.  For example, for scanning analog, why do channels need to go into a scan list when the channel config itself also has to be set to that scan list?  One or the other should suffice.  I'm sure given its corporate design there is a reason for some of these peculiarities, but I'm missing it.

I've pulled my hair out fighting with the radio programming software for the Anytone D878UV DMR radio. The worse part of the radio is the user programming software, it sucks. There are features that plainly don't work as expected. Some they fix in the next revision, then the revision after that it's buggered up again. I've grown tired of sending off bug reports to their tech support guy in China. There has been two updates since the last one I did on the radio and I have little motivation to screw around with to see what is mucked up this time with the current update.

 

The scan lists is one of those that bugs me since I do a lot of scanning with my radios. It just so happens than when you start a scan the currently selected memory channel is included in the scan even if it is NOT in the scan list. I was told by Anytone support this is NOT a bug. They claim people want to revert back to the channel when a scan is stopped, OK, but there is no reason to include it either. If the channel is a very busy one you likely don't want to stop every time there is activity on it. VERY annoying. There is a sort of half a**ed way to work around it but it should be required.

[jc1240]

Oh yeah, that Anytone CPS is horrible.  The cut/copy& paste is weak, can't select blocks of channels to move.  The keyboard shortcuts for move up/down don't work (at least on v1.21).  Several times I have had to reload the file because it/I screwed up beyond recovery.

 

As for scan lists, you can program a button for "nuisance delete" that will skip that channel during the scan, but doesn't actually delete it from the list.  Very nice, especially if you are getting a lot of noise on one.  

[tweiss3]

You are better off exporting to excel, adding what you want then import the excel file, instead of using the software to type out every channel.

[gman1971]

@tweiss3 Nah, I had enough of those CCRs and their terrible CPS. I had 6 of them in total at some point, down to just two MD5 and a 578... all for sale... btw... 

 

@LScott, yep, right there with you.

 

Its funny when Motorola users complain about the issues on the Motorola CPS .... I keep telling myself, "looks like you had an easy life, bud... try the AnyTone...."  yep... 

 

G.

[wayoverthere]

Its funny when Motorola users complain about the issues on the Motorola CPS .... I keep telling myself, "looks like you had an easy life, bud... try the AnyTone...." yep...

 

G.

I'll say wouxun's isnt stuck in my head as being horrible, roughly the same as chirp imo.

 

My vertex stuff was a bit more challenging, but a good portion of that is due to a lot more features and settings to go through.

 

Hit a brick wall at first with the evx, but it came down to having some out of band frequencies the radio didn't like...jumped to the vx mobile, and that went smoothly, and when I jumped back to the evx I had a better idea what I was doing. apparently what reads from the radio says they're 450-512 band split, not the 400-470 the seller indicated (unless I botched something). So not good for ham use, really, but solid reception for gmrs. The mobile is good to go though.

 

On a side note, I took a gamble on an ebay cable (bluemax49ers) for the evx before throwing down for the oem, and is working well so far. Bluemax didn't have them in stock for the mobile, so I got one from antenna farm that needed a driver install, and some poking at the port settings, but it's been good since.

[gman1971]

True, in the end, they all have little quirks, for sure, but some have more than others! (and some are just plain WTF)

 

The EVX CPS was radically different to anything else I've used up to that point, I still think its better than the Moto CPS for some things, for others, not so much!

 

The EVX (not VX) programming cable I got from antenna farm didn't work for me, so I had to get the FIF-12 for all my EVX radios... 

 

G.

[wayoverthere]

True, in the end, they all have little quirks, for sure, but some have more than others! (and some are just plain WTF)

 

The EVX CPS was radically different to anything else I've used up to that point, I still think its better than the Moto CPS for some things, for others, not so much!

 

The EVX (not VX) programming cable I got from antenna farm didn't work for me, so I had to get the FIF-12 for all my EVX radios... 

 

G.

yeah, given the need to install drivers, and the amount of poking at the comm port settings needed to get going, i'm not wholly surprised the Antenna Farm one didn't get along with the EVX.

 

noted on Anytone stuff though...they look SO tempting on the surface, but this, plus all the other quirks (was reading something about how they implemented scan, and another thread about ongoing unfixed software bugs) seems like a lot of reasons to pass.

[Lscott]

 

As for scan lists, you can program a button for "nuisance delete" that will skip that channel during the scan, but doesn't actually delete it from the list.  Very nice, especially if you are getting a lot of noise on one.  

That doesn't address the issue of the currently displayed memory channel being scanned even if it isn't in the current scan list. You can't delete what isn't there! I told their tech support guy if I wanted to scan the currently displayed channel I would have added it to the scan list. I don't need the radio to do it for me and not offer the option to exclude it. I told the tech support guy I have dozens of radio models that do scanning and NONE do what the D878UV does.

 

The only work around I've found is to insure that the currently displayed memory channel is one that appears in the selected scan list. It's extremely inconvenient to poke around on the radio to display a memory channel in the current scan list, and I have multiple scan lists so it's even more of a pain, before starting the scan. And not to mention these Chinese radios scan really slow.

 

The fastest radio I have for scanning is my Kenwood Ham tri-band radio, TH-D74A, which does about 30 memory channels in a hair over 1 second from my timing measurements, impressive.

 

https://www.kenwood.com/usa/com/support/pdf/TH-D74A.pdf

 

https://www.va2pv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/QST-Kenwood_TH-D74-Review_VA2PV-April_2017.pdf

 

I would like to see them to bring out a model that does DMR like the above they have for D-Star.

[tweiss3]

Eh, haven't been on DMR in a while, jumped on 3100 yesterday on the way home and got nothing but crickets after announcing myself.

[tweiss3]

I'd also like to add that scanning on digital is a waste of efforts. DMR put on the radio in promiscuous mode. D-Star, you are stuck with the current reflector, u mess you change it, no scanning required. No point in jumping around repeaters, they all are on the same base TG, or the one you key up (for 10 minutes).