simplex repeater ADS SR-1

[lazarus1024]

I thought I’d post a review of the ADS SR-1 simplex repeater. This little sucker is awesome. A simplex repeater is sort of a glorified voice mail system that can automatically repeater transmissions. In the case of the ADS SR-1 it has a lot of options. You can record messages (up to 174s total, or for like $12 more up to I think about 30 minutes), you can set it to automatically repeat the last message (or not). You can set it up as a station identifier/annunciator. More that I am not thinking of I am sure. Commands are accessed through touch tone (including a security code if you wish). 
 

I got this as much to have a cheap (in $, not in quality) simplex repeater for family/disaster use and for radio testing. Nothing says “I am not testing X right now” like not having a 2nd person available to test with. Especially if X person happens to be a wife or kids that often roll their eyes at you. 
 

I can wander hither and yon cos playing the Verizon guy from the ‘00s, “can you hear me now” and not test familial patients. 
 

me a downside to simplex repeaters is communications take twice as long. Because it’s recording your transmission and then rebroadcasting it with a slight delay (the SR-1 can be programmed for the length of delay. Default is 2 seconds. Basically it waits to make sure you’ve really for sure finished broadcasting before it begins repeating). 
 

man even more annoying issue is because it is simplex, you are broadcast and listening on the same frequency. Supposedly. So if you are in radio range of each other and the repeater, both people hear the transmissions twice. Once when you broadcast and a 2nd time when it is repeated. 
 

now GMRS equipment can use repeater channels to listen on the lower 462MHz frequencies and broadcast at the 467 frequencies. At least with the equipment I’ve tested, equipment not designed to be used as a repeater (standard HTs at least), cannot be used with a negative offset. Even if the frequencies are valid channels. For instance, I can set my UV-9g to listen at 462.600 and broadcast at 467.600 on a repeater channel. But I cannot then set it to listen at 467.600 and broadcast at 462.600 as one channel. 
 

maybe ADS-SR-1 is not itself a radio. It has to be attached to one through an audio to RJ45 jack. The company that makes it, makes several premade cables or you can fashion your own. The SR-1 can be powered off the radio if your radio jack has a 8v line. It turns out my Radioddity DB-25g has 8v out! So I went to fashion a custom patch cable. But alas it doesn’t have audio out on its handset jack. Only audio in and data in. So it won’t work. However it does have a headset audio jack on the back that is a 4-terminal ground-audio in-audio out-PTT style jack. So I can custom make a 3.5 audio to RJ45 jack for only a few dollars (the company has a Yaesu 3.5 to RJ45 premade cable. But the DB-25g has the ground and PTT terminals of the jack reversed compared to Yaesu. So I have to custom wire one). I haven’t been able to test with my DB-25g yet as I have cables income so I can custom make one. 
 

anyway, I tested in pure simplex with my H-777 and a UV-9g for a bit using a K-cable for the h777. Works great. I then grabbed a UV-9g data cable to K adapter and sat down this morning to get the ADS-SR-1 working with my Uv-9g. I figured I could set it up so my HTs would just use a repeater channel and the Uv-9g setup as a repeater could use a negative offset so it would Karen at 467 and broadcast on 462. Problem solved. If you were in radio range of the repeater and both parties using it, you would put hear the same broadcast twice. You’d just have the time lag before you head the other party’s message. 
 

then no dice. I can set a negative offset, but the Uv-9g won’t broadcast with it. It can listen on the repeater channel. After an hour of messing with it I realized something. The Uv-9g has a dual channel listen mode. I wonder if I have it set to simplex/non-repeater channels if it can then listen on the 467 channel, but broadcast on the separate simplex 462 channel?

 

success! So if I have the primary channel set to 462.725MHz and the secondary channel to 467.725MHz, it’ll listen to both, but only broadcast on 462.725. Then on the radios I want to use to talk to each other, I just set it on repeater channel 22 and those radios will Tx at 467.725 and then listen only on 462.725! So they won’t hear each other at all. But the Uv-9g setup as the simplex repeater can hear them on the repeater channel and broadcast at the lower channel they will hear. 
 

mine the downside is the repeater is sensitive to hear both 467.725 and 462.725. So if anyone is using channel 22, it will also repeat those transmissions back. However, using a PL code, the simplex repeater is NOT keyed unless the radios involved are using the same PL code. I’ve tested multiple times. So, so long as nobody is using channel 22 and my PL code, all functions as it should. 
 

my I am feeling good about my neat bit of problem solving. 
 

a couple last things, the SR-1 can also operate off two AA batteries. The literature says to use only Alkaline or Lithium batteries. However, I have a couple high capacity NiMH batteries it is working off of just fine. I can’t comment on battery life of it yet. A couple reviews I’ve read said a few days of alkaline batteries. It also uses a 5.5x2.5mm DC barrel connector and can run off 3-24v input. I’ve tested with a 5v and 12v adapter and it’s worked fine. 
 

