marcspaz

I would not rule it out. The FAA, ATF and DMV in every state do it all the time.

There are "other" channels between and around the GMRS channels. There is a good possibility you are hearing digital encrypted signals related to emergency services. There is a Firehouse near me with an RF link on 462.000 MHz with a side-channel spur that wipes out channel 19 for miles in every direction.

You must have never had Samoas.

So, I am going to write something super controversial and likely going to spur some conversation... I don't know what the right answer is and don't take this as advice, but I will tell you what I do know I have seen. I know two people that collectively run over a dozen GMRS repeaters and none of them ID on their own. Also, both of them had people file complaints about the repeaters, leading to site visits by the FCC. They both were accused of using non-compliant repeaters and not ID'ing. Both of their systems and sites were found compliant and nothing changed. They still have the same hardware and still don't ID. There are several things in the rules that lead me to believe that there are many people misunderstanding when repeaters must ID on there own. Combined with what I have seen my friends go through, it just reinforces that opinion. Come to think of it... I don't recall ever hearing, first-hand, a repeater ID on it's own. Like, anywhere... ever.

I live and work in the Washington DC Metro area. The type of services I provide are with Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES). Though there are several other types of civilian groups doing similar work. That is the opposite experience I have had. I have actually seen a tighter integration of our team as the day-to-day communications gets more complex, relying more and more on massive underlying infrastructure, such as commercial power and the internet and cellular for most communications. Modern systems are much more susceptible to failure due to the complexity and multiple threads of 'single point of failure'. Amateurs such as myself bring a 100% standalone system that provides portable and mobile communications support for voice, data, video, networking, etc., all over radio. We are heavily engaged with the served agency for training and actual response. Some months we have several training sessions. We may be at an EOC, Hospital, Airport or some combination of all of them, plus shelters, etc. Every two months my team trains with the US Marines on Quantico and several times a year, every year for the last 20+ years, we deploy with Marines, State and/or local police, hospitals, FEMA and the Red Cross, etc. on actual live events. I think we keep getting more and more invites because, while we are aux communications designed for COOP/DR support, we still move traffic while primary systems are up, and on the regular basis the people we serve tell us we are moving more accurate information faster than the Marines, PD, etc. Some of my amateur radio peers also run the Military Auxiliary Radio Service, based out of the Pentagon. Though, I don't. Most of our operations are in the heart of urban areas in and around DC, Northern Virginia and Maryland. However, we do respond to and train in rural and hard to reach areas that present some unique obstacles to overcome. Communications (like cell service and radio coverage) does get a bit spotty in the rural areas, but we specialize in Mass Casualty / Multiple Municipality responses, which almost always occur in cities. This is how I took it... I would think most people would be comfortable with and even welcome a certain level of self-regulation. For lack of a better choice of words, discipline yourself so the world doesn't have to. Nothing wrong with a little social grooming. The best, most agreed upon methods will naturally bubble to the top as time goes on and get incorporated into SOP. I mean, that is literally what we do here every day, is it not?

I work as a volunteer, specializing in emergency 2-way communications, with two county EOC's as well as for the federal government. The repeaters I have can perform VHF/VHF, UHF/UHF, or Crossland (VHF/UHF). They both are capable of analog and P.25 digital, as well as performing as relaying stations. Relaying is fun, stringing the two repeaters together via RF linking, to extend range as far as 2x to 4x the distance as a single repeater. Basically putting the repeaters on the edge of each other's coverage, using them like a huge wifi range extender. Heres a great example. Let's say I am in an area that I only get 4 or 5 miles of coverage mobile to mobile. In the same area I get 15-20 satute miles of coverage from my mobile to the first repeater. The two repeaters can talk to each other from 30-40 statute miles, and then a mobile on the other end can get 15-20 statute miles from the second repeater. I've now extended my mobile range 60 to 80 statute miles on the longest path.

@Radioguy7268 to restate the obvious, is a rule unenforced, really a rule at all?

