SpeedSpeak2Me

That's really interesting... No ground plane and it's best out-of-band, add one in and it vastly improves. I went and did the MXTA13, cause, why not? I used a RigExpert Stick Pro, and had the antenna centered on the roof of a 2007 Chevy Silverado. From 400 MHz up to 500 MHz (wanted a really large image of what it was doing) it stays under 1.67:1. First band is 70cm, second narrowed band is 64cm, red line is center of GMRS. 462.600 MHz - 1.40:1 467.600 MHz - 1.39:1 Also, just wanted to say, I took the plunge into getting the Stick Pro because of your demonstrations with the AA-650. It's a fantastic tool to have!

What I find interesting about this particular Midland antenna is that they say it does not require a ground plane. I would have thought it was a 5/8λ antenna, which would require one. Midland states that almost all of their other antennas do require a ground plane. If it were a stacked 5/8λ I would see it not requiring a ground plane, but unless they're hiding something in the loading coil, I'm not seeing it. I've also never tested one on the RigExpert to see what it does. What I really do like about it, and recommend it for others that want something simple yet effective, is that Midland did a great job tuning it from the factory. Just slap it on and go, and that's exactly what some people want to have, and there is no fault in that. Even their little MXTA13 with 20' of spaghetti for coax does a nice job. For a few occasions I've used the 13 with a DB-20G and had no problems hitting repeaters at 20 miles, even on low power. I've never analyzed with the RigExpert though, as I acquired the antenna long before I got the analyzer, and never really gave it much thought. I'll be back, got something I need to go do

I think you'll be able to get by just fine with a 1/2 wave antenna. They're good for flat terrain due to the way they propagate the RF (closer to horizon and flatter). I have one on the back of my car due to limited space for not enough ground plane. Do I sacrifice some performance? Yes. But it's a good compromise antenna that does what I need it to do, and can still work repeaters at 30-40 miles with it, with just 15w. Question, would you still be having it on the roof of the truck's cab, or on the rack itself? For ground plane It won't really matter since a 1/2 wave doesn't need one, but I'd hate to see the bottom quarter or half of the antenna (mast) itself sitting below the framework. That'll hurt performance as well. You've definitely got a challenging situation there.

I would only use a ghost/phantom/pepper shaker antenna as a last resort. I can't see them ever outperforming any kind of stick antenna. That Comet is 16" (mobile) compared to 3.4", so that makes a big difference in propagation.

Well, like I mentioned earlier, you're still going to blocking your signal with the A-pillar (and the rest of the vehicle in that direction).

First, it really needs to be higher, like on top of the vehicle with no obstructions. In that position you're transmitting right into your A pillar, which is going to pretty much block most of your signal in that direction. Second, that antenna requires a ground plane. From the mount being used there is virtually none. It might be catching a bit of the top of the fender and hood, but probably not much. By comparison, if it were on the center of the roof it would perform a lot better, as long as it wasn't being obstructed.

Without seeing what there is to work with in terms of clearance, it's hard to say. If you are looking for low-profile antennas, I've had good success with Laird, but have never tested the salt & pepper shaker "ghost" antennas. They do have both a 1/2λ no-ground plane, and a one that does require a ground plane. The second one doesn't state the wavelength, but since it requires a ground plane I'm going to presume it is 5/8λ. Both require an NMO mount. No Ground Plane: https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas/11440-laird-connectivity-etrab4500n-detail Ground Plane: https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/phantom-disguise-antennas/8290-laird-connectivity-etrab4503-detail

So, since the thread was bumped, wanted to give an update. I did get the BB4505C, and used it on two road trips, and also while many farz from a few repeaters. This antenna is pure excellence in a 32" package. Got it tuned pretty much damn near flat across the GMRS band, using a Laird mag mount. Best continued contact I had was just about 100 miles into a repeater. I was also able to do about 70 miles into a repeater whose receive antenna is about 300' AGL, using about 4.25w. Those were not just "was able to key", but carried on a conversation. Granted communications were primarily late evening or at night. Even day time I can do 40-50 miles, sustained. Simplex/Repeater outputs (avg to 462.6000 MHz) is 1.13:1. Repeater inputs (avg to 467.6000 MHz) is 1.17:1. It has an SWR of 1.5:1 or less from 456.7000 MHz to 477.5000 Mhz. Staying at 2:1 or less it goes from 437.0000 MHz to 481.2000 MHz. The black horizontal line denotes 1.5:1 I also picked up the BB4502N for use on a car where I don't have enough flat surface area for a ground plane to use the BB4503 or BB4505C without being really directional. The BB4502N is a no-ground plane 1/2λ 10" antenna. It obviously doesn't have the performance of the BB4503, but it really punches above its weight. If I am talking into repeaters at 300' AGL, I can easily hit 30-40 miles. Simplex/Repeater outputs it's 1.24:1. Repeater inputs it's almost the same, 1.22:1. I actually went a bit short on this one, but its usable bandwidth is still outstanding. SWR is 1.5:1 or less from 436.4000 MHz to 486.0000 MHz, that's not a typo. SWRs of 2:1 or less is 450.000 MHz to 501.4000 MHz.

