Lscott

I made some contacts on 2 meter sideband. One was between Coldwater MI and Milwaukee WI. The other was between the Detroit area MI and Toronto Canada. Both running 50 watts into a M-Squared loop antenna on the roof of the van I had at the time. https://www.m2inc.com/FG2MHOLOOP

Unfortunately the attitude exhibited by some people doesn’t change until they personally experience the negative consequences of somebody else who feels the rules don’t apply to them. And even then they still might not get it.

A small stick pin in the coax up out of the way and sniped flush works good too.

I was at my Ham Radio coffee break last night. One of the topics for discussion concerned a local CB operator running hugely excessive power. The interference was so bad that a nearby hospital had the FCC track down the source because it was buggering up some of the heart monitors they used on patients causing them to malfunction.

Everyone should encourage compliance with the rules. They're not there for an arbitrary reason. The RF spectrum is a limited resource. The rules are set to try and minimize interference between ALL users of the shared resource. I would encourage you to take a look at the frequency layout for the FRS/GMRS channels, the permitted band widths and power level. What you will immediately notice are the interstitial frequencies lie between the GMRS main channels. In particular the interstitial channels 8 through 14. Those are limited to 0.5 watts and narrow band to minimize interference to the adjacent wide band GMRS repeater input channels. Even at a narrow band width those still overlap the wide band repeater channels. In fact several repeater owners on this forum have commented about interference from FRS radios buggering up things on their systems even with radios that are complaint with the rules. Then there is the issue with dirty radios, the CCR's are the group most likely to be the offenders. If for example one was transmitting on lets say channel 1, 462.55 MHz, the second harmonic would be at 925.15 MHz, right in the middle of the 900 MHz ISM band. https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/compendium/0902.00-0928.00_01MAR14.pdf I had a buddy do the known code plug hack on a cheap Baofeng BF-888S UHF radio to operate on VHF too. It worked. He had a dual band radio that would SIMULTANEOUSLY transmit on the 2M and 70cm band! That ended that experiment quickly. FRS-GMRS Channels Layout.pdf

I'm sure they don't. They're non technical people and the radios are just another tool they use to do their job cleaning up the place. They were likely told you need to contact somebody use this.

Check here and see if any of these might work: http://rsws.zapto.org/RadioSoftware/Kenwood/Kenwood.htm http://www.sm5nvc.se/erak/mod/index.php?path=rig%2Fprg%2FKenwood/ I would suggest you download them and try. Just because it says "KPG70D" doesn't mean it really isn't the version you need. I've run into that several times. Using the software make sure you select the right model. Usually there are multiple to pick from, like TK-8102K, TK-8102M etc. Close won't work. I checked my listings for software version and they all show KPG-70D should work.

That's true. In my case I had to monitor for some weeks to catch them when they use their repeater. It wasn't until I heard the same voice on the licensed mall security frequency on the GMRS repeater frequency several seconds later mentioning the same issue to the mall's house keeping staff I figured out who it was. The next step was looking up the mall's security FCC license info, I had their FCC assigned call sign. Then I used the FCC's "FRN" number for the mall to do a search by FRN for ALL licenses held by the mall in the FCC database. That's when when I saw the expired GMRS license. The detailed info showed the exact frequency they were originally licensed to use, which was the one I heard the activity on. That nailed it. The FCC database is a gold mine of info. But you have to know how to use it.

On the radio side you have basic several choices to make. 1. Do you want a hand held radio? 2. Do you want a mobile only radio, that could also be used as a base? 3. Numbers 1 and 2 above. 4. Do you want a purpose designed GMRS radio? 5. Do you want a used commercial radio, lets say a Motorola, Kenwood or Vertex for example. 6. Do you only want Part 95 certified radios, highly recommended? The prices will vary from under $100 to well over several $100's depending on your choice. Usually the performance is better with the higher price points, but not always. The general opinion is the used commercial radios perform better than the cheaper offerings from the Chinese manufactures. Personally myself I have a rather large collection of commercial Kenwood hand held radios. Another member is a very strong advocate for Motorola gear and won't touch anything else. One thing is for sure, you'll get a lot of opinions one way or the other. One other point, if you are considering getting a Ham license at some point that may change your choice of which radio(s) to get. Some model of radios will allow you to enter NON GMRS frequencies in them, like for the Ham 70cm band. For those radios you can use on both services without requiring two separate radios. One radio I've been using lately, which is Part 90 and 95 certified is the Kenwood TK-3170. The software will allow out of the officially supported band range frequencies so I have both GMRS, and a bunch of Ham 70cm repeaters programmed in to it. The later when entering those frequencies the programming software will generate a warning but accepts the entry when you acknowledge the message. The Kenwood radios I have in my collection that have the required Part 95 certification for GMRS are: TK-370G-1 https://mra-raycom.com/wp-content/uploads/simple-file-list/Specifications/portables/TK-270G-370G-Product-Brochure.pdf TK-3140 type 1 http://rsws.zapto.org/RadioSoftware/Kenwood/tk-2140-3140.pdf TK-3170 type 1 https://www.wirelessvoicedata.com/downloads/kenwood/kenwood-tk-2170-3170-brochure.pdf TK-3173 type 1 http://www.secomwireless.com/KWLIT/LIT_TK-3173.pdf TK-3180 type 1 https://www.ameradio.com/doc/Kenwood_TK-2180_TK-3180.pdf TK-3212 type 1 http://www.deisradio.com/files/TK-2212-3212 Brochure.pdf The commercial radios come in different frequency ranges. Make sure the "type" you are buying covers the frequency range for GMRS, 462 MHz to 467 MHz. Also don't forget for any radio you'll need to get the programming software and cable for it. That's very important for the commercial radios since they can't be programmed from the font panel. Antennas, coax, mounting etc. that is a whole other topic.