It's like being at the zoo. Don't feed the monkeys. When you do, they tend to throw more poo at you.

The only language restrictions I am aware of were on Amateur radio, which were lifted 17 years ago (2006). Looking at the old GMRS rules and the LMRS rules, there have never been spoken language restrictions that I can find. There has been a long-standing expectation that GMRS and LMRS operators in the United States use clear and concise language to promote effective communication and prevent interference. In the past, this expectation has been interpreted by some as a requirement to use English, but I believe this was never an official rule or regulation. If anyone has a link to the government website with the previous rule stating English only, I am open to correction, if I am mistaken.

As others have mentioned, codes, hidden messages and transmitting a false or deceptive communication are all rule violations. I think 10-codes are allowed because they are so heavily used, documented and well known that it's not really considered code, but more like shorthand for voice.

@kidphc I went with the VHF high power because there are a few alligator 2m repeaters around me. I normally run a 50w radio and a 300w amp, but 90w-100w gets me into the repeaters that I can hear. The thing that made me switch is, during the summer, I remove the amp so it doesn't get stolen while the roof and doors are off. With the XTL5000, I can leave it installed and not worry about theft... and I'll still have enough power to reach the repeaters. Also, going to run dual heads. Two W7's.

Oh! If you want one antenna that does it all, get the Diamond NR7900a. It is high gain. VHF/UHF power rated 250w/300w respectively, and covers everything we need to do on amateur and GMRS. Probably the best mobile antenna I ever owned. https://www.diamondantenna.net/nr7900a.html

LOL... no doubt. Mostly with getting forgiveness from my wife. LOL

@kidphc, I have a Tram/Browning 1126-b 1/4 wave NMO antenna. It has great SWR for 70cm and GMRS. Rated from 410-490mhz. I just need to find a high-gain antenna that is good for 70cm. I have the MXTA26 which is awesome for GMRS and rated for 120w, but I don't think it's tuned for 70cm. I already have the radios, and next week I will be installing a UHF XTL5000 for GMRS and 70cm, and a VHF XTL5000 for 2m. They both make a measured 110w+. The VHF unit has a pre-amp, too.

@WQWX838, Sounds like a nice collection! Honestly, I have 3 repeaters (1 fixed and 2 portable). Not only are they closed systems, they are not even on all the time. Only when I plan to use them. The rest of the time, they are off. My fix repeater only covers about a 10 mile radius, anyway. So, I use a friends repeater that covers a 40 mile radius and really would only turn mine on if his was down.

I am confused here. Are you saying you need your own personal, portable repeater? Or are you saying you want to use someone else's repeater, along with simplex use?

I giggled at this one. Replace girlfriend with wife and this describes about 12 to 15 of my weekends every year. LOL

It looks like you are trying to use the Carlson Rule. Carson’s Rule is an estimation of the maximum bandwidth. The bandwidth will be proportionate with the audio signal amplitude, but with a maximum bandwidth estimated by Carson’s Rule, the bandwidth would be 2(5 kHz + 3 kHz) = 16KHz, not 15KHz. Unfortunately, on the VHF amateur bands, channel spacing is 15KHz across most of the country. This leads to a lot of bleed-over when there are conversations happening on adjacent channels. There are about 10 states that use 20KHz, which is better. UHF is 12.5KHz for NFM and 25KHz for FM on the amateur bands and GMRS, which is a bit more comfortable with regard to prevent/avoiding interference.

The antenna will be fine... fair price. I would buy an authentic MXT400 v2 (or newer) over the 115 because if you are going to be talking to repeaters, programming the repeater channels to operate wide band will ensure your audio levels are proper and there will be less noise in your signal. Wouxun KG905g would be my recommendation. The S88g is great, too, but after taxes and shipping it may be over $150.

Man, a 300 foot hill is pretty much going to be a no-go unless you put the repeater on the top of the hill. Here is a visual of what a 328' of blocking terrain looks like. I would not be very optimistic at this point.