At some point I am going to assemble an ammo can field repeater out of this. Probably with a UV-5 radio. There is a “batteryless” 12v cigarette adapter made for it. My plan is, out the radio and ADS-SR-1 in the ammo can with a 12v AGM battery, maybe around 7-10ah capacity. That should give both the repeater and radio several days of power (heck, maybe more than a week) even with modest use. Probably even a couple of days with extremely heavy use. One advantage of a simplex repeater in this scenario is it can only Tx at most 50% duty cycle as it’s listening half the time. Then pack a 10-20w solar panel for it. Instal bulkhead water proof DC connector and antenna jack on the can. Set somewhere with a bit of sun (even just a couple of hours a day) and the thing could probably operate indefinitely. 
 

I’ll get a 2nd SR-1 to run at my house for my base station for repeating. It’ll help out with activities like trick or treating as my neighborhood is kind of hilly (river valley with a number of ridges) and my house is on one of the taller ridges. With the antenna in my attic that gives me a relatively high vantage point to relay between HTs if two are trying to talk to each other while both are in valleys between ridges. They aren’t especially big ridges, but having a 20-50ft tall ridge completely between HTs for sure hurts. This will hopefully help with that significantly. 

[axorlov]

I mentioned it in the other thread, I also use Argent Data SR1 simplex repeater, and it is very useful and convenient little box. For those who do not know, it is not a real repeater, rather a controller for a radio, allowing it to record and re-transmit stuff.

8 hours ago, lazarus1024 said:

<...> I am feeling good about my neat bit <...>

In essence, you configured it to operate as a normal repeater with delayed repeat. Because of that you can go away without duplexer and with only one transceiver vs receiver-transmitter pair. I thought of that too, but decided to go with regular simplex repeater setup (one frequency) for a number of reasons.

Cool, anyway! Btw, commercial radios (TK-880 and TK-3170 in my case) can be programmed to listen on 467.xxx and transmit on 462.xxx without any trouble.

And the obligatory note: simplex repeater very likely runs afoul of Part 95 rule about store-forward systems not being allowed. I use it only when far away from civilization.

[WRQK522]

I have been interested into setting up a simplex repeater similar to what you are mentioning. I was planning on using the Surecom SR-112 . I have a plan on how to power the repeater. The only thing is I live in southeast Ohio lots of trees and hills . I can set the repeater high up in the trees etc. I just don’t think using a 5watt hand held with even a good antenna will be enough to cover the area I want it to cover.
My question is with the ADS-1 are you able to use a mobile radio such as a MXT115, or a Retevis RA25 radio?
If so what cables .


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[gman1971]

Nice review. Thanks. I have one too, very nice indeed.

G.

[DeoVindice]

19 hours ago, WRQK522 said:

I have been interested into setting up a simplex repeater similar to what you are mentioning. I was planning on using the Surecom SR-112 . I have a plan on how to power the repeater. The only thing is I live in southeast Ohio lots of trees and hills . I can set the repeater high up in the trees etc. I just don’t think using a 5watt hand held with even a good antenna will be enough to cover the area I want it to cover.
My question is with the ADS-1 are you able to use a mobile radio such as a MXT115, or a Retevis RA25 radio?
If so what cables .


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I have not used either of those mobiles, but I can attest to the fact that the AD-SR1 works nicely with mobile radios. I connected one to an EFJ 5300ES with a shop-built cable fabricated from an Ethernet cable and a DB15 solder connector.

The programmable CWID function is very nice to have. I have the various DTMF commands programmed into all of my portables for remote control of the repeater, which is mounted in my truck and can be readily powered off solar and a separate battery.

