WRHT379
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Posts posted by WRHT379
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On 4/29/2024 at 5:13 PM, WROA496 said:
This may help. I was troubleshooting with buytwowayradios.com today and they send me this pin diagram of the connection with a description of the pins.
Is that for the Mic or the tethering cable?
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10 minutes ago, tweiss3 said:
Reading back through this, I'm not 100% sure you need "simulcast". Do you have significant overlapping coverage of multiple repeaters or do you just have a ton of coverage pockets without overlapping? If the second, you wouldn't need simulcast, just need some version of linking. If you do have overlapping coverage, you would need true simulcast with GPS sync and voting. The RTCM module is only part of the simulcast solution, but it does require IP links.
Another option is new hardware. I can't find a definite answer, but the NXR-1800e has simulcast capabilities baked in (its a license feature), and will permit IP or RF backhaul. Just remember, if you are doing RF backhaul, you must remain within GMRS frequencies, you cannot mix/match the RF link with ham or Part 90 frequencies.
Thanks for the reply, so it has been a learning lesson. We have the mountainous and valley topography. The whole approach is simplex within neighborhoods and neighborhood leaders having access to repeaters, while all will be listening for informational purposes. At the same time if an individual was isolated from other simplex users they could use the repeater near them(here is the barn burner, make it work with HT's). Moving forward. We have grouped communities and allocated frequency pairs to them. Some communities required multiple repeaters to provide coverage in their community because of terrain. So we mimicked calfires approach and have multiple repeaters on the same pair using different input ctcss. So for example we have 4 repeaters in our area , same frequency pair, same output crcss tone, different input ctcss tone. This allows users to use a HT and connect to the nearby repeater and the repeater pushes out there transmission at 40 watts. So whole community area can hear it . So long story short, we have anywhere from 1 repeater to 4 covering an area of 50-100 sq miles . We established a band plan for the county where no frequency pairs are recycled outside of each designated community. This is our attempt to minimize our foot print and our effect on adjacent counties. Also we have other people doing their own thing as well as businesses setting up Family Repeated systems. We are trying to make this work for all. So with a that said. I want to be able to simulcast across the communities that have multiple repeaters on the same frequency and link repeaters that are not( nets , emergencies). I would also like to pick and choose linking/simulcasting any number of repeaters for any givin incident. As for the network(IP) connection We will establish multiple backhauls at each site but the primary one will be our own using 5ghz ubiquitous radios . We will use cellular and internet gateways when ideal and free. Our routers can accommodate multiple WAN's. I am also hoping this will lead to less power output on the repeaters since similcast and links will mean one transmission will be heard across all or a selected few repeaters. The repeaters no longer eill have to "yell" to be heard. Another thing is providing network Access points at locations where neighborhood leaders can connect to from ICP's and possibly residenances . This will provide the most worthy version of communication. I have to run to work. Thanks for your input and i hope i explained myself well.
Tony Goodwin
CRO: Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxiliary Communication Service 707 494-7494
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On 4/23/2024 at 6:14 PM, Gnarlykaw said:
thought i would come back and give an update....
I ended up sending the radio back to BTWR, because i was convinced that the radio HAD a failure. Sure enough, they tested it and found fault in the faceplate. they warranted to unit, and the new one came two days ago. YES, I have a plethora of different length data cables, all shielded, that work PERFECT! The permanent install starts tomorrow...
Although, it appears that CHIRP has NO solid program for this radio, and im having some difficulty with the WOUXUN data cable....
I wanted to note we use Chirp for all our kg-1000g's. They have support for the original and pro version.
Tony
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On 4/27/2024 at 9:06 AM, WROA496 said:
That has to be a power thing. Even on regular CAT5, I don't think you are supposed to have any data loss until you go over 100 meters. (Way longer than the supplied cable). If it's a voltage drop thing, maybe CAT 6 or CAT 7 would help? That's why for POE, to maintain 12vdc at 100 meters, you inject 48vdc and let the device regulate whatever is left at the end of the run down to the needed 12vdc. Given that, if you could identify the power pins, you could (in theory) cut those pins at the head, then inject that voltage on those pins closer to the face to get up to 100 meters.
FYI, I'm not a professional IT guy, so this may work, or you try this and your face plate explodes.
Ok copy that. I understand the 300 ft maximum on network cable. Also i used cat6. Your idea It is worth experimenting with. The head/display @60ft ccame on and was stuck on " reading......" so it had power. Thats what lead me to packet loss verses power. I can also presume power is low and maybe the head cant generate the power to receive or transmit packets. We have 100's of these radios out there.
