Savage
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Posts posted by Savage
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Alright - I have everything but the cable (and lightning protection components)...
I know there's probably variables preventing a straight answer, but thinking about this, there's a lot of simplicity (and probably more safety, for me) mounting this Tram antenna in my attic.
The question being, is the extra effort, etc. worth mounting on the exterior? Will there be a noticeable difference in performance?
Just to give a view, and don't laugh because the screenshot is from some landscaping software I use, but I've marked the two locations in this graphic. One is mounted to the fascia board and the other is just inside the wall, in the attic, about 5' lower than it would be on the fascia. The radio will be in the room directly below this.
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Never hurts to throw in an extra plug, especially for people new to GMRS, or radio in general. And, they have been frequently recommended over the past several years.
In typical newb fashion, I already bought a radio (TK8360H), cable and the software, but I've now saved this seller for future use. Appreciate all of the recommendations on this seller.
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How does the kenwood tk-8360H compare to the TK-8180?
I ask because most of the 8180's on ebay look pretty beat. The 8360 is a little more money but they seem to be in better shape.
Any opinion on whether this is a good deal or better to buy a radio only and the accessories separately?
or
Or neither?
Then I need software and cable... would have to figure that out.
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The more I look at this the more I think it's probably not a big deal to drive a grounding rod in. I can dig past the gas pipe and since that's beyond all of the utility service entrances, all I have to avoid is that gas pipe, water and low voltage wire.
Looks like Home Depot has a 5/8" rod, clamps and 8 gauge copper wire (can the ground be open (i.e. without the plastic covering?).
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A grounding rod is solid copper, probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch diameter. I would not use h=just any copper pipe. You have no idea how well grounded it is and what you might do to equipment at the other end if you do have a lightning strike. That is why the cold water service entrance is often used... it goes back to the main. A grounding rod would usually poe located directly adjacent to the house and the shortest practical wire run from there antenna.
You might also wish to take a look at the electrical service entrance to your house, where the meter is located. There is almost certainly a ground there. It should be bonded to the electrical ground wiring in your house. It will also be bonded to the neutral wire in the breaker panel or fuse box. But, don't get involved with that. If there isn't a ground, either you missed it, or you need to call an electrician.
Thanks for all of the input - the electrical panel is on the side of the house so perhaps I'm back to doing it there since whether I use a rod or panel, those options only exist on this particular side of the house unless I want to do a longer run from the opposite side of the house but that means a much longer coax cable (and greater visibility of the antenna).
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It would most likely have been a cold water pipe, probably the entry to the house, or a copper rod driven into the ground. 8 feet is a common length for a grounding rod, but some are longer. If there was a rod, you'd probably remember trying to get it out. It would not have been easy.
Ah yes, there's some copper coming out of the garage and into the ground and this seems to be jogging my fuzzy memory (I think you're right). One thing I do know is I did not pull out anything deep. I think that copper actually ends up as PVC to my garden. Is that copper pipe a feasible grounding point?
There's also a gas line and that runs in that same small channel to my pool heater so if I ended up needing to drive something into the dirt, I'd have to dig and make sure I avoid everything I've run there.
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Not that it will not matter much in your case with an attic location, but, stucco is usually applies over a chickenwire or other metal mesh base. So, while the thin layer of stucco will have minimal effect of RF transmission/reception, the chickenwire might.
Didn't even think about that - it's definitely on top of a metal mesh.
If I can get convinced of the grounding safety I'll just place it on the exterior.
I don't have it anymore (cut the cord), but when I had satellite TV, I think their ground looked something like 12 gauge wire down to the side yard but I can't recall whether they had it attached to the metal gas pipe (thinking about it, wouldn't that be a bad idea?) or if I removed a post hammered into the dirt when I took everything out.
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It IS a compromise, no doubt. How much of a compromise depends on what you have going on, construction wise. If you have a metal roof, or radiant barrier insulation (foil is a dead giveaway), it's less feasible, as that will block a lot of the signal.
