Toy to play with Harris XG-100P

[kidphc]

So I have a ham friend, whom kinda gets bored with radios quickly.  Heavily into LMR/Public safety gear. I refer to him to our "local Motorola crack dealer". To give you an idea of the type of guy he is, he's about to hand out 5 XTS2500s to friends of ours to use as GMRS radios.

****Long back story, skip if you like. Now real info on the XG-100P in the intro.

Last week I picked up a seldom used Unification G5 Pager from him. Pre-programmed with the good stuff, simply to mess around with. His ears kinda perked up when I said it was for my wife mainly. He has known for sometime I was looking for a EDC 2m/70cm rig with p25 capabilities. Which really is unfortunately only available in the newer APX series, well outside of my budget. I will refer to said friend as the "Racoon".

At a dinner, all his friends, many months ago I was playing with one of XG-100p radios. He kinda looks up from his meal and ask "wait you don't have one" casually. I of course respond nope. 1k buys a lot of clothes and meals for my 3 little ones.

Well our little group has always tried to help each other out. Really, a great group of people. He has hit a rough spot, being out of work and funds drying up. He was looking at lack luster jobs to try to get caught back up. Really, I hope he can get into a government radio shop, crap the guys he knows in shops routinely buy him lunches to figure crap out. He has forgot more than most will ever know. Politics be politics and getting hired in said shop is all about the politics. He was selling about 4-6 APX mobiles/hts a month. As his his supply ran dry, the financial pinch began.

So I try the usual, trying to perk him up. Dinners, and drinks out, he has been there for me just trying to return the favors he has given me in the past. Printed a human skull on the 3d printer and spent the better part of 2 weeks painting it up for one of his online D&D groups, etc.

During our meet up last week, he has a broken XG-100p with him. Talking about dismantling it in the coffee shop sometime soon with me to fix it. Volume button was springy so it was interment usability. That if we can get working is mine as a semi-permanent loaner.

Yesterday, in comes a message "what time you heading home"? We meet up, originally I thought it was for an Impress charger, so I can use the damn battery display on y XTS5k. Remember, those XTS2.5ks, I of course asked if he had a spare charger, saves me about $50-60 bucks. 2 seconds after handing me the charger he hands me the Harris Unity XG-100p. I ask when we fixing her? His reply "all ready done". Curious to see how he likes the mobile version the  XG-100m, which he sold his APX 7k mobile for. He made the cables for it, and said he would never do it again. Came out to the cost of just buying them on ebay.

***** The XG-100p

So the XG-100p was Harris' entry into the Public Service domain to compete with Motorola offerings at the time. Harris has a long standing history with military radios and it shows. This radio is essentially a military radio (there expertise) crammed into a commercial body. So I don't think it is a rugged as an APX. The screen isn't set as deep into the body as an APX. Seen a lot of photos with shattered screens.

Some features for those that don't know.

 

• Full Spectrum
  • VHF 136-174 MHz (1-6 watts), UHF -380-520 MHz (1-5 watts), UHF 762-870 Mhz (1-5 watts.
• APCO/Conventional P25
• MDC 1200
• Analog wide/narrow
• GPS/Bluetooth
• Meets MIL-STD-810F military standards
• Color (non touch screen

Positives I like in the first 24 hours.

• Banks selection
• Mission planning
  • Military background starting to show
  • this one rocks and wish every radio had it
  • You can have multiple Mission plans saved and load it up on the fly.
    • For instance you have a Canada mission plan, California, Maryland, Virginia, Florida each having all their different zone information. You can swap the mission plan according to your location or needs. This can all be copied between radios with a special cable, I believe also OTA, not sure. Much like the APX series ability to send programming information to a fleet of radios.
• FPP programming
  • More like channel editing
  • Still better then nothing
• Pretty color screen
  • Not a touchscreen, ever tried to use a touchscreen with gloves?
• Noise cancellation
  • has 2 mics, one on the front and one on the back
• Bluetooth
• Much cheaper then its APX series (closest to feature set) $1200 vs $2500-9000.

