What is the difference between these two radios? Rugged GMR25 vs. TH-8600

[WRPM228]

Hello!

I am a new GMRS license holder and have been researching the best off-road mobile option for my UTV.

After a lot of research, it came down to the Rugged Radios GMR25, but, I realized all they really are is a TH-8600 with programming and the TH is significantly less expensive because rugged has some insane markup pricing.

The issue is that I have been reading the TH-8600 does not have proper Type 95 certification, and therefore cannot be utilized to transmit on GMRS frequencies. So if this is true, what does Rugged do to the GMR25 that makes it certified?

Is there another sub $200 option out there that is water/dust proof and can legally transmit on GMRS frequencies?

Thank you for helping a newbie figure this out.

[WROZ250]

They are, essentially, the same radio.  One is Part95 because that's how they certified it with the FCC.  That said, you will find many of the Chinese radios with different labels that are electrically/functionally identical, but configured and certified for a particular market. 

The reality is that there is likely a 'secret procedure', usually something as simple as holding down one of the front panel buttons while powering the radio on, which will present a list of configuration options.  Doing the 'mod' does violate the certification, whatever it was.

So while the GMR25 is part 95, it can probably be made to operate on ham band, commercial, etc...  The TH-8600 probably has a configuration option to function as a Part 95 GMRS radio, but was not submitted for certification as such.  It's a modern game the Chinese seem to play with the FCC these days.

Also, while it is desirable to have a Part 95 radio (to 'keep it legal'), don't get too hung up on that. 

As you will discover by reading through the various forums here and chatting with other users, there are so many Part 90 radios that are in many cases cheaper, and yet far better quality than what is currently available.  Not in any way suggesting you don't use a 'legal' radio, just that you might want to read through the forums here before plunking down a few hundred dollars on 'standard offerings'.

If you just want to get on the air quickly ( and legally ), the UV-5G is extremely cheap (~$30). So much so it could be considered disposable.  That way you can get familiar with GMRS while hunting for the radio that is more what you are looking for.

Just one opinion...

[SteveShannon]

Unless you’re actually planning on driving your UTV under water, it’s doubtful you need full waterproof rating.  Something that’s splashproof is more common, especially for a mobile radio.  Watch some of the videos on the notarubicon YouTube channel. He is also on this forum as @OffRoaderXand isn’t quite as likely to try and talk you into something that you may not need.

[WRPM228]

32 minutes ago, WROZ250 said:

They are, essentially, the same radio.  One is Part95 because that's how they certified it with the FCC.  That said, you will find many of the Chinese radios with different labels that are electrically/functionally identical, but configured and certified for a particular market. 

The reality is that there is likely a 'secret procedure', usually something as simple as holding down one of the front panel buttons while powering the radio on, which will present a list of configuration options.  Doing the 'mod' does violate the certification, whatever it was.

So while the GMR25 is part 95, it can probably be made to operate on ham band, commercial, etc...  The TH-8600 probably has a configuration option to function as a Part 95 GMRS radio, but was not submitted for certification as such.  It's a modern game the Chinese seem to play with the FCC these days.

Also, while it is desirable to have a Part 95 radio (to 'keep it legal'), don't get too hung up on that. 

As you will discover by reading through the various forums here and chatting with other users, there are so many Part 90 radios that are in many cases cheaper, and yet far better quality than what is currently available.  Not in any way suggesting you don't use a 'legal' radio, just that you might want to read through the forums here before plunking down a few hundred dollars on 'standard offerings'.

If you just want to get on the air quickly ( and legally ), the UV-5G is extremely cheap (~$30). So much so it could be considered disposable.  That way you can get familiar with GMRS while hunting for the radio that is more what you are looking for.

Just one opinion...

Thank you for the information. So realistically what I can do to stay as legal as possible is only program transmit GMRS channels into the TH-8600. If I would do this, and only utilize GMRS with the correct settings, is there any way this could be distinguished from the expensive RR version?