[lazarus1024]

19 hours ago, WRQK522 said:

I have been interested into setting up a simplex repeater similar to what you are mentioning. I was planning on using the Surecom SR-112 . I have a plan on how to power the repeater. The only thing is I live in southeast Ohio lots of trees and hills . I can set the repeater high up in the trees etc. I just don’t think using a 5watt hand held with even a good antenna will be enough to cover the area I want it to cover.
My question is with the ADS-1 are you able to use a mobile radio such as a MXT115, or a Retevis RA25 radio?
If so what cables .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So it depends. You'll need to look at the manual of the radio and see if you can make a custom cable. Yesterday I just finished making one for my Radioddity DB-25g radios. It was a HOT mess. No fault of the SR-1, or even the manual. So the SR-1 has several pins on its input, standard RJ-45 jack and it has the pinout in the manual. My DB-25g also has the pin out for its DB-25g RJ-45 port and it also has a TRRS mic/headphone port in back, important in this case.

The SR-1 NEEDS at a minimum 4 pins. PTT, mic, speaker and a ground to operate. It CAN also take a control pin (I forget what that is for, specialized radio output IIRC, not standard use) and an 8v power pin. Plus there is another ground on there if you need it with one pin not used at all.

My DB-25G has several pins, including 8v power! So I could power my SR-1 through the DB-25g (the SR-1 uses very little power. It can run on a couple of AA for a few days). BUT, it does not have a Speaker pin on its RJ-45, as the handset for it is designed for mic and data (keypad) input only, no output. But I can use the TRRS port and did successfully. I have ethernet tools and components already, so all I needed was a TRRS ready to solder plug and cable. But this is where things went south.

I made a cable and plugged it in to my DB-25g. I suspect a manufacturing problem in the TRRS port, because my radio is now STUCK in transmit mode. Like when inserted, the plug caused something to break and the PTT in the jack is now shorted. Hopefully Radioddity will replace it (working with them now) as nothing will fix it and no way to get at the port to replace it as its on the backside of the board inside the radio and several components would have to be desoldered to remove the board to get at the port. Even if they won't replace it, not worth the huge amount of hassle to desolder half a dozen major components just to try to get the board out and SEE what the problem is.

I have a 2nd DB-25g, from my car. So I tried it on that. Didn't work well. Near as I can tell, the TRRS port is a bit too deep. So I basically have to have the jack HELD pushed in for the SR-1 to work at all. I took the cable I made with a file and shaved the ground connector to make the jack able to insert a fraction of a millimeter deeper and that works now. I still have to really push the cable in, but it'll stay inserted deep enough to work. So not super happy with Radioddity on this that their TRRS port seems to be really crappy manufacture (looking in it and comparing to several other devices I have with TRS and TRRS ports, it seems to be a VERY bad design). Anyway, it DOES work. And hopefully whatever replacement I end up with for the now broken radio, the TRRS port works correctly.

One thing that did occur to me with those TRRS ports, is you probably could build a duplex repeater with a pair of DB-25g radios. Just set the Tx radio to VOX and plug in a TRRS cable from one radio to the other one and set them to the correct Rx frequency on one and the Tx frequency on the other one. I might give that a try at some point to see if it works as a VERY cheap Duplex repeater. AND, if I made a Y cable, I could plug the SR-1 in there between the radios and set it up for annunciator mode so it can be FCC compliant to send out a morse code station identifier at the correct intervals...

 

Ignoring the SR-1 cost, a pair of DB-25g radios is about $230 right now. Talk about stupid cheap GMRS duplex repeater! Of course you'll have to invest in the power supplies and I HIGHLY doubt the setup could be used at full power for more than maybe 30% duty cycle. But I'd imagine if you set it to low power (about 5.5w measured) you could probably use 100%, or near enough, duty cycle. Anyway, its a project for me to try at some point. Not sure I'd get a duplexer, so I'd probably try it with my 6dBi antenna in the attic and set my UT-72g on the top shelf of my basement above where the radios would sit. That puts it JUST at ground level. That'll get about 15ft of vertical separation, fairly high gain and I'd probably try it with the radios set to low power. Hopefully that won't cause desense issues. At any rate, it seems worth a try to see if it works at all at some point. Literally the only thing I'd be in for is a TRRS male to male cable to try it out. And if it does work at all, I can always see about tweaking things, like get a duplexer to use the existing attic 6dBi antenna, make a Y-cable to use my SR-1 as a station identifier. 

