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WRAM370

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Everything posted by WRAM370

  1. This is true…in many cases. However, as stated earlier, the band plans do vary locally. As an example of this, many years ago, I had a group of ham radio friends that operated simplex FM on 146.400. That frequency was designated as a simplex frequency in our coordinated band plan. It also appears on modern amateur transceivers with no pre-configured offset, nor does any other frequency offset to 146.400. At some point, we received emails from Riley Hollingsworth, who was the legal counsel for the FCC at the time. Hollingsworth stated in the email that he had received complaints regarding interference to a repeater over 160 miles south of us, in another state, and asked that we contact him, in order to get more information in the matter. Each of us talked to Hollingsworth, and explained how we used the frequency (simplex FM operation, either mobile or base, how much power, antennas used, etc.) The issue at hand was this…the repeater to our south had numerous input sites, and one of those inputs was about 90 miles away, on a tall tower, and the repeater had no PL tone on it. Further, the output of the repeater was on 147.000, and the input was on 146.400, the simplex frequency in our region. When Hollingsworth told us of the issue, he asked we do some testing, and we did tests and found that a 5 watt HT signal from a third floor apartment in an urban area, 90+ miles away, could hit this input with mild band enhancement. Now if you take your modern amateur 2m transceiver and look at the “automatic repeater shift” setting for 147.000, you will find it will indicate a “+” (positive) offset. However, the repeater in question used a negative offset, putting the input on a designated simplex frequency in our coordinating region. I recall mentioning this to Hollingsworth during our phone call, stating that my FCC approved equipment puts me on simplex on 146.400, and that the input to 147.000 would be 147.600 on my Yaesu radio. Upon completion of his investigation, Hollingsworth told us that we were operating correctly and to continue doing what we were doing. We were operating correctly and in compliance. The repeater owner had been told many times to tone the input to the repeater, as he had filed other complaints with the FCC regarding the same matter. The FCC determined it was unreasonable for a high profile repeater to operate in this manner, when in fact, all FCC approved gear will indicate a positive offset for 147.000, and tone access has been an established convention for nearly two decades at this point in time. The repeater owner had been advised to tone his repeater several times by the FCC, but refused to do so. So here is a case where the band plan in one location was different from that in a neighboring state, as conceived by “coordination councils”, and the typical ham transceiver would have a different repeater shift from what was in use. And to put the cherry on top, we contacted the coordinating councils in the two regions about this matter while the FCC was doing it’s investigation, and both council bodies responded with “you are wrong. You can’t interfere with a repeater, so you must change frequency”. These “councils” were, in fact, wrong, and went away with their tails between their legs when presented with the findings from the FCC. it is always best to understand the rules of amateur radio, and the conventions of operation within your region, so that you have the FCC on your side, and you can educate arrogant hams who “think” they know what they are talking about.
  2. Since this discussion is continuing, I will repeat myself from the previous discussion on hams using GMRS. I think it demonstrates that the amateur radio service is not providing the “service” it should be, to the community at large, in 2023. Many ham radio test questions are out of date or antiquated. They have no real purpose to the users who are entering ham radio, and these questions and tests only serve as a barrier. Some will say they want that barrier to exist, to keep out the unwanted, just as they did with the morse code requirement. To those hams, I say ‘get over it’. The days of most hams being aerospace engineers and having pocket protectors are long gone. Like it or not, we live in the here and now, and it is a “new normal”. It may not be better, but it is new. I thought there was a proposal in recent years to offer an entry level test of 5 questions, to give privileges on 70cm. That would be a step in the right direction for ham radio. What happened to that??? That is exactly what needs to be offered for entry level hams who only want to use an HT or mobile FM radio, with privileges only on 70cm FM frequencies. Give them privileges on 2m FM as well ! And in all reality, why do we even need test questions for those privileges, when it is basically the same as GMRS ? What do you need to know? You have a requirement to ID every so often, and you have to stay on these particular frequencies, and you would be limited to 50 watts TPO. No need to see if the applicant can recognize a resistor or a diode on a schematic. Who can do that today, with SMD components in everything? -/\/\/\/- is futile
  3. Sorry to stray from the OP’s post, but this is of interest to me, and may or may not speak to the OP’s question. I changed the status of my repeater after receiving requests from people who were nowhere near it’s very limited coverage area. It just became pointless for me to offer access when the majority of requests were obviously not going to hit it, and many of these people were looking for repeaters with activity for the purposes of “conversation”. There are several open repeaters in my region that cover 50+ miles, and since the lowering of the licensing fee, these repeaters are occupied by hams and CB’ers, who have moved their lengthy and pointless conversations onto the extremely limited GMRS channels. Some of these conversations run for hours throughout the day, as these people are often retired or unemployed, and due to the large footprint of the repeater, make that particular frequency pair unavailable for others to use. I think this is inconsiderate, when the amateur radio service exists for this very intended purpose. You mentioned hams have other places to go, as do CB operators, but in my region, they have flocked to GMRS. Of these high profile repeaters that exist in my region, I have heard practically NO family communications on these wide footprint repeaters, because they are occupied by older men who sit around and BS for hours, as if they are sitting at the corner bar. I can tell you that any reasonable parent would probably not want to use these repeaters with their children, for many reasons. Your desire to have GMRS activity take priority over ham-type activity is understandable. I don’t know if that can be accomplished anymore, since the FCC lowered the fee, and the Chinese are cranking out inexpensive radios.
