RCM

I'm in a valley with a mountain directly behind me (which limits range in that direction), and my antennas are at approximately 20 feet.

How about instead of your wording "if the radio has been modified" which will get you an answer based on an untruth, be upfront about it and ask "if the radio is operated as delivered from the factory" since you are using the TK-805D as your example. Actually, since you persist in using the term "modification" to describe a factory option set, perhaps you should say, "Did the FCC mistakenly grant Part 95 type acceptance to the TK-805D, or is the type acceptance valid only after the radio has been modified to remove the factory option set?" Because according to the factory service manual, the TK-805D is delivered with the jumper in the FPP position. If moving the jumper constitutes a modification, the radio has FPP unless and until it is modified to remove that feature. I don't recall seeing a notice in the FCC ID lookup to the effect of such modification being a condition of its type acceptance.

And once again, I'll repeat this: "such that operation of the modified transmitter results in a violation of the rules in this part." If it doesn't result in a violation, there's no problem. And the rule about frequency determining circuitry is the current rule for radios newly submitted for Part 95 classification. It does not mention any revocation of existing classification on existing radios. If you read very many FCC rules you will find that they are not afraid of the word revocation; if that's what they meant they would spell it out. A couple more points. First, I think it's incorrect to (at least in the case of the Kenwood radios) refer to enabling FPP as a "modification." It is described in the factory service manual. Therefore it is an option selection; not a modification. Especially in the case of the TK-805D. There are other options that are enabled in a similar manner. The original purchaser could have bought the radio with those options already selected; and in fact the TK-805D was indeed normally supplied with FPP enabled. Last point: this wording "All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure." By a strict definition, this precludes programming via computer. Perhaps this is why new radios from Alinco, Icom, Kenwood, Vertex, Motorola etc. do not carry Part 95 acceptance: they require external programming via computer. So, perhaps indeed the only legal new radios are those el cheapo (in construction, not necessarily purchase price) HTs and mobiles that come with GMRS frequencies permanently programmed and cannot be changed. That's true in practice; maybe it's true by design. Whatever. But I still don't see anything about revocation of type acceptance on pre-existing radios. Bottom line: from the actual rules, if you do something to the radio and then break the rules with it, its former type acceptance is no longer in effect. If the operator knows what he is doing and doesn't break the rules, it's all good. If you use your computer and programming software to add in some public service frequencies and subsequently transmit on them sans authorization, you have voided the type acceptance of your radio and in fact your license to transmit on any radio frequency. Contrary to what some here seem to be claiming ("GMRS is not for the hobbyist or experimenter!"), GMRS is not exclusively for those who know nothing about radios and have no idea how to program them. If that were the case, repeaters and fixed stations would not be allowed. They're not allowed on CB, MURS or FRS.

95.1765 is about frequency accuracy. Again, 95.1761 is the one you're after. By all means though, ask the FCC.

Once again you are misreading the rules in an attempt to support your position. First, there is no 95.1755 rule. I'm pretty sure you meant 95.1761 ( c ) which states: © No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with a frequency capability not listed in §95.1763, unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required. No GMRS transmitter will be certified for use in the GMRS if it is equipped with the capabilities to operate in services that do not require equipment certification, such as the Amateur Radio Service. All frequency determining circuitry (including crystals) and programming controls in each GMRS transmitter must be internal to the transmitter and must not be accessible from the exterior of the transmitter operating panel or from the exterior of the transmitter enclosure. (d) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization for hand-held portable unit transmitter types under both this subpart (GMRS) and subpart B of this part (FRS). (e) Effective December 27, 2017, the Commission will no longer issue a grant of equipment authorization under this subpart (GMRS) for hand-held portable units if such units meet the requirements to be certified under subpart B of this part (FRS). I included ( d ) and ( e ) for clarification. If what you claim were true, there would be no such thing as a radio with dual 90 and 95 certification. It's not true though, because of the wording "unless such transmitter is also certified for use in another radio service for which the frequency is authorized and for which certification is also required." Also note that there is no use of the word "revoked" in the rule. If there were, existing radios that carried Part 95 classification and included FRS would no longer be legal to use on GMRS. That's not the case, though: those can no longer be produced as new radios, but if you have one or more they are still legal to use. If your reasoning were correct, those Midland Micromobiles would be the only mobile radios that are legal to use on GMRS. Wait a minute... do you work for Midland?

Uh... watch the world burn? I'm missing something here.

Actually some Part 95 radios do have FPP. TK-880 is one of them. It must be activated via software and deletion of a zero ohm resistor, but it is described in the factory service manual. TK-805D (also Part 95) is even easier; just pop the top cover and move a jumper. Some other type 95 Kenwoods (and some Motorolas, I've heard) also have this capability. In my opinion, here is why this is ok: you can't program while in operation mode. You have to power down the radio and power it back up with a certain key sequence to get it into programming mode. While in programming mode, the radio is inoperable. When you're finished programming you must power the rig down, then power back up into operating mode. That's the difference: you cannot directly choose the frequency while in operating mode.

I was in the Knoxville, TN area earlier this week and made contacts on a couple of repeaters. It worked great, and I had no problem getting a response.

Great points. I'm in 100% agreement about setting up at your home first to work out the bugs. You might even like it so much that you continue to keep one set up at home, even after setting up another one at a better location. Mine doesn't even have a duplexer; I just use two antennas with enough separation to avoid desense. I'm only running about 12 watts, but my range is approximately 7 miles.

Thanks. I have it sorted out now, though. My 880s now work fine on 70cm as well as GMRS, and I have also performed the hardware mod on all of them and enabled FPP.