 

So, anyway, back to making other radios work, I'd imagine some can. You'll need to look at the manual to see if it has the pin out of any ports on it. Many use ONLY mic in and data in on the handset controller for the radio. HOWEVER, most have at least a mono TS speaker jack on them. You CAN make a combo cable to use the ground and speaker output from a TS jack and cable and run that in to the RJ45 jack you make and then a data cable for the front RJ45 port that'll take 8v power (if you want), mic, PTT and ground. I tried that with my DB-25g as I was having better success initially getting the speaker and ground to work on the TRRS port and the PTT and mic was not working well/at all until I shaved the plus on my custom cable. So the combo cable using the TRRS jack for speaker+ground and the data jack for 8v power, ground, PTT and mic DID work. But poorly because of the TRRS jack issues. Since I shaved the TRRS plug and it works just fine that way, I abandoned the Y-cable I made to use the data and TRRS ports on the radio.

 

Looking online at common GMRS mobile radios, the DB-25g is the ONLY one I can find that has the pinout for the RJ45 port and the TRRS port in the manual. The DB-25g is also the only one I can find that has a TRRS port on it. Most are just TS or TRS for mono or stereo speakers, no PTT or mic input on that port. A couple GMRS mobile base stations DO have speakers on their handsets. So they COULD be wired to work with an SR-1. However, the couple I found that have speakers in the handsets also, do NOT have the pinouts of that handset port in the manual. I didn't look at the Midland micro mobiles mind you. They might have the pinouts in the manual. I'd contact the manufacturer, or at least the seller (like buy two way radios), I'd imagine even money they'd get you the info.

One other thing I found with the DB-25g. On my UV-9g, I had to set one channel to Rx and one to Tx, because I cannot set one channel to Rx on the 467 channels and then Tx on the 462 channels. BUT since it can do dual monitor, it works. Because it does NOT change channels when it hears on the other traffic. The DB-25g CANNOT work like the UV-9g. It has quad channel listen, so I figured I could set it up the same. NOPE. If I leave it set to Tx on anything as the primary and listen to a secondary channel, it switches the Tx to the channel it last heard traffic on. So if it is Tx on 462 and that is set to primary and Rx on 467 and it hears traffic on 462, it automatically switches the primary channel over to the secondary and the SR-1 plays back on 467. So no dice on a "duplex" store and forward/simplex repeater that way. HOWEVER, the DB-26g, unlike the UV-9g has no problem setting a channel to Rx on the 467 and Tx on the 462 channels. In fact, if you want, it'll take a custom offset. So you could Rx on 467.725 and Tx on 462.600 if you wanted, or whatever other combo, so long as they are valid GMRS channels, you can set it to Rx and Tx at any of those frequencies on one channel. Which is VERY nice. Not that I think I'd use that. But anyway, that is how I also got my "duplex" setup to work on the DB-25g. Ignoring the hardware troubleshoot, the actual channel setup is much simpler. Just program one to Rx on 467 and then Tx on 462 and then on my HTs or a car mobile radio I can just set a channel as a regular repeater channel to Rx on 462 and Tx on 467. Of course setting a PL code is important so you aren't just recording ANY traffic on that channel. And I did also verify that PL codes work with the DB-25g and the SR-1.

 

Along the lines of the DB-25g duplex repeater using the TRRS port, it did occur to me you could probably setup a couple of HTs in a similar manner with the Tx one set in VOX and make a cross over cable so the mic and speaker are swapped going over to the other HT. Of course you'll need to deal with desense issues possibly, get a good duplexer or have antennas very widely separated, etc. And HTs are usually only rated to like 20% duty cycle. So you'll either need to set them to medium or low power and deal with very short range, or else it'll be extremely light duty. Simplex operation at least effectively doubles the duty cycle as the Tx radio operation is at half the actual conversation length. Which might take you from 3-5 minutes of operating at full power as a duplex repeater, and with the extra cooling between cycles, might get you like 8-15 minutes of near constant operation as a simplex repeater. Pure guessing here mind you. It could be more, it could be less. But it WILL be a lot longer (at a guess, 2.5-3x longer than in duplex). And setting it to medium power probably could be effectively unlimited duty cycle because its only Tx at most at 50%, and actually slightly less unless you want to shorten the SR-1 listen time to something impractically short. Because the default is 2 seconds. If it doesn't hear anything for 2 seconds, it switches to playback and you simplex repeater radio switches to Tx of the recording. So a 10 seconds message is going to have 2 extra seconds of "dead time" where the Simplex repeater is listening, but on one is transmitting. On the Tx end from the Simplex repeater, it'll cut off those 2 seconds of dead air, but depending on how long your conversations are, you are still adding some percentage of "cool down" time to the duty cycle of the repeater.