This proves how easy it is to make basic antennas that work. Like you said it isn't petty but gets the job done.

This is nearly the same argument made by advocates for using Part 90 only certified radios on GMRS. The core of that position is the spec's are the same or better on the Part 90 radios compared to Part 95. The only different is the paperwork that says they're OK. So far the FCC hasn't formally moved in that direction yet either.

Yeah, a mall by me has a GMRS repeater setup on RPT16, the same channel the local repeater, fortunately using a different tone, I use is on only 6 to 7 miles away with around 80 registered users. Their license expired in 10/2015! They still use it. They way I look at it their choices are as follows. 1. Keep using it. Ignorance is bliss. 2. If the repeater gets "hijacked" by licensed GMRS users, ignore them. (see option 6 why this might be the better choice for the moment) 3. Get a legit business only licensed frequency. Then have their radios reprogrammed, repeater reprogrammed and the duplexer re-tuned to use it. 4. Shut it all down and go away. 5. Switch to using FRS radios instead giving up the repeater. 6. Complain to the FCC about their repeater getting "hijacked" by licensed GMRS users, get shut down by the FCC and pay $10k's in fines for operating illegally without a license for almost 7 years. Then go to option 3, 4 or 5 anyway.

That's why I have a preference for Kenwood gear, not that it's demonstrability better than say Motorola, and I've had rather good luck finding the software for Kenwood commercial radios. So far I have 15 different radio programming suites for them. I just managed to track down the updated firmware for two TK-3170E models I just got a couple of days ago from a private seller in Ireland, that's where the radios came from, at no cost from the customer tech support department of the company that originally programmed them. I also got the latest firmware for the TK-3170K and TK-3180K models from Kenwood tech support in the USA also at no cost. All I had to do was send an email to Kenwood tech support and ask politely along with why I needed it. I've read too many stories about people's dealings with Motorola and the cost for some of the software, entitlement keys etc. As a Ham I can't afford to spend $100 to $250 a pop for software to program one or two Motorola models. I'd rather use the money to buy more radios to play with. There is a reason why I see piles of used Motorola radios at swaps from time to time. I rarely find Kenwood commercial radios. So far I have mostly analog only radios. I have a couple UHF hand-held radios that do analog/digital (NXDN or DMR) and one mobile analog/digital (NXDN).

That makes sense. I think the trouble with the CCR's type radios with the Part 90 certification was due to the radios being front panel programmable. Those are now shipped with that feature locked out requiring the "secret" button presses, passwords or the software to enable it. Now the interesting thing is on the TK-3170, since these seem to be a popular choice for a commercial radio on GMRS, to enable front panel programming the radio requires two things to be done. The first is a diode needs to be removed on an internal circuit board. Second the feature must be enabled in the programming software. If both are not done you can't do front panel programming. There is a warning the radio must NOT be delivered to a customer with the feature enabled in the software. The warning message is curious from the standpoint why is it even there if the radio would loose it's certification? I know these radios are sold in several different markets outside of the US, I just got two of the TK-3170E types from a seller in Ireland, however I would imagine other countries have similar restrictions on front panel programming and certification requirements which makes this even more curious.