Cons Thus Far first 25 hours

• Fricking brick
  • don't drop it, it might go through the floor
• Sound quality
  • Not as loud and clear as the APX, much less even compared to the XTS 5k, or even the Unification G5
    • Sharper sound, it's hard to explain the other radios do a better job with the mids and so it will sound clearer and less tiny
    • with the volume all the way up it can hurt your ears.
• The form factor
  • Its a slippery radio that is shaped like a box.
    • It would of been nice to have some texture on the side of radio to grip it better when wet or periods
    • The ears are more pronounced on the APX and the XTS is just comfortable ergonomically speaking for me
      • with more pronounced ears it is easier to catch/grip the radio from a downward vertical slip
• Support sucks, it is EOL'ed
  • No schematics, no parts, no really any help if things go awry... BEFORE WARNED.
  • L3Harris basically, has everything for this radio marked as internal and will not give it to you
• OMG.... THE COST
  • Chargers are not cheap used avg is $60-100
• Programming cable 
  • avg cost $100, used cheapest I found, $400 or so for a new one
• Legit RPM14 Programming software pricey
  • We are talking about averaging $750 vs Motrolas usal $380 or so.

 

 

[Lscott]

See attached brochure.

XG-100P.pdf

[kidphc]

2 minutes ago, Lscott said:

See attached brochure.

XG-100P.pdf 615.3 kB · 0 downloads

Much obliged thank you.

[kidphc]

2 more gripes

• Jockey pad is a bit small.
  • Looks like they tried to rectify it in the next series, the XL
• Ptt button bit low
  • Wish the PTT was up higher where one of the programmable button is located
  • Would be easier to grip and activate PTT.
    • could just use to Motorola ergonomics

[Lscott]

How easy is the screen to read in full sun light? That seems to be the major pitfall with a lot of radios using these newer color LCD displays, some are hard to read.

[kidphc]

Not so bad... But it has been overcasted a bit lately. I will try to snap a pic with it in full noon sunlight.

Definitely, overkill for ham usage. Well unless you do a lot of public service work that has integration to PD, FD, SARS or public services. But usually they will hand you a Motorola pre-programmed for what you need.

[tweiss3]

Yes, I have been looking for a 100P for my collection. I have figured out how to program, but haven't found one to buy yet (for reasonable prices). The problem I see is half of them have Wideband Disabled on the entitlement list, which is a deal killer. Programming is very very interesting, as is having multiple mission plans (having a rotation of codeplugs to swap out on the go without a computer as far as I understand it).

[kidphc]

9 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

Yes, I have been looking for a 100P for my collection. I have figured out how to program, but haven't found one to buy yet (for reasonable prices). The problem I see is half of them have Wideband Disabled on the entitlement list, which is a deal killer. Programming is very very interesting, as is having multiple mission plans (having a rotation of codeplugs to swap out on the go without a computer as far as I understand it).

Yup that is exactly what the mission plan is. Hence, why I wish it was a feature on all radios. After loading it performs a soft reboot.

What is your idea of a reasonable price? Problem is buying used could be a problem since you are not sure what you are getting. So the seller is almost critical.

[Lscott]

Talking about "Mission Plans" I wonder if it's like the Kenwood TK-5210's. I don't have any of them, seen them for sale. I did install the software to see exactly what features are available. Yikes! these are nothing like any of the other Kenwoods I have.

For the 5210 you create named groups of channels called "Personal". Then you can create zones and populate them with selections from the named "Personal" channel lists. You can have the same channel appear in more than one zone. This way you don't need to duplicate channels.

[kidphc]

2 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Talking about "Mission Plans" I wonder if it's like the Kenwood TK-5210's. I don't have any of them, seen them for sale. I did install the software to see exactly what features are available. Yikes! these are nothing like any of the other Kenwoods I have.

For the 5210 you create named groups of channels called "Personal". Then you can create zones and populate them with selections from the named "Personal" channel lists. You can have the same channel appear in more than one zone. This way you don't need to duplicate channels.

A lot of these CPS even in the same line have a steep learning curve. Take a XTS5000 versus its mobile version the XTL5000, the code plugs aren't really any where near the same. Even require 2 different CPS software. I think the APX series they were trying to unify the mobile and portable CPS.

I hear horror stories of trying to get software for the Kenwood NX series if you don't have a dealer that is Ham friendly. Much less assistance on programming. Guess that is why a lot of Hams stick to Motorolas.

[SteveShannon]

14 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Talking about "Mission Plans" I wonder if it's like the Kenwood TK-5210's. I don't have any of them, seen them for sale. I did install the software to see exactly what features are available. Yikes! these are nothing like any of the other Kenwoods I have.