Tony Goodwin
CRO:.Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxiliary Communication Service
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On 4/27/2024 at 8:36 AM, WROA496 said:
That's also interesting. The manual for the 1000G says to swap pins 2 & 4.
Because I'm visual. I updated my graphic for the correct pinout for the 1000G Plus.
It's a lie, looking at the connector with the locking tab away from you and the end facing up it is the two pins on the right 5 and 7. And you only do it on one end of your patch cable. I remember reading that manual paragraph over and over. I have physical knowledge of this and it works. Disregard the un grounded #2 pin. It works either way. If you use shielded cable then you should see #2 is grounded(at both ends) on your network cable tester.
Tony
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On 4/26/2024 at 8:05 AM, WRHT379 said:
Good day Fellow Enthusiasts,
My name is Tony the Chief Radio officer for Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxillary Communication Service(non agency, volunteers). We have created a 20 plus repated system here using the Motorola SLR5700 series repeater. we have deployed 1000's of radios to neighborhoods and teach resilency and self preservation using GMRS/Amateur/Cup and string/smoke signals/bullhorns you name it we will try it, to communicate. I understand that we have very few GMRS frequenciesto use and we want to be good stewards to our neighboring counties. So i want to simulcast to minimize power output and fequency usage. We also plan to install backbone and redundancy using ubiquitous and LoRa radio. i am asking you good people for advice, reference material and/or experiences in how you have done this. Presently i am looking at using the RTCM thin client or a stand alone RPI. I know my way around a RPI enough to ge tmyself in trouble and would prefer a more plug n play approach. of course money is a big consideration since we are a volunteer group.
i apprecaite you folks for doing what you do providing that redundancyfor your communities
Tony Goodwin
Chief Radio Officer: Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxillary Communication Service
Sonoma County, CA.
I really appreciate the advice and willingness to help from you folks. My vision for Sonoma County is to be an effective means for comms when all else has failed and be a good steward to my neighbors(frequency usage wise). You have givin me a lot of home work and I thank you. I will be in touch.
I have included a couple of web links to our partners.
Tony Goodwin
CRO: Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxiliary Communication Service 707 494-7494
https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/07c0de00fd9f48c183f8cb273aad0706
https://www.wiconduit.org/radio
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54 minutes ago, gortex2 said:
Simulcast and Linked are 2 different things. The SLR is made for linking in DMR not analog. Simulcast would be all transmitters and receivers on the same channel basically not destroying the other frequencies so others can use them. Linking in a close are ties up multiple channels.
For SAR I use Quantars and MLC8000 convertors. You need GPS timing for both boxes but it works very good. Its not cheap to do simulcast correctly. The other thing you may look at is voting first. You may have enough TX coverage but voting receivers would help HT's get into the repeater. My GMRS sites are setup with this. Your SLR can be used for that again with a MLC or other "voter" box. Much cheaper to drop receivers around vs TX stuff.
I think you understand what we are trying to do. It would be a link and simulcast combo. Receives sites for HT's, simulcast to conserve frequency use and linking for big events where we would want to tLk across multiple districts. Thanks for your reply
Tony
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1 hour ago, kidphc said:
Around here (montgomery county maryland). Local municipality set up the radio system properly. Public service network on 800mhz. They could of gone with lesser equipment and use higher gain antenna. But chose to go with a mandate that required 98% coverage of the county with an ht. Yes this included in people's basements and in parking garages.
What they needed up with was a 2 site simulcast system. It is one of the best systems in the country. I have used the harris xg100m and a g5 unification in some absurd locations with the ability to listen to the county radios.
Either case, the state police use part of this system as well as many other agencies. Each pretty much has their own main talkgroup and tac channels. This includes the cert (was react) teams.
But it took a lot of handshakes and negotiating from multiple people to get it the way it is. But as a public safety group you might be able to get the local council, pd, fd and ems onboard to get you some talkgroups and interop group channels. Hell they probably have some old xts2.5/3k/5k. Hell 700/800 Mhz Motorola gear are dirt cheap compared to the vhf/uhf r1 counter pars. Think like $60-80 vs 200-500 for a unit.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Ok. This sounds like the commorodory I am talking about unfortunately our agencies all are send alone and keep everything close to the chest. One really doesn't want to help the other. This is the first time in a long time to see departments starting to talk and want a better system. It could happen and we are considering such a thing each step we take. We are not a selfish group. We want unity. We have to put egos aside. And achieve the awesomeness you folks have. I would like to hear me about your setup.
Tony
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4 hours ago, kidphc said:
If we are discussing simulcast, and lora back bones/ radio.