[lazarus1024]

50 minutes ago, DeoVindice said:

I have not used either of those mobiles, but I can attest to the fact that the AD-SR1 works nicely with mobile radios. I connected one to an EFJ 5300ES with a shop-built cable fabricated from an Ethernet cable and a DB15 solder connector.

The programmable CWID function is very nice to have. I have the various DTMF commands programmed into all of my portables for remote control of the repeater, which is mounted in my truck and can be readily powered off solar and a separate battery.

That's part of my use case that I'd like to try out. Though using a DB-25g for its much higher power output. Even if set only to medium power to preserve battery life. Toss a smaller solar panel on the dashboard and have a charge controller and small lead acid battery and you could make a $80 power kit for the mobile radio that could last indefinitely so long as the talk time wasn't excessive. You could get a couple of hours of talk time at medium power from a 7.2ah battery, ignoring any charging going on. A 25w flexible solar panel on the dashboard can realistically get about 10w of charging power (you lose light going through autoglass, even if it isn't darkly tinted). That would be enough to keep the battery charged up unless you are hammering the repeater a lot. If you wanted a heavy duty setup, a 50w flexible solar panel on the dashboard and something like a 20ah battery would cover it pretty well.

 

OR, just use something like a UV-5g/x as the repeater and a 12v "no battery" adapter for it. Then you could probably get away with that 7.2ah lead acid battery and a 10w flexible solar panel on the dashboard and pretty unlikely to ever run out of power operating as a repeater so long as you don't park in the woods or under cover. Shorter range than a more powerful mobile radio, but having a 4.2-6dBi antenna on your car/truck and parking it, hopefully, somewhere giving you LOS between where you'll be and where you want to talk to would be a big help.

[lazarus1024]

20 hours ago, WRQK522 said:

I have been interested into setting up a simplex repeater similar to what you are mentioning. I was planning on using the Surecom SR-112 . I have a plan on how to power the repeater. The only thing is I live in southeast Ohio lots of trees and hills . I can set the repeater high up in the trees etc. I just don’t think using a 5watt hand held with even a good antenna will be enough to cover the area I want it to cover.
My question is with the ADS-1 are you able to use a mobile radio such as a MXT115, or a Retevis RA25 radio?
If so what cables .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It may well work, I can't comment on the SR-112, but the reviews are pretty mixed. I'd just make sure you test it thoroughly before you are out of any return window. 

 

What area do you want to cover? My neighborhood is quite a lot of trees (I live about a mile from a large state park in Maryland). There is a new development without many trees nearby that I talk a walk through. Now, about 3/4s of the distance is fairly thick woods, but I tested the repeater just using one UV-9g with its factory antenna (1/4 wave design) and the SR-1 sitting on top of a bookshelf in my house, about 6ft AGL. Again, my house is on a shallow ridge, about 30ft above the local terrain, but where I was walking was UP hill towards the top of the river valley the whole neighborhood is in. So I was perhaps 20ft above where my house was "looking down" for a lot of this. Still, lots of trees, some house and in some cases small terrain features between myself and my house. The radio I was walking with was also a UV-9g, with a Nagoya 771g on it. Reception was 5x5 out to around 1-1.1 mile line of sight distance and then began to fall off and ONLY because I started over the local ridge line. So it wasn't minor terrain features blocking the way anymore. Once I got about 200yds past the peak of that ridge, with maybe 20ft of vertical ridge line between myself and the repeater I'd say it dropped to about 3x4. I kept going and about 1.4 miles from my house, about .3 miles past the top ridge line and now maybe 40ft below it I was down to maybe 2x2. I could still make out the conversations I was having with myself, but I had to turn the radio volume up is listen hard. A little further and behind ANOTHER hill (a very short, but steep, more like a berm than a hill, so like 15ft high and maybe only 30ft at the base) about 1.5 miles from my house and it was still working, but you'd need to repeat the transmission 2 or 3 times to mostly make it out. Maybe 1x1 or 1x2.

I am curious to try this out with my DB-25g, especially with the antenna in the attic. That's probably about 4dB higher gain, a much more powerful transmitter (another maybe 5-6dB) and better antenna performance (SWR is 1.01 on my attic antenna. The factory quarter wave is like 2.6. My Nogoya 771g is around 1.6-1.7). Oh and about 10ft higher off the ground. I'd bet that would extend my range to my HT significantly. Though terrain is STILL going to be the limiting factor. Its still going to punch through/diffract over much more strongly than what the UV-9g as the repeater is going to have been able to do, and it'll receive significantly better too.