Actually it already has. Unless Alinco or Icom steps up to the plate and gets some of their Part 90 equipment certified for 95a, I don't know of anyone making high performance 95a stuff. AFAIK the currently produced Kenwood, Vertex and Motorola are not 95a accepted, and since Motorola now owns Vertex and I'm hearing that they're going to shut them down, no help will be coming from that quarter either.

:lol:

Then why all caps? Do it how you want, but to me all caps looks like someone who thinks it's an acronym. But like I said, just a pet peeve. I hope this doesn't offend you, because that is not my intent.

That's a stretch. Part of your claim might be valid if the transmitter has front-panel selectable power output and the combination of amplifier and the highest front panel selectable power setting results in output power that is over the legal limit. But, here's the thing: the amp the OP is asking about is only rated to 40 watts max, which is within the legal limit. Also my TK-805D is internally adjustable (as are many radios) to 5 watts output. Let's take that in another direction, though. Using the TK-805D as an example again, the factory output setting is 25 watts. It is no problem at all to program the 462 MHz and 467 MHz interstitial frequencies into it. The 462 interstitial freqs have a 5 watt limit. The 467 interstitial freqs have a 0.5 watt limit. So how is this radio Part 95 type classified, since it is easy to break the law with it? The answer is, it is legal as long as it is set up so inadvertent violations cannot occur via pressing the wrong buttons during operation. Now, that does mean the GMRS-V1 specifically might not be legal with the amp, since it has the interstitial freqs programmed into it. That would be exactly the same as programming those frequencies into a mobile radio, even without the addition of an amplifier. But to say that it is a violation to use an amplifier on GMRS is a gross and incorrect oversimplification.

Sounds like a nice setup, Jeff.

If the addition of the amplifier does not result in a violation (e.g. by increasing the output power beyond the legal limit), it does not void type acceptance. Source: 47 CFR 95.337 95.339 likewise states:

I thought you weren't going to broach these subjects here. Are you sure you want to go there?

Welcome to the forum, orionsune. What I do is just find a couple of cheap commercial radios and use one for the receiver and the other for the transmitter. I like to set them up so they can be swapped; for example if the wind blows the antenna down and the transmit radio burns out its finals trying to transmit into it, I can just swap the two radios and fix the antenna. This is a good application for those cheap radios that only have a few (or even just one) channels. You can build a very simple controller circuit for just a few dollars, or buy one for under $100. A duplexer is the most expensive part, but I don't even use one. I just use separate transmit and receive antennas and space them far enough apart so the transmitter doesn't desense the receiver. By doing this and building your own antennas, a complete repeater can cost less than $200. BTW, "ham" is a word, not an acronym. Sorry. Pet peeve.

To clarify, in case anyone missed it: a "fixed station" is a specific type of station that is set up to communicate with another fixed station. The term does not apply to base stations nor repeaters.

Have you seen this? http://www.radio-active.net.au/web3/APRS/Resources/RINO

Morse code ID, most likely from a repeater. Dunno. Have you sent the repeater administrators an email requesting more info? Correct. Yeah, that's pretty normal in most areas.

Welcome to the forum, and to GMRS!

I have a Henry UHF Amp model C25D02, 1-5 watts in, 25 watts out. I've had if for over 20 years; it was given to me by a retired police chief from California. I had never used it because I didn't have a use for it. The tuned center frequency is 464 MHz with a 10 MHz bandwidth. Perfect for GMRS but unusable for 70cm ham radio. So now I have a use for it in my GMRS repeater. I mentioned it in another thread earlier today. It's perfect for my repeater because 5 watts is the minimum specified power setting of the Kenwood TK-805D I'm using as the transmitter. That will raise its duty cycle, although it's not bad at its current setting of 12 watts. The amplifier is rated 50% duty cycle mobile and 100% duty cycle in a repeater, at 25 watts output. I had no documentation on the amp. It is still a current model, so I was able to find some data on it from the Henry website. I decided earlier this evening to email the company and ask about Part 95A type classification, and also asked if I could get a manual. I received an email reply within the hour from Ted S. Henry. He assured me that it is indeed type accepted, and attached a pdf of the manual. Two thumbs up for Henry Radio!

I have a Henry 1-5 watts in, 25 watts out amp. Center freq is 464 MHz and rated bandwidth is 10 MHz. Henry doesn't specify 95a type acceptance, at least on their website. But here is what they do state: "Type acceptance: When used with type-accepted exciters - where applicable." I might end up using it in my repeater. I think I saw a comment on this thread or another one on the site to the effect of there being no point in using an amplifier because most mobiles output at least 25 watts anyway. Well, here's my point in considering its use: duty cycle. The transmitter in my repeater is rated at 25 watts, but only with a 10% transmit duty cycle. This is typical. I'm currently running it at ~12 watts for a higher duty cycle. If I add the amplifier, I could reduce the transmitter power to its minimum of 5 watts while doubling my overall output power. Running that amp at its full rated power is not a problem since Henry rates it at 50% duty cycle in mobile use, and 100 % in repeater use! I believe it too, because its heat sink is nearly 4 times the size of the sink on my 25 watt radios. There's another advantage to running an amp, too: I'm using spatial separation instead of a duplexer. With an amp, I can locate the receiver antenna near the repeater and the transmit antenna farther from the repeater. That means the line loss will be mostly on the transmit side. So I can locate the amp out there near the transmit antenna and just increase the exciter power to compensate for the loss. Kind of a reverse of how the serious VHF/UHF weak signal guys put a preamp at the antenna feedpoint to negate receive line loss.

Once again: §95.1705 (4) (f) (3) A station may be shared only: (i) Without charge; (ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or (iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses. Source: FCC What you're asking is spelled out in that rule. You can form a repeater association or club, with dues going toward the operating expenses of the repeater. No more than that. As the rules state, it must be non-profit. Any dues taken in excess of the operating expenditures would be profit, and therefore illegal.