For the 5210 you create named groups of channels called "Personal". Then you can create zones and populate them with selections from the named "Personal" channel lists. You can have the same channel appear in more than one zone. This way you don't need to duplicate channels.

So one more level of organization than DMR? So, when you add selections to zones are you including the entire Personal group of individual channels or do you assign channels to zones individually?

[tweiss3]

46 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Yup that is exactly what the mission plan is. Hence, why I wish it was a feature on all radios. After loading it performs a soft reboot.

What is your idea of a reasonable price? Problem is buying used could be a problem since you are not sure what you are getting. So the seller is almost critical.

Exactly. I'm not exactly itching to buy one, its expensive and a bit outdated. I'm really looking for the $800 range, but I don't have the cash burning a hole in my pocket right now either. It's also pushing the cost towards the line in the back of my head "just get a VP8000", since I have someone to help me with issues, and I've actually held it/messed with the menus. 

[tweiss3]

49 minutes ago, Lscott said:

Talking about "Mission Plans" I wonder if it's like the Kenwood TK-5210's. I don't have any of them, seen them for sale. I did install the software to see exactly what features are available. Yikes! these are nothing like any of the other Kenwoods I have.

For the 5210 you create named groups of channels called "Personal". Then you can create zones and populate them with selections from the named "Personal" channel lists. You can have the same channel appear in more than one zone. This way you don't need to duplicate channels.

This sounds almost like early version of Armada (for the Viking series radios). I haven't actually used the software yet though.

[tweiss3]

43 minutes ago, kidphc said:

A lot of these CPS even in the same line have a steep learning curve. Take a XTS5000 versus its mobile version the XTL5000, the code plugs aren't really any where near the same. Even require 2 different CPS software. I think the APX series they were trying to unify the mobile and portable CPS.

I hear horror stories of trying to get software for the Kenwood NX series if you don't have a dealer that is Ham friendly. Much less assistance on programming. Guess that is why a lot of Hams stick to Motorolas.

The NX series isn't hard to get. If you are really interested in the wideband, let me know, I can point you to the dealer I used who was very friendly. He also helped @Lscottwith entitlements.

[kidphc]

11 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

The NX series isn't hard to get. If you are really interested in the wideband, let me know, I can point you to the dealer I used who was very friendly. He also helped @Lscottwith entitlements.

Appreciate it, got a quote for about $2500-2600 for a dual brick NX mobile with entitlements and software from a friend who is a Kenwood dealer.

 

On a side note:

Too bad there is now real way to get around the Wideband issue on UHF. unless it was enabled on purchase or a demo model. L3Harris has no  part97 grant, nor do they care.  If the USCG Aux can't get L3Harris to enable wideband on the 70cm portion d for their fleet, we will probably never see it. Well unless someone finally hacks it, highly doubtful.

So adjusting gain and screaming in the mic as I kiss the radio with each word will be the only way to be heard at times on 70cm and GMRS.

[kidphc]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

So one more level of organization than DMR? So, when you add selections to zones are you including the entire Personal group of individual channels or do you assign channels to zones individually?

Don't have the RPM software or cable yet. So hard for me to answer this.

But from what I get. You would create individual channels to assign to a zone and a bank.  I believe, but until I play with it, I can't answer straight forward.

[kidphc]

40 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

Exactly. I'm not exactly itching to buy one, its expensive and a bit outdated. I'm really looking for the $800 range, but I don't have the cash burning a hole in my pocket right now either. It's also pushing the cost towards the line in the back of my head "just get a VP8000", since I have someone to help me with issues, and I've actually held it/messed with the menus. 

I can ask my "Motorola crack dealer" to try and locate one, he is "resourceful" and has contact across the country. At that price point it will probably be much less then 100% ideal. 100% legit, most likely with the all the correct tags. Chances it will be the radio, no battery, no charger, no antenna with cosmetic defects. But don't hold your breath.

[kidphc]

6 minutes ago, kidphc said:

I can ask my "Motorola crack dealer" to try and locate one, he is "resourceful" and has contact across the country. At that price point it will probably be much less then 100% ideal. 100% legit, most likely with the all the correct tags. Chances it will be the radio, no battery, no charger, no antenna with cosmetic defects. But don't hold your breath.