  4. There is a lot to working with commercial radios, if you want to program them yourself. It is not like the amateur/GMRS radios with simple programming software, that is nearly plug-n-play. Some models of commercial radios were set up for analog trunking systems, and as such require some odd ways to program them for traditional ham/GMRS use. These radios, such as the Kenwood TK-840, have System and Group functions, so they require a slightly different approach to programming, if you want to put a bunch of GMRS channels in and scan them. Keep in mind that a lot of older radios were from the days of computers running DOS, and the programming software for those older radios need to be run in DOS, and the communications speeds of the serial ports needs to be slow. There are YT videos of people successfully running the older programming software in DOSBox, but I have never had luck with that ( and I didn’t need to spend a lot of time on it, because I have other options). Some software may work in Windows OS, but they may only like up to Windows 98. Newer radio programming software is generally compatible with Win 10. Also note that Motorola is very particular about protecting their programming software, and the official channel to obtain that software can cost you an additional $200-300 (I don’t recall the exact price, but it is up there). I believe Kenwood has recently adopted a licensing scheme as well, for their commercial programming software. As mentioned, you want to take note of the band split of a particular radio. Most commercial radios are tuned to a specific portion of the band, and could not work for your needs unless you are skilled and equipped to do alignments on radios. And even then, some components may require replacement. And many newer (post 2013) radios commercial radios will only do narrow band, unless you purchase an unlock key to allow wide band programming. That generally means spending additional money, or going through the process of Motorola indoctrination. If you want to run commercial radios on GMRS, and don’t have a bench full of electronics test gear and a stack of old computers, you are probably better off with a company such as Used-Radios.com. If you are a general appliance operator on GMRS or amateur radio, you probably want to buy something off the shelf from Midland or Wouxan. If you are a glutton for punishment, by all means buy used radio gear, learn to program and align it yourself, and then realize there is no market for this stuff anymore, thanks to the good folks in China that have flooded the market with inexpensive radios.
  5. FYI, the Kenwood TK-805D can be programmed without a computer, which is convenient. Generally an online search will find how that is accomplished.
  6. It can be a “plug and play” if your repeater has an interface to plug an external controller into it. Check out Hamgadgets ID-O-Matic controllers, as an example. Most repeaters have a “controller”, which does a number of things. Primarily, it will respond to a signal coming into the receive section of the repeater, and then turn on the transmit side of the repeater to send out the received signal. The controller can also be programmed to determine the maximum length of time the transmitter section will be allowed to transmit (via a time out timer) to prevent the transmitter from running constantly, in the event something happens to the transmitter. The controller may also have an ID morse code (or voice recorded) generator, which is programmed for the callsign and the interval time it will identify. In GMRS, the ID interval is 15 minutes. As mentioned above, some controllers (or just a stand alone ID’er) can be programmed to ID once the repeater in engaged, and then every 15 minutes (or whatever the requirement may be for that application), until people stop using it. After the last transmission, the repeater will then ID one last time at the determined interval, and then sit quietly until keyed up again later. Some controllers are not this smart, and can only ID every XX minutes, all day and night, regardless of whether the repeater is used or not. This would be annoying in my opinion. GMRS is a shared service, so we may want to only have our radios/repeaters transmitting when actually being used, and quiet the rest of the time. The Hamgadgets ID-O-Matic is an inexpensive controller, that offers a few options. You can program it yourself if you can follow instructions, or pay the man to program it for you. He offers cables that will allow a “plug and play” option for users, if they have the repeaters/radios that are listed on his site. Otherwise you would have to make the necessary connections to the internal components of the repeater yourself. I know Hamgadgets offers prewired controller cables for some Motorola radios/repeaters, and there are some Chinese models as well IIRC. I am not endorsing the ID-O-Matic, I am only pointing out that they may be something for you to look at and get more info.