If it's more basic wood/tar paper/comp shingles, it's less of an issue, and the fact that I have solar panels toward the front and back of the house from where the antenna sits hasn't seemed to be an issue, and not having to worry about weather overall has seemed worth the trade so far.
I'm in a wood framed, asphalt shingle house so no stone or brick although the exterior does have stucco. In the end, if the attic really isn't a deterrent for lightning strikes there's probably no sense in me putting it there but as usual, the opinions are all over the place.
The attic is a compromise usually done to thwart the HOA police. There is one rule for radio overage area -- height. The higher your antenna is above ground the greater the coverage area. There are additional rules about antenna height but, generally, 20 feet above the structure they are mounted on.
We have an HOA but it's a skeleton HOA (houses from the late 60's) and they really only keep up the club/pool/tennis courts and do no enforcements of any of the minimal rules that nobody has probably read in 30 years.
That said, I'm not going to get anywhere near 20 feet in fact I'm planning on screwing it into the fascia board (I think there's another name for it - the wood that frames the eaves) so it will be about 5' above the crest (unless I go with the attic). I figure that's better than an antenna sitting in the room with me.
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connector wise: the ad shows it with a standard uhf female (so-239) connector which will be the same as what's on your radio. the matching cable will be uhf male (pl-259) which is fairly common. having an idea of the length needed before you buy is best; it's minor, but every connection loses a little bit of power. (good example with pictures here)
one other consideration with mounting outside is lightning protection...some people choose not to. being mostly plastic/fiberglass does reduce the chances of getting hit, but not eliminate; disconnecting when there's lightning around is cheap insurance. here is a bit i was able to gather off of the web, but hopefully those with more knowledge than i will chime in.
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/1828-antenna-grounding/?hl=lightning
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/60-proper-antenna-grounding/
i've avoided the issue with my current setup by parking a smaller antenna in a corner of the attic (midland 5/8 wave, mag mounted to a chunk of sheet metal for ground plane). the tram/browning 5/8 over 5/8 would be more gain, but won't fit the current space it's hiding in. i'm throwing a bit more power at it, but it works well enough to reach a repeater a little over 60 miles away on high power, reasonably clear.
Now we’re well over my head and reading some of the info at the arrl.org link has me thinking this is too complicated. The fortunate thing is I’m in Southern California (fortunate... for the weather) and we rarely have lightning at all.
Question about the attic - I probably have enough headroom to stand this up in the attic. Is the attic perhaps a better option, similar to what you’ve done? is the attic a compromise?
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in either case, some height will definitely help. another option to look into are the ed fong antennas...as far as i know, they'll fall between the base ones you linked and the mobile i linked in size, and they're a bit less expensive than all of the above. they may also score a little better on the wife approval scale.
i remember there being at least a couple members on the site with experience with them, too.
edit: some links.
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2076-newb-questions-about-gmrs-roof-antenna/?p=18186
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2070-looking-at-two-antennas/?do=findComment&comment=18141
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2034-rollup-slim-jim-antenna/?hl=fong
I found the Tram for a really good price so bought it. Since I pretty much know nothing about the connectors and such other than what you've mentioned I'll wait until it arrives and I am certain about the mounting spot before I grab the rest of what I need. Looking around the house, I think the peak on the back of the house might be a better place so it's not visible at all from the street whereas on the side it will have some visibility at certain angles and at the back, it's still not that far from the room.
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Those are definitely bigger and likely better, honestly. The main trade-off is versatility, as they're dedicated base antennas, while what I posted is really a mobile that adapts well to a base use too.
If you can go with a dedicated base antenna and don't need the option of using it as a mobile too, I absolutely would. (I've been eyeing that team for a bit myself)
Admittedly, I was hoping you were going to say the other is better, since it’s less costly.
the place I can mount is almost 16’ up so I won’t be moving the antenna back and forth.
Alright, I guess I need to grab one of those, 25’ or so of cable and drill some holes. My wife is going to love this, though she ought to be used to it after all these years.
