UncleYoda

I think I got it. Well, I hate to complicate things more since this topic is about fixed station. But, there is a glaring problem with that definition. Control station, as I'm familiar with it, does not have to be "at a fixed location". Mobiles and HTs can be control stations if they can exercise control. And for that matter, control stations can communicate with base stations and portable, not just mobile (they don't control them necessarily but do communicate). So this is another crappy definition. I don't know how fine-grained they define it. But the linking I mentioned was part of normal use. There was something for HAM that was referenced in the test questions about what constituted a control station but I can't recall it exactly. What about portables? You really think they don't allow bases to talk with portables? Seems ridiculous. That's a conclusion in your words, not their wording, right? My understanding (from the HAM side of things) from memory is that a control station has the ability to turn off or disable the repeater if it's causing a problem. Normal users doing linking do not have that ability, just unlinking. I don't know of a test case about this though. I know but the GMRS regs leave out a lot that's needed for clarity. So, what do we do, call FCC? It definitely should not be this complicated for a simple pay your fee license.

Sorry, I haven't yet figured out how to break a quote into multiple parts here. A control station is a remotely located station that exercises (or has the ability to) control over another station. [my wording not quoting regs] DTMF is the main way I know of but I believe there are others including through an interface with a computer. Mounted on a desk with rooftop antenna is a base station to most folks. Simply being able to send DTMF does not make you a control station the same way being able to post here doesn't make you a moderator. In my state, we have a statewide linking network of 2m and 440 HAM repeaters and when the statewide link is not already activated ordinary users can send DTMF codes to link two repeaters and to unlink. We are not control stations in doing so, which becomes obvious when there is a problem like noise interference on the linked system. I know that's a HAM example but I'm sure the technology is similar on GMRS. Regarding your last paragraph about the FCC, yes they may not come after us but for some of us the point is we're trying to follow the rules. We just want them to make their meaning clear.

Religious and political statements are not, and cannot be, legally prohibited. It's just HAM tradition to not talk about anything meaningful other than your equipment.

But if they gave a good enough definition and description then you would know why and what their function is.

I'm allowed to comment on whatever I please, especially in my own topic. But I won't need to comment on yours anymore!

Yea, that's one example of what they might be referring to, along the lines I was thinking. But it needs to be better defined by them. MURS has driveway alarms and remote radios for talking to a base at the house. But MURS is limited in wattage. 15W sounds kind of high if that's all they meant for GMRS fixed stations..

That's the "definition" (so they call it) that I referred to in the original post. It does not define what a fixed station is. I don't feel like going through all the references in the regs, at least right now. Maybe I'll do it later but the point of asking a question here was not to defend my interpretation of the regs; it was to see if someone knew the answer. As it stands, I still don't know the answer and it seems no one else does either.

Radios at your house and cabin are base stations at fixed locations regardless of who you talk to (whether mobile, portable or base). The regs make it clear to me that fixed station means something different. Doesn't mean I can convince anyone else though.

I don't know if this will help you see the other side or not. Any type of radio, including handheld and mobile, can be a control station. It's what the person is doing with it that makes it a control station. They can be a control station of their own repeater and just a user of someone else's.

Well, expecting the general public to read and comprehend an omission in one spot as a general prohibition of a common use is ridiculous. There isn't even a test and thus no studying for a license in this service so how many people could they reasonably expect to be that familiar with details of the regulations. I agree about control operators; I said the same thing with different words (that's what I meant by functions). Control station is not a real concern for me and I don't accept that as a rationale for base stations using repeaters. A mobile or handheld would be doing exactly the same operation when they transmit to a repeater. I'm just hung up on the wording in the regulations being inadequate for the target audience. And I will (maybe?) hold off any more equipment purchases unless and until I know what use I can really get out of it. [There's been more activity on the repeaters near me (which I have membership for) again this weekend so there's still some interest there.]

I know it's Part 95. The point of looking at other services in both cases was just to possibly understand it better. But that can also cause misinterpretations too due to service differences. In my case, a local HAM suggested looking at the HAM rules for comparison but he was wrong because it isn't mentioned. And I don't do Part 90, so I don't want to dig into that while not being familiar with all the intricacies of it. I hope you're right about using base stations. I just hate to put my money into a higher priced unit and then find out I'm not allowed to use it without getting in the car and maybe driving somewhere (not sure moving the car is necessary, but it isn't parked in the best spot for TX). Most of the conversations I hear on the club repeaters are at night when I'm usually not out driving. And sometimes the weather is not good and it's nice to stay inside.