  7.  So perhaps we can all agree that hams and CB’ers are looking at GMRS so they have someone to talk to, and in particular, because they can utilize repeaters to accomplish that goal. The repeater is the primary attraction in this movement towards GMRS. So, with trying to stay on topic to the OP’s original question, I suggest that amateur radio is missing the mark, by not providing the experience for many people who are, or would be, active on radio, where GMRS is providing a resource for these people, but it is my belief that GMRS is not the appropriate venue for this particular activity, due to it’s very limited bandwidth and shared FRS activity. GMRS should be short distance, brief messages that convey information that is of interest to a family or immediate group of licensed people. Amateur radio is for longer distance conversations that include people not related to one another, who enjoy participating in long-winded ragchews. I know the dozens of amateur repeaters in my region sit idle for days/weeks. Unused bandwidth on 2m and 70cm, and from your comments, it is true in your region as well. While the 8 repeater channels available are being used by CBer’s and ex-patriot hams. It is just ridiculous for amateur radio to continue to hold onto old conventions that are literally causing it to lose participants, when we can clearly see the activity interest in GMRS increase, as ham radio interest decreases. And again, it is primarily related to repeater access on GMRS, so here is the simple solution… 1) Eliminate the testing requirement for an entry level amateur radio license. 2) Establish a license class that authorizes use of 2m and 70cm FM simplex and repeater access available for the price of admission ($35). 3) Allow up to 50 watts of transmitter output power (HT and mobile radio operation). This is basically the same as GMRS (with the exception of the VHF access), and if GMRS does not require a license holder to demonstrate any knowledge of operation, than neither should amateur radio, for the same basic operating privileges. Beyond the requirement to identify your station every 10 minutes on the amateur bands, I don’t think there is anything else that a user of 2m or 70cm would need to know, relating to Part 97. Should one want to further their involvement in amateur radio, then the usual process of testing can be followed, to permit the use of higher transmitter power, additional bands and modes of operation. But for amateur radio to try to have a gatekeeper in place for access to some VHF and UHF spectrum, in the form of a 35 question test, is archaic and useless at this point. And it is only destroying the General Mobile Radio Service in the process. And for the hams that would scream that this idea would destroy amateur radio…as a GMRS user, I am trying to save GMRS from the very situation you have created, so if you think my suggestion is wrong…then GFY. This is exactly what needs to happen, in order to save both amateur radio and GMRS.
  8. “Why are there so many hams getting into GMRS ?” When I read through the reasons given, I see a distinct pattern. I have copied the pertinent responses below to illustrate my point. I also include some personal accounts that are occurring within my “local” area, regarding amateur radio operators and their use of GMRS. There are those on this forum that believe the purpose of GMRS is clearly and concisely stated by the FCC…” The GMRS is available to an individual (one man or one woman) for short-distance two-way communications to facilitate the activities of licensees and their immediate family members”. There are others who interpret the intent and purpose of GMRS as something beyond the scope of the above description. Based on the responses to the OP’s query, it seems that the two primary reasons offered here for a licensed amateur radio operator to use GMRS, are: 1. There is more opportunity to talk to people. (beyond the scope of facilitating activities of their families) 2. A desire to have a means of communication with an unlicensed family member. (completely within the scope of facilitating activities of their families) Here are the responses that specifically address the OP’s question… “There's actually people to talk to on GMRS”. “Ham is in an activity null” “Availability, coverage and the people using it” “Around the Detroit area 2M and 70cm are dead most of the time. On GMRS you only have a handful of frequencies to use so it doesn’t take much to find activity” “I can give one of my GMRS radios to my wife” “In my case a GMRS license allows me to give a cheap and useful radio to all family members” “I use GMRS out with the family unit all the time” “I use GMRS because my wife and I can communicate with it. I'm a ham, she's not” “I am a ham… Talked to Corey and Buddy with that group and got interested in linking. I never looked back. Got a group that's local that gets on a chats on the 675 locally and many of them get on the linked system as well” As we can see, based on the responses, those licensed amateur radio operators utilizing GMRS in order to talk to their family members, have no other reason as to why they prefer GMRS over amateur radio, other than the desire and need to communicate with their family members who do not have an amateur license. Their possession of an amateur license does not really factor into their utilization of GMRS. Those hams who specifically cited a reason they prefer GMRS over ham radio is because of the likelihood that they will find someone to talk to. They can increase that likelihood by linking GMRS repeaters. There is little-to-no ham radio activity local to them. So this is an indication that they are looking at GMRS as an activity within itself…the hobby of talking. They want to use GMRS to talk to people beyond their families, and even to talk to people in locations beyond the RF footprint of their radios or repeaters. In fact, they are saying that they are using GMRS as a substitute for amateur radio, since amateur is not meeting their expectations. They don’t particularly care if GMRS is not really intended as a suitable radio service for this activity. Local to me, members of an amateur radio club is encouraging other members to get a GMRS license, and is scheduling a GMRS simplex net. Those members who are encouraging this action, are doing so because it is clear they are not happy with the people they are finding on the amateur radio bands, and openly state they prefer the people they find on GMRS. There were a few responses from members on this forum that also included a dissatisfaction with those they encountered on the amateur bands. This further indicates to me, that many of these hams are looking to strike up friendships and connections via the airwaves, and are looking for camaraderie and fellowship. To engage in conversation and chat. None of these things are why I use GMRS. Also, these hams may want to possibly exercise control of a channel or group, via controlling a wide coverage repeater that makes it difficult for others to utilize, or an organization of people, to control who is allowed in the club, and who is allowed to use their repeater. Oddly, this all sounds just like ham radio to me. As the old saying goes…”be careful what you wish for”. It indicates that the amateur radio service has not fulfilled their desires, and they are using GMRS to fulfill that desire. Also, unrelated to the OP’s question, many that are obtaining GMRS licenses are coming from CB radio, and are moving their local “round table” CB radio sessions to GMRS repeaters. So now we have dissatisfied amateur radio operators and CB radio operators, leaving the RF spectrum that is available to them, to move to 8 available repeater channels. It’s gonna get crowded fast. While not within the scope of the OP’s original question, perhaps amateur radio better reassess it’s current requirements and mission, and see if it can provide an environment that entices people, particularly hobbyists, back to that service.
