dPMR and dPMR446 Radios?

[Lscott]

Anyone messed around with some dPMR digital radios? Note this is NOT DMR. Specifically I'm looking at what it takes to program one to intra-operate with the EU's license free dPMR446 service running 0.5 watt radios. Of course it uses our Ham 70cm band here so one would require a US Ham license to test it out.

https://www.kenwood.eu/files/file/comms/uk/brochures/TK-3701D_20191030_LR.pdf

https://kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/files/file/comms/uk/pmr446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf

I have just received a IC-F3162DT VHF radio, however I'm waiting on delivery of the UHF version, IC-F4162DT. The later is the one I'm interested in setting up a zone for dPMR446. The VHF radio I would just setup for general digital communications on 2M, using any established talk groups etc for the mode.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/500-ic-f3162dt-front-and-back-sidepng/?context=new

The dPMR446 radios seem to use a simplified radio ID and talk group ID scheme, referred to as a "Common ID". There are a few other difference. See the standards document for the gory details:

https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102400_102499/102490/01.09.01_60/ts_102490v010901p.pdf

Also has anyone stumbled another Ham using a dPMR radio on VHF or UHF? I'm interested in what talk groups are being used.  Also any repeaters in the US?

 

[tweiss3]

I'm seeing zero documentation between 446 license free and Mode 1/2. You don't happen to be getting a license free radio as well? I would think it may be as easy as some attempts between programming to figure it out. 

You can look at the manual for a dPMR446 radio, like the Icom IC-F29DR2: https://www.icomjapan.com/api/download.php?post_id=1747&fl=JTJGdXBsb2FkcyUyRnN1cHBvcnQlMkZtYW51YWwlMkZJQy1GMjlEUjJfSU1fTXVsdGlfMmEucGRm

Page 13 outlines frequency/common ID:

[Lscott]

The main hangups are:

1. dPMR446 encodes a "channel ID" code in one of the super frames transmitted, where as dPMR does not. Those channel codes are listed in the standards documentation, which I've been reading, for dPMR446 for each official frequency.

https://www.startpage.com/do/dsearch?q=etsi++ts+102+490+pdf&cat=web&language=english

2. As seen above dPMR446 uses the concept of "Common ID". In dPMR there is a range from 0 to 9999999 split, user programmable, between radio ID's and talkgroup ID's. Trying to figure out how to map radio and talkgroup ID's to "Common ID" isn't clear, or even possible.

3. Then there is the use of a wildcard character, "*", which causes dPMR446 to treat the "Common ID" differently.

For number 1 above I'm not sure what the two would do with respect to the channel ID codes. The radios might just fail to work or choke with the unexpected information in one case, or missing information in the other.

For number 2 above the example is for an Icom radio. However I have the software, no radio, for a Kenwood TK-3701D dPMR446 radio and it's the same way.

The way it might work is setting the split range at 1 in a dPMR radio so every ID is treated as a talkgroup. I think that would reproduce the same functionality as the "Common ID" performs in a dPMR446 radio.

If I can't figure out how to get this to work my second quest is finding out what the typical talkgroups, and radio, ID's used on the Ham bands are in the EU. I might as well use something that is established even if it isn't US centric. dPMR repeaters have some limited linking ability so using the same talkgroup and radio ID's would keep the confusion to a minimum. I'm sure there are some other Hams like me experimenting with these radios. After all I did purchase one from a US seller.

https://forums.mygmrs.com/gallery/image/500-ic-f3162dt-front-and-back-sidepng/?context=new

 

[tweiss3]

I see there is a plugin for SDR#, you could try to see the difference between both radios, but it will still require you acquire a dPMR446 radio for testing.

[Lscott]

7 hours ago, tweiss3 said:

I see there is a plugin for SDR#, you could try to see the difference between both radios, but it will still require you acquire a dPMR446 radio for testing.

I still have one, a Kenwood TK-3701D, on my saved search lists. So far the ones I’ve seen have to be imported. I already have the software.

Now I just have to find one where the seller isn’t asking $200 plus for one. It would be like paying $200 for a CCR FRS radio.

Oh, another very interesting radio forum site for UK, mainly, is:

https://transmission1.net

That’s one I’ve been trolling through for info.

[Lscott]

On 8/27/2024 at 12:34 PM, Lscott said:

1. dPMR446 encodes a "channel ID" code in one of the super frames transmitted, where as dPMR does not. Those channel codes are listed in the standards documentation, which I've been reading, for dPMR446 for each official frequency.

Just an update. I was mistaken. Both use channel codes. However the algorithm used by dPMR doesn’t yield the codes listed in the standard for dPMR446. At least from my reading of the documentation for both. I did some spreadsheets to generate the channel codes based on frequency as shown in the dPMR standard. They don’t match the ones listed in the dPMR446 standard unless I missed something.

The standards document for dPMR446 is

ETSI TS 102 490

While the one for dPMR is

ETSI TS 102 658

ETSI TS 102 658 V2.6.1 (2019-01).pdf ETSI TS 102 490 V1.9.1 (2016-08).pdf