I don't know of anywhere the GMRS rules say base stations are allowed only simplex. Although uncommon, it is possible to have separate TX and RX frequencies even when not using a repeater. The issue with base stations is they aren't listed as one of the types that are allowed to use the 467 MHz main channels. It comes down to whether that omission is a prohibition. I would expect a clear statement like, "Base stations are not permitted to transmit on these frequencies." But you never know how things can be interpreted. And what makes a station a control station is it is controlling something, typically a repeater's functions. Since I don't have a repeater, control stations are not an issue for me. And that lame circular definition that says fixed stations talk to other fixed stations does not tell us what makes one a fixed station. But I've mostly come to the conclusion, even though I don't know what it is exactly, that it won't apply to my use.

KAF6045, I'm used to control stations and repeaters being treated separately from base stations (like in HAM). The rules are different in some cases too. Radioguy7268, thanks but unless Part 95 refers to those Part 90 definitions it would not be good to assume they are used the same. I did check Part 97 because that is what I'm most familiar with, but fixed station and base station were not even mentioned (assuming my search function worked). It looks like fixed station is probably not much of a concern from what I can discern (all mine will be mobile, portable or base). But not using a base station for repeaters kills my main interest and makes my club membership worthless. I'll have a good pair of walkie-talkies but that's about all.

That is correct as I believe I've read it stated that way in the regs and I think that was covered in the ham test questions I studied years ago. Just using the repeater for transmitting doesn't make you a control station. EDIT: Control station is a different issue (not a concern to me currently) and I'd like to keep this focused on what a fixed station is.

But that's just it. It should not be left for us "to picture" or figure out or guess at their meaning. It's their responsibility to make it clear so everyone knows.

That was the other big issue I had. I was going to leave it for another thread but it is related. I've been back and forth on these two issues. I wouldn't like it but I could live with the 15W limit if my base was considered a fixed station. But then I figured out that fixed was something different, so that was not an issue (unless or until I figure out what a fixed station means so I know if it applies). But that leaves me with the even bigger limitation of not being able to use a base station for transmitting through repeaters. I don't want to get a mobile rig just for the car because I'm not driving much anymore. So both of these are concerns I'd like to resolve. Does just the fact that base station isn't specified as allowed mean that it's not? Seems odd to me that people writing regulations would rely on the omission of a use as the criteria for preventing its use. They could and should say explicitly what is not allowed.

I've read the wording including the meaningless circular definition in Part 95. There is a lot that seems confusing, maybe even contradictory, about what the regulation writers mean. I can at least tell that a fixed station is something different from a base station. But can't grasp what they are referring to. They should give practical examples but they don't. This affects any purchase I may decide to make for a mobile with more power and/or an antenna with higher gain so I don't want to buy more than I can use as a dual-use mobile and base station.

Uh, you didn't answer my question (if I had one) because I'll already knew other radios would work if you want to do that. I don't mod anything or break the rules for now. If the whole system collapses then that is the time.

I guess just so I could talk to wonderful people like you. /sarcasm

My HAM HTs have 1W on low (officially) and would do those frequencies but I have not tested TX. I think the GMRS variation I have ordered are the same. Only thing I have rated at 2W is some old GMRS radios that only do the 462 frequencies. $25 would be OK but I won't buy anything from BTech or similar vendors I don't recall any reputable dealers selling anything near that price even 10 years ago but I probably did not look at multi-radio package deals either. I think a good antenna is what would make the difference, so if MURS doesn't suffer from the FRS fixed antenna limitation I might add it to the wish list.

did you mean "without" the drama BS, because we certainly don't need that on HAM

I'm new to GMRS so I may see it differently than y'all because of that. It was the linked repeaters that piqued my interest (and the club is going to add more). I was discouraged from joining in before because the repeater closest to me is closed (paid members only, not accepting more). Coming from the HAM world the idea of having to be in multiple clubs just to use 2 repeaters close to me did not sit well. Without repeaters I would have almost no use for GMRS because family members aren't interested. The comment above about using MURS if you want VHF seems odd to me. Wouldn't we need yet another radio for that? I've just about hit my limit on buying more radios just because of complicated regulations, especially when one radio is technically capable of doing them all. But if it didn't take buying dedicated equipment first just to experiment, I would have been interested in experimenting with what MURS could offer. I like the 150MHz VHF (or lower) range better than 400+.

Thanks. Mine looks different (on laptop not phone). But it is there now anyway!

Is My Requests supposed to track requests I sent or just requests sent to me? (I don't have any of my own repeaters.) I sent one but it isn't showing there.