  9. Just for the purpose of accuracy, there are a number of Kenwood commercial radios that can be programmed with Chirp. I have personally used Chirp to program a TK-862, and Chirp lists a few Vertex radios as well. Chirp does not appear to support the model the OP mentioned, but there are some commercial radios that can be programmed with Chirp. Looking at Chirp’s supported radio list prior to posting this, I see an asterisk on some models, noting a possible change in support status using something called “Chirp-Next”. I don’t use Chirp often, and don’t keep up on the changes to it, so if one is interested in using Chirp for a Kenwood TK model, do your own research.
  10. While I don’t believe Express Traffic exists in the Philly area anymore, it may well be that this GMRS system was part of that back in the day. That would explain why it has such a large coverage area. If there is an input at Roxborough, Pa., that would likely only come about from a company or corporation, since that is where many of the TV and radio station antennas are located, and a lowly GMRS user would not be likely to gain access to that site.
  11. It sounds like WOML364 but I find no listing for that callsign in the FCC database. I tried a few other iterations (like 365) but no listing on the ULS. Since you said you slowed it down, I am guessing are hearing the repeater system that I believe is linked, and IDs at around 40 WPM, which I am sure is intentional, so as no one can copy it., and I think one of the inputs is in Roxborough, as I recently heard a discussion about that on that system. I think there are other inputs in S. Jersey, but I have no direct knowledge of what is going on there. This system was briefly discussed in another thread, because it was noted that no one ever IDs…they simply use unit numbers. I recognize a few of the users from Philly area amateur radio repeaters, as they are also licensed for ham radio operation. I guess they suspend their adherence to required FCC protocol on this guy’s system. They go “10-8” and “10-7”, because I guess they like to pretend they are in public safety. I was in public safety, and have no time for “wannabes”. Having a repeater with a big repeater footprint does not make up for this guy’s other shortcomings in life. I believe the owner of the system is some guy named Ed, and goes by 820 or 821 or 822, depending on what PL tone he is using, as the system used many different tones, via a community tone panel. I also believe, but may be wrong, that you obtain the “privilege” to use his system by paying him, but I do not know that for a fact. Just key up when you hear “820…10-8” and ask him what you have to do to be part of that group. Money always talks.
  12. I own both a UV9D Mate and UV9D. They are my favorite HTs, and have sold off my name brand amateur HTs in favor of these radios. My only complaint with the UV9D radios is that AM receive audio (aircraft) can be louder than the FM reception, particularly with close aircraft. I live near a general aviation airport, so the traffic is only a couple of miles away and some transmissions can be quite a bit louder than the other signals received. They need some form a AGC to solve that I guess. I have not experienced any issues with intermod or other types of interference, as I have with other brands of Chinese radios, These radios seem to have good selectivity, keeping unwanted signals out, and the receive sensitivity of the UV9D models seems quite good. I also live near a high powered paging transmitter, and do not experience any bleed over from that on the UV9D. But I will mention I only use these radios as handhelds, and only with a rubber duck antenna. I have not connected them to an external or mobile antenna, and that could impact someone’s reception, regarding overloading of strong signals. The display can be difficult to read in direct sunlight, but that does not bother me much. I find these radios to be as good as one of the more expensive Yaesu HTs, and I can tell you personally I will never spend more money on something like a Yaesu, as their quality has deteriorated over the years, while Wouxun’s quality has improved greatly.
