Remote wake up/ selective call

[4x4le]

I have been searching the web for a radio or set of radios that would suit my needs. I would like a radio that could monitor a repeater channel but remain silent until "something" activates it or breaks its squelch. I understand that it is what PL tones do, but repeaters already have an input and output set. So, I wonder if any radios allow for 2 different PL tones to be input simultaneously? 

I know that most gmrs radios seem to have DTMF capability to send, but they generally do not decode or make use of them on the receiving side. 

Once the radio wakes up, I don't mind if all repeater traffic comes across it, but in my situation, I would like for it to sit silently until it is "activated" or called.

The receiving radio does not need to be a GMRS radio, as it only has to alert that a family member is trying to make contact. It could be a HAM radio or scanner. At that point, the contact can turn on a GMRS radio to complete the contact.

I realize that the audio from a HT could probably be piped into an Arduino or a Raspberry Pi, and a DTMF decoder could be programmed to trigger an alarm, but I am guessing there are probably radios that have this functionality.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[WRUU653]

It sounds like you want to use the repeater but on separate tones than regular traffic which can be done by putting in a second set of tones on the repeater. Of course it would need to be your repeater. 

[SteveShannon]

14 hours ago, 4x4le said:

I have been searching the web for a radio or set of radios that would suit my needs. I would like a radio that could monitor a repeater channel but remain silent until "something" activates it or breaks its squelch. I understand that it is what PL tones do, but repeaters already have an input and output set. So, I wonder if any radios allow for 2 different PL tones to be input simultaneously? 

I know that most gmrs radios seem to have DTMF capability to send, but they generally do not decode or make use of them on the receiving side. 

Once the radio wakes up, I don't mind if all repeater traffic comes across it, but in my situation, I would like for it to sit silently until it is "activated" or called.

The receiving radio does not need to be a GMRS radio, as it only has to alert that a family member is trying to make contact. It could be a HAM radio or scanner. At that point, the contact can turn on a GMRS radio to complete the contact.

I realize that the audio from a HT could probably be piped into an Arduino or a Raspberry Pi, and a DTMF decoder could be programmed to trigger an alarm, but I am guessing there are probably radios that have this functionality.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Some radios have a wake up feature that allow you to use CTCSS or DTCSS to get through the repeater and then separately send eith a two tone, five tone, or DTMF sequence to wake up a radio.  That’s more commonly available than using two different CTCSS or DTCSS tones. Most inexpensive radios cannot send two different CTCSS or DTCSS tones and whatever tones are required by the repeater are continuously needed.

Look for 2-tone or 5-tone settings in the instructions and make sure someone has been able to use them successfully.  On the forums recently someone was trying to do the same thing without success.

[4x4le]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I haven't came back, I figured I would get an email that said I had a reply.

Yes, it seems that you all understand what I am wanting to do, I just have not had any success. 

The radios I currently have are gmrs uv5rs. In chirp they actually say they are radiodiddy uv5gs. I also have a tdh3 and a tdh8. I can not figure out how to get them to do a selective call on simplex, let alone try through a repeater. A mobile unit I am wanting to buy says it has 2 tone and 5 tone. It is not the unit that I would want to "wake up" but would be the unit I would have hopes of waking up another radio. Essentially, it does not need to be one I currently own. If it had that functionality it would be worth any cost. I guess I dont know what this feature is called because searching for it does not give me explicit results with what I'm looking for. I have tried searching for radios with remote wakeup, selective call, multiple squelch, DTMF squelch to name a few.

[MaxHeadroom]

Motorola, Harris, Kenwood/EFJ - almost all commercial/public safety radios will offer what you're looking for. GMRS doesn't have it in the radios you normally see because to be totally blunt, most of them are all rebranded from the same reference design and "radio on a chip", and most of those manufacturers won't bother putting anymore more than DTMF SelCall on the feature list.

Motorola calls it MDC1200, Harris of yore called it GE-Star or similar, Kenwood called it FleetSync... its a small "data burst" you initiate and the receiving radio stays muted until it receives a burst with its ID contained within it. When the receiving radio does receive a call/page, it will either beep and then unmute, or beep incessantly until the user hits PTT to say something at which point you know they're "free".

This was used primarily in situations like GMRS where there's one repeater, tons of users, and no one wants the radio going off 24/7 with irrelevant traffic - like cab companies.

As for "legality" - GMRS allows it by rule. Repeater owners and other operators that barely grasp PLs will get mad about "that digital crap on the radio". We run it almost exclusively here to keep the channel muted.

 

[4x4le]

On 8/4/2024 at 9:38 PM, WRXP381 said:

A $20 boof want has 2 and 5 tone availability as does ever other ham and gmrs radio I have seen.  However most repeater owners hate them because they are annoying. 

I have 2 uv5rs, but i dont see how to make them silent until they receive a 2 tone or 5 tone. I always thought 2 tone was another word for DTMF, I may be wrong though. I know how to dial dtmf, and even have it at the front or back or both of a transmission, but i dont know how to make them respond to anything DTMF. I thought they couldnt decode it.