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My thought would be a 5/8 over 5/8 nmo mobile antenna with a right angle mount....this gives some gain, with the ability to be used for base or mobile, such as this:https://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-bb4505cn-5691
For mount/cable, something like this may work, though getting the terminal and mount separately may be better to run better/longer cable, If the premade lengths aren't enough. https://www.amazon.com/Bracket-Fender-PL-259-Connector-RG-58U/dp/B072XB5H4H/ (I searched "nmo mount", and all the options I mention are on the first page of results)
That would certainly be easy to install.
would you recommend that over these? Keeping in mind I know nothing of antennas, they just seem... bigger.
https://shop.mygmrs.com/collections/antennas/products/tram-1486-uhf-fiberglass-base-antenna
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Alright - any advise on an antenna and cable for a base station? The peak of my roof is almost right above the room I'll put the radio so I have an easy mounting point where I can screw into wood with a bracket and run the cable through the attic, out the vent to the antenna.
I'm not looking to break the bank on this - if I find myself addicted to radio I can always upgrade later plus I'll just be using the MXT115 for now (power supply will be here next week).
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Re-read the message.
Everyone can hear you if no tone is set. Everyone can hear you if a tone is set.
You just won't hear anyone unless they have the matching tone set.
Clear as mud aint it?
LOL, exactly. Lemme try again.
If using channel 15 (462.55) without either type of code, I'll hear everyone communicating on ch 15 whether they're using a code or not.
If using channel 15 (462.55) with DCS code 25, I'll hear only others on the same channel using DCS code 25. Others using ch 15 without a code or if using ch15 with the same code will also hear the communications.
Swing and a miss or I got it?
- wayoverthere and kidphc
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No, the tone is a form of squelch. They are all a filter of sorts. if you set a tone for receive, it will only hear transmissions that have that tone.
Kinda, like your name is say Mike. Everyone in the room is screaming names. You can only hear anything that precedes with "Mike!'. Although everyone is scream you can't hear them. Since you are ignoring everyone else, you want to remove this filter/tone when using the channel normally.
Gotcha - so if using channel 15 (462.55) without either type of code, you will only hear those on that channel who also are using no code? And for example, if using channel 15 (462.55) with DCS code 25, you will hear only those communicating on that same channel using that same code?
That makes a lot more sense to me if that's right.
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Just make sure to clear the tone before using that channel. Otherwise you won't be able to tell if someone was on it and talk over them.
I want to make sure I understand this correctly. If understood something I read, when on a channel without any code, you can hear chatter from everyone using that channel even if they're using codes. Is that right?
If that's right, is what you're saying to clear the code before using that channel for communications to make sure others aren't using the channel (without a code), otherwise I'd be talking over them?
Something about that doesn't seem right... please clue me in.
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You could just turn on a tone for the particular channel. It would not open the squelch unless the transmission had the same tone.
Just make sure to clear the tone before using that channel. Otherwise you won't be able to tell if someone was on it and talk over them.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Well, there's my learnin' for the day! Thank you very much.
I would be happy to actually hear chatter. In my area I hear virtually nothing, with the exception of some business use on occasion on FRS. One night I did hear a man ranting by himself, spouting profanities, etc., for hours. I was able to figure out who he was and where he lived based on an FCC search. I called him by name at one point hoping he would stop, but he didn't. I switched off the radio.
LOL - I've heard some solo ranting too but I think it was one of the two same guys.
Kidphc's suggestion is a good one, as that will let the tone filter out anything without the selected tone, since I don't believe the gxt have a "skip" option. That said I don't remember it giving any onscreen icon for tones being enabled, so you'll have to remember it's set of you want to use that channel.
A scan skip is an option on many other radios, though..I have a couple public safety channels programmed in my 50x1 that are almost nonstop traffic, so I'd never hear anything else if I didn't skip those. The setting can also be changed (on or off) in the menu. I think the wouxun has the skip option as well, but I don't remember if it was in the radio or in the software.
Thank you for the info.
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I'll try not to be a COMPLETELY typical newb... but, taking the advice of posts on this forum, I'm doing "a lot of listening" with the handheld (GXT1000) to hear what's happening on the air. There's not a lot going on but two channels do have traffic with one of them fairly often with the two same guys.