Why is the group not talking to the local pd. Who probably has simulcast already set up. Old gear that can be repurposed, get potential federal grants and be administered ( really only sounds like you need 1-2 tac groups). As well as the license for the extra frequencies. Probably can be encrypted as well.
Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
Yes, you are in my head. We all now gmrs will probably end up in the trash heap because of all the repeaters and cross talk making it unusable. So solutions for when that happens it what LoRa and other avenues are for. Keeping an open mind on solution that can make this work. We are trying to create a redundant and super resilient system for community members to communicate with each other as well as create a direct line from agency support to the community. We all know people are busy and we have to minimize the impact this may have on their lives so we try to make it approachable. Gmrs is easy to license and allows the use of repeaters. Pretty cool . Of course we have blended amateur(ACS) ,ARES , smoke signals and everything else into the mix to accommodate each community and their way of wanting g to do things. We are here to try and minimize the gmrs jamb up or frequency overlap from other repeaters and users. So we have thought of securing a couple frequencies for this and some how making it license free or easy to get for the public. I will eventually sit down with the FCC and discuss. They have reached out and asked us for solutions to Tubbs, Maui etc.
Tony
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5 hours ago, nokones said:
Tony:
You should consult with the Sonoma County Communications Department. I'm not sure if the Sheriff is still on UHF, I believe their system is still a simulcast system.
Actually we are trying to work with the them but they are stubborn. The whole reason we started NACS was to support the community that wasn't being supported by the Sheriff and other agencies. This movement is for the people. We will always be conscious of our choices and understand there may be consequences but we will not let tcomm get in our way.
Tony
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1 minute ago, WRHT379 said:
Thanks, I did reach out to them. I was pretty disappointed in purchasing vendor when I found out we couldn't link our analog channels. The whole reason we went this route with Motorola was the ease of linking(if only GMRS was digital). Thanks for your feedback
Tony
Oh and they recommended RTCM for our solution.
Tony
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6 hours ago, tweiss3 said:
Simulcast is not cheap. You can "roll your own", still about $1000+/site with https://allstarsimulcast.com/. Note, you cannot link into Allstar/Echolink.
Second option, which is widely commercially available is JPS: https://jps.com/products/snv-12/
I would also suggest you reach out to your Motorola vendor and discuss if there is a Moto solution to simulcast on analog for your chosen hardware.
Thanks, I did reach out to them. I was pretty disappointed in purchasing vendor when I found out we couldn't link our analog channels. The whole reason we went this route with Motorola was the ease of linking(if only GMRS was digital). Thanks for your feedback
Tony
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8 minutes ago, WROA496 said:
Interesting... when I tested both the short and the extension cable.... it looks like they are wired 1-1 through 8-8 (like a standard ethernet cable) with just pins 5 + 7 flipped. I also noticed that on my extension cable, the second pin is shorted. So... it may work (depending on what pin 2 does), but I'm going to reach back to buy2wayradios to see if they can swap it out. (before I go through the suck task of taking apart half the interior of my vehicle to install it).
Yes, pin 2 is grounded in the short cable and I tried it with and without and it made no difference when you make your own cable. The only caveat is cable length. It starts to loose packets/communications when you go longer than the supplied extension cable. We had to learn this one the hard way. I reached out to B2WR and they said there is no solution. We are very bummed. Good luck
Tony
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Good day Fellow Enthusiasts,
My name is Tony the Chief Radio officer for Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxillary Communication Service(non agency, volunteers). We have created a 20 plus repated system here using the Motorola SLR5700 series repeater. we have deployed 1000's of radios to neighborhoods and teach resilency and self preservation using GMRS/Amateur/Cup and string/smoke signals/bullhorns you name it we will try it, to communicate. I understand that we have very few GMRS frequenciesto use and we want to be good stewards to our neighboring counties. So i want to simulcast to minimize power output and fequency usage. We also plan to install backbone and redundancy using ubiquitous and LoRa radio. i am asking you good people for advice, reference material and/or experiences in how you have done this. Presently i am looking at using the RTCM thin client or a stand alone RPI. I know my way around a RPI enough to ge tmyself in trouble and would prefer a more plug n play approach. of course money is a big consideration since we are a volunteer group.
i apprecaite you folks for doing what you do providing that redundancyfor your communities
Tony Goodwin
Chief Radio Officer: Sonoma County Neighborhood Auxillary Communication Service
Sonoma County, CA.
Wouxan KG-1000g plus faceplate data cable
in Technical Discussion
Posted
I agree with Box car , audio, put function, maybe even some can bus protocol or rs285. I am just learning about these different protocols.
Tony