[CSL12688]

You can buy a DTMF relay on Amazon for about $20 and then wire it up to power on an external speaker. This is what I’ve done. I can activate and deactivate a remote speaker with DTMF tones. Unfortunately, some repeaters block DTMF tones from being transmitted. Before you go to the trouble of getting a relay, I’d make sure that the repeater will allow the tones to pass through.

[WRUU653]

@4x4le if you come to and implement a solution please share it. Thanks and good luck. 

[Jonolvey]

On 8/31/2024 at 3:16 PM, 4x4le said:

I have 2 uv5rs, but i dont see how to make them silent until they receive a 2 tone or 5 tone. I always thought 2 tone was another word for DTMF, I may be wrong though. I know how to dial dtmf, and even have it at the front or back or both of a transmission, but i dont know how to make them respond to anything DTMF. I thought they couldnt decode it.

Baofeng menu #11

R-ctcs is a tone squelch

T-ctcs is the setting for the tone to open repeater 

 

 

 

[SteveShannon]

1 hour ago, Jonolvey said:

Baofeng menu #11

R-ctcs is a tone squelch

I think you missed what he was asking.  He wanted another level of alerting so that his radio doesn’t simply break squelch whenever the repeater is active, but so his radio will be silent until two things occur: 

1. The repeater sends the correct “privacy” tone, and
2. Whoever is trying to reach him embeds a pattern of tones (DTMF, or 2-tone or 5-tone) that matches his specific alert tone.

 

[Jonolvey]

11 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

I think you missed what he was asking.  He wanted another level of alerting so that his radio doesn’t simply break squelch whenever the repeater is active, but so his radio will be silent until two things occur: 

1. The repeater sends the correct “privacy” tone, and
2. Whoever is trying to reach him embeds a pattern of tones (DTMF, or 2-tone or 5-tone) that matches his specific alert tone.

 

Thank you

[4x4le]

On 9/15/2024 at 10:43 AM, WRUU653 said:

@4x4le if you come to and implement a solution please share it. Thanks and good luck. 

So i do now own a radio that has the ability to "remote waken" but the manual does not speak of it. It is an radiodiddy db-50. Same as an anytone 5888uv. I believe the gmrs equivalent is a radiodiddy db-40. I will be looking into the manuals for those radios to see if there is any mention of this on them.

As far as what can "remote waken" it, it is 5 tone only, and none of my radios have 5 tone abilities besides the db-50. 

I also dont know what it means. It has where i can kill or stun it, and its possible that it just reverts it. What I hope it means is that it is listening on the frequency it was shut off last, or on a specified waken frequency and will power on when it gets the tones. 

It will take more time and tinkering.

[SteveShannon]

6 hours ago, 4x4le said:

So i do now own a radio that has the ability to "remote waken" but the manual does not speak of it. It is an radiodiddy db-50. Same as an anytone 5888uv. I believe the gmrs equivalent is a radiodiddy db-40. I will be looking into the manuals for those radios to see if there is any mention of this on them.

As far as what can "remote waken" it, it is 5 tone only, and none of my radios have 5 tone abilities besides the db-50. 

I also dont know what it means. It has where i can kill or stun it, and its possible that it just reverts it. What I hope it means is that it is listening on the frequency it was shut off last, or on a specified waken frequency and will power on when it gets the tones. 

It will take more time and tinkering.

Over the years I’ve argued against people who condemn “cheap Chinese radios” for GMRS, but one thing I cannot argue against is the fact that documentation is better for higher quality radios.  Of course that can be taken to an absurd degree also; my Yaesu FT5dr has a general operations manual, a manual for APRS, and advanced manual, a manual for the software used to program it and one more for use on C4FM.

My Alinco is better. It just has two manuals. It’s a variant on an Anytone radio also. With that in mind, maybe this will help. It’s the manual for the Alinco DR-638 which is their version of the Anytone 5888. http://www.radiomanual.info/schemi/Vari/Alinco_DR-638H_user.pdf

Many (nearly all in my experience, from Baofeng to Yaesu) radios should be able to send a 5-tone signal.  For the 5888 to decode them you want both menu 9, 5 tone additional signaling, and menu 11, CTCSS Decode, to be set.

Be careful with your experimentation. Stun and kill mean different things for different radios.  See this thread: 

 

 

[WSEP954]

Apparently the Retevis RA87 has 2-tone signaling as well as MSK signaling but I would need a second unit in order to test. MSK might be slightly less annoying than DTMF. 

[SteveShannon]

2 hours ago, WSEP954 said:

Apparently the Retevis RA87 has 2-tone signaling as well as MSK signaling but I would need a second unit in order to test. MSK might be slightly less annoying than DTMF. 

Do you have any handheld radios? If so it probably has the ability to send 2-tone. 

[WSEP954]

19 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

Do you have any handheld radios? If so it probably has the ability to send 2-tone. 

I do but they are NR30/NR30S dummy-proof family handouts with minimal programming capability. I will eventually get another RA87 setup at my residence for calling capability if it ends up working. I’m especially curious about the MSK. 

[Guest]

A $20 boof want has 2 and 5 tone availability as does ever other ham and gmrs radio I have seen.  However most repeater owners hate them because they are annoying.