  13. The Midland MXT-275 is my submission for the “wasted money” category. First off, I will admit that it is entirely my fault. I had no idea anyone made a GMRS narrowband-only radio, so for failing to look at the FCC data prior to buying was my bad. I pre-ordered the MXT-275 in July of 2018, when Midland was taking pre-orders, thinking this was going to be the perfect radio for my wife’s car, making it as easy as possible for her to use a radio to access our repeater. When I finally got the radio, the audio was practically non-existent. Not only due to the narrowband audio, but also because the initial run of mics were F’ed. There were people reporting this at the time, but there was no public acknowledgement from Midland about the issue. Midland did send me a new mic (they knew it was F’ed), which did provide “better” audio, but the narrowband audio of the radio made it basically unusable on our repeater. I even programmed a second channel on the repeater in narrowband, to see if we could run this way, but it was too much of a PITA, as the other users were wideband. I replaced the 275 with a used Motorola CM200 in her car. The /\/\ radio cost less than the Midland, and life without Midland radios has been just peachy. I just sold the MXT-275 for $20 at a hamfest, just to get rid of it. If you feel sorry for me for taking such a loss, I will set up a GoFundMe account that you could contribute to, to help make me whole again. ? Midland. I personally despise the company, the MXT275, and what they have done to GMRS. But that’s just me.
  14. From my experience as a not-very-interested amateur radio license holder, I observed an interesting phenomenon occur on the local ham radio scene, as digital modes such as C4FM (Yaesu System Fusion) and DMR began to appear. It absolutely killed the local ham radio scene. People either embraced the technology, or hated it, and in that process, people got angry with those who disagreed with them (think modern day politics in America). As such, there is little-to-no amateur radio activity on repeaters anymore, and amateur radio as we knew it, has got both feet firmly in the grave…in this neck of the woods. Dozens of repeaters go unused. Those who embraced the digital voice modes (or “the dark side” as many called it), started out on talkgroups with fairly large gatherings of hams. Over time, they would get the azz of one another, and break off into other talkgroups of smaller, more intimate groups (another way of saying, only those who can tolerate each other), because they realized they could just keep creating new talkgroups. Now there are hundreds, if not thousands, of talkgroups, where two or three hams talk, where they used to talk to large groups on their local analog repeater. Excellent use of bandwidth. It is interesting to see the discussion of DMR, or perhaps some other form of modulation, on GMRS, with it’s limited bandwidth, and no requirement to understand anything at all about radios. When asked to share spectrum space with analog and digital users, I can only imagine what will happen. My worthless and unsolicited opinion is…if you want to play with a DMR radio, get yourself over to amateur radio. All sorts of people struggling there with code plugs, color codes, time slots, etc. And these are people who have “passed” a test to demonstrate proficiency in radio operation. I think there is too much effort being placed in trying to turn GMRS into amateur radio. People want internet linking, wide coverage repeaters, nets, vanity call signs, ARES/RACES affiliations, digital voice modes. It all exists over on ham radio.
  15. There is no ARES in GMRS, as ARES stands for Amateur Radio Emergency Services. You want to get involved with amateur radio. That has what you are looking for. It is recognized by government entities, and provides emergency communications, as well as providing communications for public events. Where I live, local ARES/RACES organizations have stations in the county Emergency Operations Centers (EOC), where the 911 dispatchers are, and most of the equipment is funded through Homeland Security grants. If you want to be involved in those activities, get on over to amateur radio. Besides being a hobby radio service, amateur radio also exists to provide emergency communications. An amateur radio license costs the same as a GMRS license, but provides you with many more opportunities beyond GMRS. Yes, you have to pass a test, but it is literally a test that you can memorize, as tens of thousands of people have done over the past decade or more. There is no math on a Technician test, and I don’t believe there is any math on a General test either.
  16. WRAM370

    newbie

    No you cannot get a vanity callsign on GMRS. What you want is an amateur radio license. You can get a vanity callsign, you can meet new and interesting people on repeaters and talk about all sorts of interesting topics, as well as use many other bands and forms of modulation…SSB, digital, internet linking, etc. Get an amateur radio license. It costs the same as a GMRS license, and you can easily memorize the questions to the test, as tens of thousands have done so. Very easy.
  17. I often wonder if individuals such as you are being misled about GMRS. You are not the first person to post on this forum about buying GMRS radios and being disappointed in not hearing local activity. I always wonder what people expect to hear on GMRS? What made you want to spend $300 on those two KG935g radios ? Did someone tell you there is a party going on the GMRS band, and everyone is invited…all for the cover fee of $35 ? If you could hear the activity on my low profile GMRS repeater between me and my wife, you would hear such exciting and interesting comments like “do you need anything from the liquor store while I am out?” or “I’m stopping for gas on the way home”. Not really worth dropping big bucks on radios to listen to that. If you were near an active, high profile GMRS repeater, you might hear people talking about their day, or some issue they are having with a bunion. Maybe they will talk about going fishing, and if they caught anything when they went fishing. These conversations might make you think that GMRS is short for “glamorous”, because the conversations are so interesting and compelling ? You mentioned you don’t participate in social media and don’t have television. Congratulations on that. I don’t have those things either, and honestly, no one needs them…they just haven’t realized it yet. But if you want to have a form of communications that might provide some timely information regarding events that may impact you, I would suggest you look at ham radio for that purpose. And if you want to sit around and talk about your bunions or your latest fishing expedition, you can do that on ham radio too. I hope you find a use for your radios. I also hope others who are thinking about getting GMRS radios take a moment to figure out if they want GMRS, or maybe they are really looking for the activity and experience ham radio offers.