Anyway, so HT to HT, the limiting factor was LOS issues, much more than vegetation. Heavy pine forest almost certainly would cause a pretty significant drop off. Most of the woods around me are deciduous (though the foliage is pretty thick at this point in May). If you had LOS, even in thick woods, I'd imagine you could get out 3-4 miles on HTs with reasonable antennas on them. Dense pines I'd imagine would cut that in half. getting the repeater up high would still help in this instance, as not a lot of places are truly FLAT, unless you live on the plains. A 30ft tall hill between you and the receiver is going to probably do more to attenuate signal than a mile of flat hardwood forest. So the less of that hill that is in the way, the better.

 

One final thought, with my testing, it is technically "twice as bad". Or at least twice as bad as at the receiver. Because my HT was having to punch through/diffract over everything to make it to the simplex repeater HT, get recorded, and then it was transmitted BACK to me, back through all of that stuff. I'd think, even if the signal is strong enough for reception, the loss in quality of the transmission would be at least the equivalent to a 3dB loss in fidelity. Now that wouldn't be any worse than if I was transmitting to the simplex repeater, that was then repeating it on vector exactly opposite of me, just as far away with identical terrain between the repeater and that person. That's still significantly better than me trying to reach that far away person DIRECTLY. Or you have a scenario where the other person is fairly near, or at least LOS to the repeater and I am not, what they'd hear and what I'd get back would have somewhat higher fidelity as there would be less loss in the Tx/Rx path between them and the repeater. So my testing is really the equivalent of testing two radios using the repeater who have identical signal strength paths to the repeater. Not like testing the actual signal strength directly to the repeater. Or even the repeater to a better or worse 2nd party signal path. But still fun and neat and a good way to test things on your own.

[WRQK522]

From my base antenna to the place I plan to put the repeater is about 4 miles. I’m lucky I live on a hill. It’s not the highest point of the hill but it’s fairly clear to the next hill and just a bit higher. The place I plan to put the repeater is fairly or would be fairly close to line of sight.
My radio at the house is 25watts . So I’m sure to hit my repeater. I just not sure even with a good antenna I can with just a 5watt radio hooked to the repeater report back to base radio. At some point I plan on upgrading my base radio antenna and cable. When I do that I can use that to help the repeater. I was wanting to use a Midland MXT115 or similar radio and the SR-112 combination. That would if I could use the MXT115 be plenty to reach the base radio . My brother only has a hand held radio. From his house to were I will put the SR112 will be fine , with a 5 watt radio.
Now that I have thought a little bit . The SR112 combined with 5watt radio might just be enough. For clear communication. I will have to try it with a radio I plan on hooking to the sr112.
Just go back into the place I want to set up and make a call back to base . See a signal from the repeater location to base will make it .
I have also thought about using a BTECH u25 amp to boost the wattage on the repeater radio also . It just will make it harder to hide the repeater rig .
I have several ideas just trying to come up with the most practical and compact way of doing it .
No more then we will use it power to run what ever I plan on using is not a big problem. So solar etc. isn’t going to be used . A 7mh battery will be used and we will charge it at home . That same battery will also be powering the radio and sr112.


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[lazarus1024]

WRQK522, sounds like testing time. If it is line of sight, even with a bit of vegetation I'd be surprised if you couldn't manage 4 miles clearly. I am pushing 70 miles with line of sight to a high repeater in southern Pennsylvanian from where I am transmitting from in Maryland from my UV9g handheld and a 771g antenna. Now it is very marginal now that the leaves are on the tree, but I can just manage. My DB-25g with a UT72g on the roof of my car manages it better. It is still not crystal clear now that the leaves are on the trees, but it is intelligible in both Rx and Tx. If you have actual line of sight, 5w will go a LONG distance.

 

If you have a tree there, throw a rope over a branch and hoist the whole thing up. You can also get a higher gain antenna for the repeater rig. It is going to be awhile before I build my ammo can repeater because of other commitments right now, but I plan to do some kind of reasonably high gain antenna that can be mounted direct to the ammo can, or with the option of remote mounting the antenna. Something like a UT72g with the counterpoise NMO mount