[WRPM228]

27 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Unless you’re actually planning on driving your UTV under water, it’s doubtful you need full waterproof rating.  Something that’s splashproof is more common, especially for a mobile radio.  Watch some of the videos on the notarubicon YouTube channel. He is also on this forum as @OffRoaderXand isn’t quite as likely to try and talk you into something that you may not need.

I would agree, but I have not found any other "water resistant" mobile GMRS radios. I have seen some of his videos but will check out again, thanks.

[WROZ250]

47 minutes ago, WRPM228 said:

Thank you for the information. So realistically what I can do to stay as legal as possible is only program transmit GMRS channels into the TH-8600. If I would do this, and only utilize GMRS with the correct settings, is there any way this could be distinguished from the expensive RR version?

Well, technically speaking, just using GMRS channels in a non Part 95 radio is still 'breaking the rules'.  Again, I wouldn't get too hung up on that (personally).

FWIW, I did find the mod on Youtube and it is as simple as I thought.  If you want to have a 'legal radio' and this particular radio is what you want, I would suggest the Part 95 radio and use the Mod for other stuff.  Note however, the mod does decertify the radio, but in many cases, it can be reversed (but I'd check on that first)

If you really need/want the other frequencies, just go with the TH-8600 if it meets your requirements. 

As I noted in another posting in the Forum, as long as you don't cause problems for other users, nobody would know or care if your radio is Part 95. 

I think you will find many people are not using Part 95 radios, so get the radio that meets your needs/desires.

Again, regardless of what I've said here, being a newbie, I really think you should read through the forums to get a better idea of what is out there, radio wise, etc... before spending serious money.  As @Sshannon stated, watching the notarubicon videos on you-tube can be very helpful. Educate yourself before spending your money.

There are options out there when it comes to radios.

[SteveShannon]

4 hours ago, WRPM228 said:

I would agree, but I have not found any other "water resistant" mobile GMRS radios. I have seen some of his videos but will check out again, thanks.

Maybe this will help:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2012/07/weatherproof_gmrs_radio_guide.html

[WRPM228]

15 minutes ago, Sshannon said:

Maybe this will help:

https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2012/07/weatherproof_gmrs_radio_guide.html

Thank you, but these are all handhelds. Seems like there isn't much for options with weather resistant mobile radios.

[WRPM228]

4 hours ago, WROZ250 said:

Well, technically speaking, just using GMRS channels in a non Part 95 radio is still 'breaking the rules'.  Again, I wouldn't get too hung up on that (personally).

FWIW, I did find the mod on Youtube and it is as simple as I thought.  If you want to have a 'legal radio' and this particular radio is what you want, I would suggest the Part 95 radio and use the Mod for other stuff.  Note however, the mod does decertify the radio, but in many cases, it can be reversed (but I'd check on that first)

If you really need/want the other frequencies, just go with the TH-8600 if it meets your requirements. 

As I noted in another posting in the Forum, as long as you don't cause problems for other users, nobody would know or care if your radio is Part 95. 

I think you will find many people are not using Part 95 radios, so get the radio that meets your needs/desires.

Again, regardless of what I've said here, being a newbie, I really think you should read through the forums to get a better idea of what is out there, radio wise, etc... before spending serious money.  As @Sshannon stated, watching the notarubicon videos on you-tube can be very helpful. Educate yourself before spending your money.

There are options out there when it comes to radios.

So hypothetically if I was to buy the TH-8600, would I program only 1-7 on a low power setting and then 15-22 on a high power setting? 8-14 seem to be off limits, as they are supposed to be a max power of 0.5W, which the 8600 would not be capable of.

[Lscott]

6 hours ago, WRPM228 said:

Hello!

I am a new GMRS license holder and have been researching the best off-road mobile option for my UTV.

After a lot of research, it came down to the Rugged Radios GMR25, but, I realized all they really are is a TH-8600 with programming and the TH is significantly less expensive because rugged has some insane markup pricing.

The issue is that I have been reading the TH-8600 does not have proper Type 95 certification, and therefore cannot be utilized to transmit on GMRS frequencies. So if this is true, what does Rugged do to the GMR25 that makes it certified?