  18. The OP references 462.575, and I believe he is hearing the same GMRS repeater I mentioned in my previous post. I don’t know the exactly location, but it is in the south Jersey area, east of Philadelphia Pa. If the OP would like to confirm that as correct, that would help clear up some confusion. If this is the repeater he is talking about, it is solely a GMRS repeater, not some public safety radio system, and not any sort of organization that has legitimate ties to public safety. It is simply a pay-to-play GMRS repeater that has wide coverage. If the owner was at one time, employed in public safety, we can only be thankful he is no longer involved in that field. There is no listing for this repeater on this site or others, as far as I know. There is a listing for a repeater in Delaware County PA that calls itself “LEARN South”, and I recall seeing at least one other repeater that called itself LEARN, which is some nonsensical reference to law enforcement, but has nothing to do with actual law enforcement or any other public safety concern. In the case of the “LEARN South” repeater, I believe the owner has a part time job related to the public safety field, but in no way does this repeater have any direct connection to any public safety activity or government agency. These guys simply use the acronym as a means of propping up their own self-esteem, which is why I used the terms whacker, wannabe, foamers, strokers in my previous post. I forgot to mention posers. Very similar psychology to ham radio operators that would purchase a badge with “Radio Operator” embossed upon it. Don’t forget to purchase the handsome wallet that can hold the badge, giving you even more authority when you “whip it out”. Again if the OP is talking about the same 462.575 repeater, and he references the owner 820 (I said 825 in my previous post…820, 825, whatever it takes), I have heard this guy argue with, and threaten, people who have put up their own repeaters, because I believe he runs a community tone panel with many tones, and that makes it difficult for someone to put up a repeater without “getting into” this guy’s repeater. I can hit this repeater with a handheld inside my house, some 40-50 miles away, so it is excessive in it’s coverage…IMHO. If that is the same person, I mentioned before that this man is arrogant and ignorant, and wants to control this repeater pair in order to force people to pay him for access. Such behavior amongst humans is pretty commonplace, and doesn’t impact me at all, but the OP started the thread wondering how they get away without ID’ing, and if they were actual law enforcement personnel, would they have an exemption from ID’ing. To my knowledge, from those I have heard on there, they are not employed in public safety (maybe I heard one use who was, but others I know are not, as I have heard them on the ham bands as well), and no such exemption would exist for members of public safety. This is GMRS, and all are subject to the same rules. The only place where law enforcement has an exemption is at the local Stop-N-Rob where they don’t have to pay for their coffee. And I seriously doubt the FCC would care about the lack of ID’ing on this, or any other GMRS repeater. The FCC only serves special interests of corporations like Motorola. It does not care about the citizens of the United States of America. The guy who owns this repeater is just a flawed individual who equates having a large footrprint repeater to compensating for shortcomings in his own life. As this individual would say when signing off…”820 10-7”
  19. I don’t know if these “Leern” or “Learn” GMRS systems are commonplace throughout the country, but there seems to be one in the south Jersey region (southern New Jersey, for those not from the area). The people go “10-8” and “10-7”, they will be “10-17” or “10-25”…blah blah blah. This is a GMRS repeater on 462.575. It is not a public safety radio system. It is a privately owned repeater. I never hear a callsign from these people, only unit numbers (“825 10-8”). I don’t know if this is a single repeater or a linked network, but what I hear is at least 50+ air miles away and the owner seems to have no concerns for others that would like to use that repeater pair, so I imagine he is ignorant and inconsiderate. I also believe this is a “subscription” repeater, which means you have to pay to use it, so I don’t think he is offering any sort of “community service” with this excessively large footprint repeater. As for law enforcement, or any public safety employees, having exemptions to ID on GMRS, the answer is no. And I don’t know if this LEERN or LEARN system has much to do with active members of public safety, or if this is just a bunch of wannabes and whackers. Just like the wannabes I hear on ham radio who announce they are “on radio”, pretending to be signing on for duty with a dispatch system. I can pretty much guarantee when the SHTF and “when all else fails”, these are the people who will fold immediately under pressure, because they are only about the appearance, and not about the true courage and integrity that is required to rise to an occasion. I can tell you with much certainty that those in public safety don’t generally go around announcing they are “10-8” if they key up a GMRS or FRS radio, and they don’t announce they are “10-17” to their local grocery store, as I have heard from this group. In fact, the normal behavior of those in public safety, particularly those in law enforcement, is to stay well below the radar, especially when your address is publicly listed by the FCC. Whackers, wannabes, strokers, foamers…they all seem to be drawn to radios for some reason. I often think it is because it gives them something to hold in their hand.