@jsneezy, the Midland (5/8λ stacked) will be far superior to either the Nagoya or the Tram, hands down. If you want a good UHF-only performer that's not as tall, the Laird BB4503 (Black) or B4503 work great, but have to be tuned (trim the bottom of the mast). They are both 5/8λ, and about 10" tall, and work very very well. I normally use the BB4505C (32", also 5/8λ stacked), but when clearance is a concern I swap in my BB4503. With the BB4503 I have no problems hitting repeaters (250-300' AGL) at 30-40 miles with only 15w. *The Midland MXTA26 will not require any tuning.

What are you testing into, and what are you using for a meter? If you're using anything but a 50Ω dummy load for testing I wouldn't trust the output numbers. Also, need to make sure you have a good power source (like @gortex2 said). A continuous 13.8VDC is needed, and for a 50w transceiver it should be a constant 12-15A for the draw (the more the better). If you're using an inline meter while sitting in your vehicle and using an antenna, you're not going to get accurate power readings.

I used to run a Tram 6140, and for $50 it's really hard to find an antenna that performs as well as it did, especially for how inconspicuous it is. I'm now running a Browning BR-6155, and for the $110 I paid for it, it is an excellent performer. I don't understand the negative comments about either antenna or the manufacturer(s). With a budget of up to $200 for a base stick, you have plenty of options, just make sure it covers the 450-470 MHz (or 460-470 MHz) range: https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/base-antennas/commercial-base-antennas/976-omni-directional-antennas/250-380-525-mhz-uhf-antennas/by,product_price/dirAsc

Might be an issue since it is a ground plane required antenna. These are all UHF no ground plane required antennas. Just check that the frequency is correct. https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas As stated back on 5/11, I have this antenna and it works great, better than my expectations. Just took a bit of trimming, and they supplied a trim-length guide. I recommend getting the antenna mounted, and the coax run before performing any trims. The attenuation of the coax will slightly affect VSWRs. https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas/3230-laird-connectivity-bb4502n-detail Taller alternative: https://theantennafarm.com/shop-by-categories/shop-all/mobile-antennas/300-512-mhz-uhf/no-ground-plane-antennas/3232-laird-connectivity-bb4505cns-detai

The two mobile rigs will work okay, but have to set up the mag mount properly. Since it is a 5/8λ antenna it will need a ground plane at least 1/4 the diameter of the wavelength. So 64cm (wavelength) / 4 = 16cm (6.3") in all directions from where the antenna is placed. Usually dropping it in the center of a 16" pizza pan will work. Keep it away from walls, especially if you have aluminum siding. Better case would be to get the antenna outside, even if slapped on an AC unit. Best would be an actual base station antenna (UHF commercial) at least 20-30' up, with quality low-loss coax (i.e. LMR400 or LMR400UF). As an example I am using a Browning BR-6155 base antenna, that has its base about 24' AGL, fed by 50' of LMR400, and driven by only 15w. I can talk on repeaters over 60 miles away, on low power (about 5w). Also, it is possible no one is being chatty on that repeater tonight. I'd program a few more into your rigs, say out to the 50 or 60 mile mark. You might be able to hear or use the "Temple Canyon Ridge" to the south, or the Nash Forreston to the north.

There is a company, Diesel Power Products, that makes an NMO mount that sandwiches between the cab and HMSL (High Mount Stop Light). Josh from Ham Radio Crash Course installed one on his new 2023 Ford F-150 Lightning. They're not cheap, at $360. They also make a dual NMO for $436. https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p-bulletproof-diesel-third-brake-light-antenna-mount-17-21-superduty?variant_id=19192&gclid=CjwKCAiAmJGgBhAZEiwA1JZolr5krfYYI3FLAQpq4JQItmmOf3GdAd-GxnoAgbdszuyTFw5P9gPShRoC8y0QAvD_BwE

Are you testing the power output going into an antenna or a 50Ω dummy load? If the former, your measurement might not be accurate. Use a dummy load with as short of a quality cable as possible. Best setup would be a PL259 barrel connector directly from the rig to the meter, and the dummy load directly connected to the other side of the meter. That would take any cable attenuation out of the readings.

Take a look at the Laird antennas, the models that end with an "N", which stands for "No Ground Plane Required". I have the BB4502N (1/2λ) with a mag mount, and use it regularly for GMRS, and it receives UHF (amateur 70cm) just fine. I have used it for listening to NOAA weather reports on VHF (162 MHz) and it hears "ok". I haven't Rx tested it on local amateur 2m (144-148 MHz) to see how it does. Its primary design is for 450-470 MHz.