Is there another sub $200 option out there that is water/dust proof and can legally transmit on GMRS frequencies?

Thank you for helping a newbie figure this out.

I have a TH-8600. The radio is built like a tank, but that's about it's only good point. The power output is noticeably below the claimed values for VHF and UHF.

The worse part is the receiver. The selectivity sucks. Any moderately strong station, in my case UHF, breaks through on numerous  programed memory channels. I had to lock out several FRS/GMRS channels because a UHF fire dispatch transmitter some 15 to 20 miles out would break the squelch during scanning so well I thought it was a local transmitter on the frequency! Unless you're way out in the country side, no high power transmitters around, I would NOT recommend this radio. 

[WROZ250]

18 minutes ago, WRPM228 said:

So hypothetically if I was to buy the TH-8600, would I program only 1-7 on a low power setting and then 15-22 on a high power setting? 8-14 seem to be off limits, as they are supposed to be a max power of 0.5W, which the 8600 would not be capable of.

Correct! 

Those channels (8-14) are strictly low power (0.5W).  Running high power there would definitely get you noticed (not a good thing).  Not much down there anyway except 'bubble pack radios' and lots of kids playing with the walkie talkie mom and dad bought them for Christmas!

This is a decent listing of Frequency/Channel verses power: https://www.rightchannelradios.com/blogs/newsletters/gmrs-radio-frequencies-and-channels

[WRPM228]

7 minutes ago, WROZ250 said:

Correct! 

Those channels (8-14) are strictly low power (0.5W).  Running high power there would definitely get you noticed (not a good thing).  Not much down there anyway except 'bubble pack radios' and lots of kids playing with the walkie talkie mom and dad bought them for Christmas!

This is a decent listing of Frequency/Channel verses power: https://www.rightchannelradios.com/blogs/newsletters/gmrs-radio-frequencies-and-channels

Awesome. Would those channels I am looking for 1-7, 15-22, be wide band? I am looking at the software making sure this radio can do what I need before I purchase.

Also, in the settings, there is a "Step" option as shown in the picture I attached. What should this be set to?

Thanks for your help!

[WRPM228]

12 minutes ago, Lscott said:

I have a TH-8600. The radio is built like a tank, but that's about it's only good point. The power output is noticeably below the claimed values for VHF and UHF.

The worse part is the receiver. The selectivity sucks. Any moderately strong station, in my case UHF, breaks through on numerous  programed memory channels. I had to lock out several FRS/GMRS channels because a UHF fire dispatch transmitter some 15 to 20 miles out would break the squelch during scanning so well I thought it was a local transmitter on the frequency! Unless you're way out in the country side, no high power transmitters around, I would NOT recommend this radio. 

I'm pretty far in the woods, or will be when utilizing the radio. Main use would be talking to my riding group when taking the UTVs out. Did you ever find an alternative?

[Lscott]

6 hours ago, WRPM228 said:

I'm pretty far in the woods, or will be when utilizing the radio. Main use would be talking to my riding group when taking the UTVs out. Did you ever find an alternative?

I haven’t used it much in a while. Likely would be looking at something from the major Japanese Ham gear manufacturers. I could go with a used commercial radio but those are almost always mono band. I would want at least a dual band.

[Lscott]

17 hours ago, WRPM228 said:

Awesome. Would those channels I am looking for 1-7, 15-22, be wide band? I am looking at the software making sure this radio can do what I need before I purchase.

Also, in the settings, there is a "Step" option as shown in the picture I attached. What should this be set to?

Thanks for your help!

It wouldn't be a bad idea to program two sets of channels, one wide band and the other for narrow band. The radio has enough memory slots. Since you can legally talk to people using the cheap FRS radios, which are narrow band only, this would keep your audio from sounding way to loud and distorted to those users. One set would be labeled GMRS 1..GMRS 2 and so on as wide band. The second you can label FRS 1..FRS 2 etc. as narrow band.