Man, you have no idea who you're talking to. LOL. I'm independently wealthy. I have owned my own business for decades. I have a wife, kids, grand kids that I love and spend a bunch of time with. Along with a decades of studies in my field, I spent 7 years studying Constitutional Law and the founding and framing of the US. I have dabbled in politics, contributing to State level legislation. I have been an engineer since 1984 and have more licenses and certifications than I know what to do with, including two new certifications in the last 2 months. As an independent consultant, I have 13 years supporting the Department of Homeland Security; another 10 years supporting DoJ as well as DoD and I am currently an engineer working at the Pentagon. I love long-range shooting, have participated in professional level auto racing, 4-wheeling and I have been playing radio for 35 years, including being a licensed Amateur for 2 decades. Oh! I almost forgot, I started ground school recently and I am working on getting my private pilot license. I feel like my range of knowledge, understanding and experience are fairly vast. Though, I guess I can still do more (shrug). Just a quick reminder, you are the one who's very first post in this thread was bringing BS from "the other thread". I am just playing by your rules. See below... Yeah, about that... you're still very, very wrong about s-meter calibration and it's roots. SMDH. Saying the wrong thing over and over again doesn't make it right. I'm missing how it's dishonest to recognize the confusion of the original title (something you pointed out, I may add) correcting it and then literally making a note of what I corrected and why. I really do hope you are done posting in this thread, though. All you are doing is reaffirming your lack of knowledge and derailing a thread that was actually helpful. It's a train wreck now. With any luck, Rich will clean this thread up and lock it.

I changed the title because, as you pointed out, the title was a bit misleading. You made a valid point to which I conceded, yet you act like an ass. Stay in your lane son... the same guy who said "one s-unit is when human ear can tell the difference between levels of AM signal" has no business criticizing anyone else's understanding of technology. Updated Thread and Section titles for clarification for "Some People" to parse the information easier.

QFT! If I may add on to this (not directed to you), I am going to play both sides of this debate. The purpose of the Amateur Radio Service (also known as "ham" radio) in the United States is to provide a hobby and public service for individuals who are interested in radio communication and electronics experimentation. The purpose of GMRS is for short-distance two-way communications of licensees and their immediate family, for business or pleasure. Based on the definitions provided by the FCC, the idea that GMRS is exclusively utilitarian is not an accurate, in my opinion. There is overlap because of the interest in radio communications, even though GMRS is so much more restricted in use of hardware, power and range. I think OP is leaning more toward operating etiquette. I could be wrong. I like the idea of community members volunteering to make an orientation video and I like the idea of new people wanting to learn and having it as a resource. It just needs to focus on things specific to rules, technology and equipment to help people on getting started; not opinions about behavior, use, etc. While I occasionally violate this myself, I believe we should speak in plain English and if you are on a wide coverage area repeater, it's not a great idea to talk for hours. I recommend against tying up the repeater and radio waves for 2,000 sq miles or more for hours a day, several days a week, is kind of greedy. That said, it's up to the operator to decide what lingo, habits, and method they use on the service. As mentioned, the purpose of GMRS is for short-distance two-way communications to ease the activities of licensees and their immediate family. If that means rag-chewing, that is up to the operators involved. It's not really up to any one of us to tell anyone else how to use their radio/license. As far as repeaters go, the owner doesn't own the airwaves, but they own the hardware and can set the rules for sharing, if they want to share at all.

@WQWX838 I agree. I really think that it's in everyone's best interest to speak plainly. Unfortunately I hear a lot of lingo from Ham and firsr responders on the repeaters in the DC metro area. Many Hams use GMRS like its amateur radio, to the point where one of my friends revoked permission from a bunch of people on his repeater.

In that map, the two radios would need to be inside both respective circles. If you are going to have either a permanent base station or a portable/temporary base station at a camp, you would be much better served with a 5w-10w mobile used as a base station, and a portable mast with a high-gain antenna on it. This will increase your range due to the base antenna being higher and the gain from the antenna helps with transmit power and receive sensitivity. Below are a couple of my portable antenna's for example.