  20. I also found the cutting chart to be pretty close, and I made a number of small cuts on my 1486 until I achieved the best results. And as stated above, I aimed for the lowest SWR at the transmit frequency. I found the uncut Tram 1486 to be resonant around 420 mHz out of the package, so it needs to be cut for the appropriate frequency. I would also like to offer an observation about the Tram 1486. I had run a Comet CA-712EFC antenna, which is 10’ tall, on my repeater for the past couple of years, and it worked ok. I had very good swr measurements, fed it with 1/2” hardline, but my coverage was spotty due to my location. I live in an area that has rolling hills, with elevation changes of a couple hundred feet +/- within a mile or so of my location. I often say it is like living on a rollercoaster around here. Earlier this year, I put the Tram 1486 on the repeater, and it made a significant difference in my specific case. The Tram antenna seems to have a lower angle of take off, and/or a more downward radiation pattern. Using the Tram 1486, many of the RF “holes” that I had in my local coverage area were now filled in. I now have very consistent coverage within the 3-5 mile radius of my repeater, where I previously had a lot of holes in that same radius, with the Comet CA-712EFC. I have seen similar size antennas recommended on the forum, and they are no doubt of higher quality compared to the Tram 1486. It just so happened that I had the 1486 sitting in it’s packaging from when I bought it a number of years ago, so it was already here (and much cheaper when I bought it, versus today’s price). Just wanted to pass on my experience with this antenna, versus a more expensive and larger antenna. For those looking to install a repeater or an antenna for your base radio, carefully consider your terrain. In my case, “less” turned out to be “more”.
  21. While I understand the negative comments aimed at the quality of Chinese duplexers that are sold on Amazon and eBay, I have built several inexpensive GMRS and digital voice amateur 440 repeaters using the Fumei and SGQ duplexers, and have achieved results comparable to using Phelps-Dodge and Combilent duplexers, which are usually a bit more money. These notch-type duplexers are a compromise, but for budget builds, they work ok. Like you, I had to start to digest the info that is out there, and I couldn’t afford the quality band pass-band reject duplexers, but we all have to start somewhere in the learning process, so these inexpensive Chinese duplexers serve a need. I ended up buying this cheap spectrum analyzer with tracking generator off eBay, so I could tune these duplexers…Tracking generator I also have a NanoVNA, but I found this SA w/tracking generator easier to deal with, although you have to search out the instructions, since it doesn’t come with any. Ok, I’ll save you the search…SA w/ tracking generator instructions Looking at the photos you posted, I would guess you don’t have things set up correctly. You will also need a 50 ohm dummy load connected to the duplexer port you are not adjusting, and with the duplexer you have, you should be able to get to -85dB or greater. Use this site to figure your loss through the duplexer …dB calculator Using this calculator, and measuring the output from the transmitter radio, and measuring the output of the duplexer, I generally achieve about a 1.3-1.5 db loss through the Fumei/SGQ/Combilent duplexers, which is average for these types of duplexers. I am not a professional. I am not someone who lives and breathes this stuff. I am just a hobbyist with decades of experience in blowing things up, shorting things out, and otherwise screwing the pooch with electronics. I am just giving you some info that works for me, after building 4 or 5 GMRS repeaters out of old commercial mobile radios, and 3 multimode (DMR/C4FM/D-Star) amateur repeaters. Are there better ways to do it than I did ? yeah…do I care? no. The repeaters I built with these types of duplexers still work, don’t cause issues because they are not in RF-intensive locations (well, actually, one is at a county EOC and works great), and serve the users’ needs at an affordable cost.
  22. Since the OP asked for opinions, I will offer up my opinion. I disagree with his statement that more GMRS repeaters are needed. In my opinion, GMRS is not a hobby, it is a service primarily intended for short-distance communications, to facilitate the activities of the licensee’s family. Since that intended purpose comes directly from the FCC’s definition of GMRS, I don’t see why we need more repeaters. My opinion is that GMRS is not ham radio. It is not CB radio. But the high profile GMRS repeaters in my part of the world are used by people that already talk on CB, and on ham radio . The conversations are exactly the same, regardless of where they talk, so why do we need to waste precious bandwidth on GMRS for those conversations, when we already have other band allocations for that ? For those that believe GMRS serves a function in civil emergencies, I would also direct you to amateur radio, specifically the ARES/RACES groups that provide those functions. Again, I believe we do not need to duplicate these functions across radio services. It is fine if a local neighborhood repeater such as mine could serve people in a time of need, but that is not it’s true purpose, and I don’t have lofty goals of making it that way. And most people within the couple of miles range of my repeater would not have access to repeater-capable radios, and likely only have FRS radios, so it would be of no use in that case. My repeater covers maybe 4 miles…on a good day, and only with mobile radios (hey, GMRS stands for General Mobile Radio Service, not “sit in my easy chair with my walkie talkie and talk to someone 40 miles away via a repeater”). It serves the needs of my family for short distance communications. We do use Zello as a means to extend coverage, if necessary, but it is again only for the family…not for a guy in Michigan to ragchew with a guy in Florida, or to hold “nets”. This is exactly why the amateur radio service exists, and where these activities should take place. A nearby GMRS repeater is connected to the MyGMRS network, and it simply transmits conversations of people not even within the state, all day long (not really all day, just exaggerating to make a point). A nearby ham repeater is connected to the America Link network, and transmits conversations of people not even within the state, all day long. What is point of having these broadcast stations, when local users are not using these repeaters ? We do not need more repeaters for GMRS. We need fewer people that think GMRS is CB or amateur radio.