I have a Part 95 certified Kenwood TK-3170K, type 1 radio, with no hardware modifications, FCC ID ALH34713110. https://fccid.io/ALH34713110 So if I have a bunch of Ham repeaters loaded into it along with all the GMRS stuff it's no longer certified? All the programming was done through the official software, KPG-101D V2.40, and it wasn't hacked either. The software allows out of the "official" band split frequencies to be entered with a warning message. That's one of the reasons I like the Kenwood line of old analog and some of the newer combo analog/digital radios. I'm licensed for both the GMRS and Ham services by the way for anybody who might be interested. So I have a radio that now operates on both services where neither hardware or software modifications were done. I only did what the hardware and software allowed me to do. Under that interpretation the radio should retain it's certification. The fine line is what exactly does "modification" mean when referring to software? I would say that would be actual changes to the radio's firmware, not just the parameters programmed into it. Otherwise one could argue that simply changing a PL tone setting would be a software modification, which would be a silly.

I considered trying something like this but using a Hex-editor to directly change the frequency entries. I though about getting a super cheap Kenwood "Protalk" radio, the ones that have the fixed business frequencies, and load the modified code plug to the radio. I installed the programming software to experiment with before trying to buy a radio. Looking at the code plug using a Hex-editor I can see the frequencies in it. Some of the radios the frequencies are hard coded in the radio's firmware. Those you likely can't do much or anything to change it. Others the frequencies are only hard coded into the radio programming software. Those you can likely muck around with the raw code plug to bypass the programming software limits provided you can get the code plug to load into the radio. Oh, some of the radios use encryption on the code plugs to prevent people from doing modifications or getting other propriety info out of them, like read/write passwords etc. So, if you don't know how it's done you can't decrypt the code plug, modify it then encrypt it to load into the radio. Some of the later model Kenwood's encrypt the code plug, which included the version of the software used to build it AND the serial number used to install it on the computer when I decrypted a few to look at. Some look like they even save the serial number of the radio in there too. A few of the CCR's look like they also do something that obscures the data too, at least I didn't see anything obvious. For Chirp to read the radio, modify the code plug and write it back requires the developer to reverse engineer the manufacture's code plug structure. The manufactures don't document this of course. Unless one is careful you can easily "brick" a radio by writing junk to the wrong area in memory. If you're lucky you saved a functioning code plug to your computer first so if things go bad you can attempt to recover the radio by writing a known good code plug back in to it.

In Michigan it looks like we have 2586 active licenses.

I don't make any assumptions about license class or region anymore based on the call sign. At one time if you moved to a different region you had to update your call, not anymore. You hear a region 6 call in Michigan, for example, and you might think you got some DX coming from California but its just a guy that lives across town testing out his new QRP rig. 8<(

Not all of the 2x3 call signs belong to Novice or Tech Class licensees.

The TYT-8600 will also "work" as well. However you have to "unlock" the frequency range through the software. It comes by default locked down to just the amateur bands. There is a hidden keyboard command using the programming software to allow changing the TX and RX frequency limits. This is NOT documented. I had to get the procedure directly from TYT. https://www.tyt888.com/?mod=product_show&id=39 There are two FCC ID's for this radio. One is for general Ham use while the other is for a special version just for GMRS. I'm guessing the only real difference is the firmware. POD-GMRS25 POD25W-WP I have one. The RX isn't that good on the radio, selectivity and overload issues. If you live in an area without strong transmitters this radio would likely be OK. Anyway what do you expect from a $130 CCR mobile unit. I wanted something cheap I could throw in a vehicle and plug into the 10 amp accessory outlet. There is a water proof model which would be of interest to off road and trail users for a bit more money. https://store2.rlham.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=72969&osCsid=3m9th4o282aljgm1qrmid3not1

Oh, since you indicated you’re in NE Ohio you might want to try and go to a large regional Ham Radio flea market next month. If you’re looking for new or used equipment you will likely find something there. I typically travel there with some friends up in the Detroit area to the swap. There is a large outdoor market area, and an indoor area where most of the commercial vendors are located. https://www.findlayradioclub.org/hamfest

It’s never to late to get started.

I used a BNC connector since I can find adapters to just about any other connector type. Plus BNC’s are constant impedance types. You can easily find BNC to SMA that screws into the antenna port on handheld radios. I also find heaps of short jumper cables at swaps with BNC connectors on the end. You want your Tech Class license the test is very easy with just a little bit of study.

I have a buddy that wants to put up a Ham 70cm repeater, about the same as a GMRS one but a bit lower in frequency, when the site is ready. He spent over $300 on a USED multi-bay folded dipole antenna for it.

I built almost exactly the same thing using some old PCB type BNC connectors. All the wires were soldered on, no screws. Surprising how well a 1/4 works, and the bandwidth I got was from 430 MHz to 470 MHz at the 2:1 SWR points.