They talk about a lot of stuff, for example, Betty Crocker cake mix, chit chat during baseball games, some random humming and singing into the radio, misc. cursing and talks about "people" plus some politics.
Sometimes it's not exactly family friendly (from my perspective)... all this is to say, it really puts a dent in my scanning channels because this channel is where it stops much of the time.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... how do you all handle this? Are "better" radios that have software to control them capable of turning some channels off from scanning? Is the Midland capable and I just haven't found the instructions to do it?
Do I need to just get over it and every time it hits that channel, press a button to rescan until it comes back to that channel, rinse and repeat?
I've read the FCC guidelines by the way so I understand that they're not exactly following it but understand the practicality of radio use, I don't plan on being the GMRS police or disruptive to their use of the channel and particularly, don't plan on being "that newb."
Looking for frank advice and if "get over it and press the freaking button" is the answer, I'll probably just do less scanning and get over it.
Thanks peeps.
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Look at the data sheet on the Meanwell. It specifically states radio as a use so it has all the filtering needed. Pay attention to the maximum ripple and the stated output over temperature and input power range. You won't find a better one anywhere near that price range. (If some other supply has specs that match or come close, you can bet its a repackaged one.)
All Greek to me but I went ahead and ordered it. Now... an antenna and cable. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... and of course another thread already has me wanting to try a Kenwood TK-8180 and I haven't even put power to my Midland.
I'm rationalizing though - the Midland could go in my wife's car.
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I'm very much a power dummy... so I'd grab that PSU and (figure out where) attach this to it? I'm wanting to keep the wiring intact on the Midland so I can still easily throw it in my car and use aux power.
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This is rather easy, Look for a way to route the wire from inside of the house to the outside (usually done through an eve or a vent) then what I did was mount the antenna to a vent pipe that stuck out of the roof. You could use zip ties as a temporary hold, or do what I did and buy 6" hose clamps from home depot. Thats rather easy.
As for the power supply, you want something that will supply at least 12-13VDC and 15-20 amps. It is recommended to use a radio power supply as it prevents noise from getting into your signal however I've had no issues with using a general PS.
Thanks for the info. Which general PS are you using?
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Here's a couple key pieces on this topic.
Power
Neither one. I would put that into this: https://www.trcelectronics.com/View/Mean-Well/ENP-180-12.shtml It's a true commercial power supply that should handle a 50W radio without straining,
Adapter to connect power to the Midland
If his is anything like mine, it came with a 12v plug already attached. However, 12v receptacles are pretty easy to source (the second is what I used, but paired with a powerpole connector for my power supply)
https://www.walmart.com/ip/12V-Cigarette-Lighter-Socket-Power-Outlet-Receptacle-for-Car-Boat-Marine-Motorcycle-Scooter-with-Wire-Fuse-DIY-Kit/212423496
https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GC018-Adapter-Socket-Terminal/dp/B00G8WLW2Y/ -
After posting about how to do an install of a mobile (Midland MXT115) in a car I realized that I'm so new to this that I should wait to do any hole cutting and cable running in my car, particularly since I spend about 30 minutes every week in it now with covid era work from home, and setup the radio in my house.
https://forums.mygmrs.com/topic/2103-installationmounting-in-vehicle/
Some great information in the previous thread on the power supply, etc... and now I'm wondering about running antenna cable from the room to the roof, what antenna, etc. so am starting a new thread as suggested.
Here we go...
Using a mobile radio as a base station
in General Discussion
Posted
Thanks guys, I'm convinced and will mount externally.
When you say "properly protect" are you referring to grounding? What I plan on doing (and please help me if this is not good...) is putting one of these inline (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYK5TU5/?coliid=I1N5MV9ORTQK7L&colid=WG94VUDFRLCV&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) and getting a grounding rod and wire to ground. Really wish I didn't need to do this though. Without the grounding wire on the side of the house, this would be clean straight from the antenna and into the attic vent, down into the room.