  23. Transmit and receive range are primarily determined by your local terrain. While there are some people who are fortunate enough to live in relatively flat terrain, others like myself, live in places where the terrain changes elevation by hundreds of feet within a mile or two of my location, and it is like that for miles in all directions. Even with a 10 foot tall base antenna on my repeater, mounted at 40’ above the ground, and a 40 watt transmitter, I cannot get much more than 3-4 miles to a mobile due to the hills and valleys where I live, and walkie talkie range is less than a mile. As an interesting aside, I switched to a 5’ tall antenna, and put that in my attic, some 15 feet lower, and it does as good or better than the taller antenna. I know why that is, but won’t bore you with the science behind that. I don’t know if it is flat where you live, but that could be a reason you are not getting the expected results. Another factor is the type and location of the antenna you use. Your vehicle’s body is part of the antenna system, and that mounting location will compromise your coverage area. Midland is correct in saying that your mounting location is not ideal, but your response to them is not really a reasonable response, and I am not surprised they did not respond. Midland is not responsible for how you install and use your radio and antenna. We all bear some responsibility for understanding what it is we are trying to do. Your Jeep is also not the ideal vehicle to mount an antenna, as it really needs a metal roof in order to add the other half of the antenna equation. But there are ways to deal with that if you are serious about getting the most out of your situation. You can search for vehicle bonding and antennas to get ideas. K0BG.com (that’s k zero B G) is a good place to look for info on that. These are just parts of the physics behind radio, and no marketing campaign can change that. Midland has been very successful in convincing Jeep owners to buy GMRS radios, but the way Midland intends the Jeep owner to use a GMRS radio is very different from what you are trying to do. Midland is really catering to the off-road/overland crowd, who are traveling together, so range is not such an issue. Quite frankly, most Jeep owners could get away with cheap FRS walkie talkie radios when they are on the trail with their friends. Midland just convinced them they needed GMRS mobile radios, instead of the old CB radios they have used for years, because Midland needs to sell radios, and Midland is getting out away from CB radios. If you are not getting the desired results from GMRS, you might look at CB radio instead. CB radio operates in the 27 mHz HF band, in which the radio signals are pretty big, and will literally bend over hills and dales, and give you better coverage. GMRS radio signals will hit the side of the hill and stop. I can literally talk farther on a 4watt AM/12 watt sideband CB radio, than I can on a 40 watt GMRS radio where I live, due to the physics behind radio technology. In fact, I can talk to a friend 25 miles away on CB radio, with a 1000’ hill between us, but can’t communicate at all on GMRS or VHF/UHF bands, even with 50 watts or more. And I have talked to him mobile to mobile on CB at 40 miles or more, which would be impossible for us to do on GMRS in this type of terrain. I know I typed a lot here, but I am just trying to give you, and others that are new to GMRS, some reality. I am not trying to sell you a radio, or asking you to smash the Like button. I am only giving you some of what I have learned over 50 years of playing with radios. And in that 50 years, the physics behind radio hasn’t changed…and guess what, it never will.
  24. This appears to be a rebranded Anysecu WP-9900, which is a dual band radio 136-174/400-480 mHz. I imagine this Baofeng Tech model has different firmware in order to restrict transmit to the GMRS channels. I bought an Anysecu WP-9900 for $129. It is ok, but it does not have the front end rejection of better quality radios. What this means is that it is subject to interference as you drive around, and go by LED billboards and signs, etc. The audio from the speakermic is a bit weak when running at highway speeds. I got this for my wife’s car, which is a newer 2020 model, and it can be mounted under the seat. But if it was in my Xterra, which is running aggressive 33” tires, I imagine it would be very difficult to hear the audio from the speakermic at highway speeds, due to the interior noise from the tires. So I am not condemning this radio, but you could have full transmit capabilities for $20 less, if you are inclined to do that sort of thing.
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