Spoke to him and he said none available with the current feature set. They are out there but hard to find at that price point, and get gobbled up at a pretty penny.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, kidphc said:

I hear horror stories of trying to get software for the Kenwood NX series if you don't have a dealer that is Ham friendly. Much less assistance on programming. Guess that is why a lot of Hams stick to Motorolas.

That's the issue with their new NX line of radios. I'm guessing they want everyone to go through their dealer network.

The licensing model Kenwood uses for the new NX series is a PIA from a single user/hobbyist point of view. Very unfriendly and expensive. Read some horror stories about people having hard disks die. They reinstall the software on a new drive but it won't recognize the license. Some are lucky and Kenwood feels kindly so they reset the license in their server, others they tell them buy another one for $100 plus each. They are looking more like Motorola, and will likely earn the same ire after a while too.

The point to consider is what happens when it's time to replace the radio? Right now with the older radios the software is fortunately easy to get through various sources. There is a good business being done where people like me are forking over money to buy them since you can at least reprogram the radio. If you can't easily get get the programming software IMHO that considerably reduces the residual value it has. That's why I have ZERO interest in the NX-3000 and NX-5000 series. At least for the NX-1000 series there is a hacked version of the software that gets rid of the Internet license server and single PC locking crap. The cost of the software was a bit high but the deal killer was the ease of use issue. Now I'm a happy owner of a new NX-1300, at $400, a sale they never would have gotten without the hacked version of the software. If a hacked version is made available for the other two I would be seriously looking at getting one.             

[tweiss3]

37 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Appreciate it, got a quote for about $2500-2600 for a dual brick NX mobile with entitlements and software from a friend who is a Kenwood dealer.

 

On a side note:

Too bad there is now real way to get around the Wideband issue on UHF. unless it was enabled on purchase or a demo model. L3Harris has no  part97 grant, nor do they care.  If the USCG Aux can't get L3Harris to enable wideband on the 70cm portion d for their fleet, we will probably never see it. Well unless someone finally hacks it, highly doubtful.

So adjusting gain and screaming in the mic as I kiss the radio with each word will be the only way to be heard at times on 70cm and GMRS.

That must be missing some features/entitlements, otherwise that's correct for hardware. I paid retail for my 5800 deck. 

[tweiss3]

12 minutes ago, kidphc said:

Spoke to him and he said none available with the current feature set. They are out there but hard to find at that price point, and get gobbled up at a pretty penny.

Like I said, It's not a need to have, and I have the time to sit and wait. I don't need Phase 2, just U+V without wideband disabled.

[Lscott]

1 hour ago, Sshannon said:

So one more level of organization than DMR? So, when you add selections to zones are you including the entire Personal group of individual channels or do you assign channels to zones individually?

It looks like it's done on an individual basis. I haven't played with the software extensively but that seems to be the way it was intended to be done. The other thing is the radio comes in I think 3 different hardware versions. Due to the above I have sort of lost interest in getting one even if it's a reasonably priced used P25 radio.

[kidphc]

10 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:

Like I said, It's not a need to have, and I have the time to sit and wait. I don't need Phase 2, just U+V without wideband disabled.

Like the other LMR/Public Safety radios. There are hacks in various forms. It's just find the person or dealer to talk to. Most don't want to deal with grey line stuff so won't bother. The other 1/2 hide in the dark. So if you don't know, you don't know.

[kidphc]

3 minutes ago, Lscott said:

It looks like it's done on an individual basis. I haven't played with the software extensively but that seems to be the way it was intended to be done. The other thing is the radio comes in I think 3 different hardware versions. Due to the above I have sort of lost interest in getting one even if it's a reasonably priced used P25 radio.

NIce.

At least you can do that. Can't even do that with the XTL5k. You need to hook up to at least one radio to read the serial before you can even open a file.

What version RPM is that?

[tweiss3]

2 minutes ago, kidphc said:

NIce.

At least you can do that. Can't even do that with the XTL5k. You need to hook up to at least one radio to read the serial before you can even open a file.

What version RPM is that?

That is Kenwood's stuff. All the kenwood softwares allow you to program a codeplug without the radio first.

 

BTW, RPM14 from Harris is very interesting. Take what you know about motorola and kenwood combined, and toss it out the window.