Since there doesn't appear to be a way to recreate a table within a post, I'll use a PNG instead. Tested the transceiver with a Surecom SW102, into a 50Ω 100w dummy load. All connections were direct, as in using a PL-259 barrel connector between rig and meter, and dummy load attached directly to the meter. Power supplied by an Astron RS-50M for a constant 13.8v. Power output averaged over 3-4 seconds of keying. About 15 seconds between frequency changes to allow rig to cool.

I did the same a few hours ago, and need to get my data into a spreadsheet. But I used a dedicated Astron RS-50M power supply, so I would have a constant 13.8v. No jumper cables, direct PL259 barrel connector to the SW102, and my 50Ω 100w dummy load attached directly to the meter. I tested all three power levels, all with a keying of 3-5 seconds so power output stabilized, and about 15 seconds between frequency changes to let the rig cool down. Initial keying did have higher numbers, but in the real world I don't see many people having one second conversations. Low / Medium / High (rounded to a 1/10th) GMRS Simplex (averaged from 462.550 to 462.725 MHz) - 4.5w / 8.1w / 15.4w GMRS Repeater (averaged from 467.550 to 467.725 MHz) - 4.2w / 7.5w / 15.1w 2m (averaged from 144.000 - 148.000 MHz) - 5.5w / 11.1w / 24.2w 70cm (averaged from 430.000 - 448.000 MHz)- 4.8w / 9.5w / *19.1w * High power started at 20.9w @ 430 MHz, and had dropped to 17.4w @ 448 MHz 2m National Simplex Calling (146.520 MHz) - 5.7w / 11.3w / 24.3w 70cm National Simplex Calling (446.000 MHz) - 4.4w / 8.8w / 17.8w

I’m height-restricted, so can’t go with something that tall. But have considered it, just to have it in the stable. My BB4503 came from the factory tuned at 452.900-453.000. I set it to about 463.500, and it’s still less than 1.5:1 all the way down to 440 MHz (70cm). I could use it for both bands, but would re-check where its impedance is closest to 50 Ohms, to be safe. Like others have mentioned, the Midland MXTA26 is an excellent performer, so is the Browning BR-450 (which might require trimming).

On my truck I have a Laird BB4503 (NMO) on a mag mount. It is a 5/8λ ground plane required. Each time I use it I am impressed with its quality and performance. It does need to be cut for proper tuning, and they provide the center frequency and length, so you're not guessing. I'm only running 14-18w into it, and for repeaters with a 250-300' AGL receive antenna I can hold the repeater, and talk out to 50 miles or so, as long as I have a good line-of-sight. For the car I am considering getting the Laird BB4502 (1/2λ) which is a no-ground plane required, since I don't have a good mounting location. It won't perform as well as the BB4503, but should be pretty close, and probably not enough of a difference for me to notice. Only difference between the "B" and the "BB" models is that the base is black, instead of stainless.

I could probably improve on the numbers just a bit, as I just hung it from the closest branch I could reach. I would expect it were up another 10' it would be improved. The bottom of the antenna (balun) was only about 4' off the ground, but it served its purpose for the testing. Since it only took a few minutes I'll eventually throw it further up in a tree and test again. Also, I used the Bluetooth functionality and did the sweeps using the AntScope2 software on the phone, then saved off the .ASD files to be read later. Not as good as direct USB-C to a laptop, but easier than trying to store the readings in a memory slot.

N9TAX MURS/GMRS with 16' of RG-58A/U and PL-259 connector, that I purchased a month or two ago. Antenna hanging from tree branch that is about 8' off of the ground. Scanned with a RigExpert Stick Pro. YMMV 148-156 MHz (covering MURS), 200 data points: MURS Channels 1, 2, and 3: MURS Channels 4 and 5 (Blue Dot, Green Dot): 440-480 MHz, 200 data points - this is a broad 40 MHz sweep, so accuracy suffers just a bit. The following three screen captures provide better data for GMRS: 460-470 MHz, 400 data points showing minimum SWR: Same as above, but showing rough center of GMRS repeater inputs: And GMRS simplex:

Don't forget to take in coax loss before calculating the ERP though. I thought the coax type was mentioned but not seeing it If using something like RG-8X then there will be substantial loss at 460-470 MHz, about 8.6 - 9.0db per 100'. So need to figure that loss in before the gain of the antenna. Knowing which coax is being used, plus total length would help with calculating the ERP. Just some information, but I have Browning BR-6155 (5/8 stacked, 5 dBd gain) mounted where the base of the antenna is about 15' AGL (antenna is 76" tall), and can key repeaters at 30 miles using just 0.4w, with enough audio to carry on a conversation. For the repeaters at 40+ miles I only need 2.5w. The antenna is pre-tuned for 450-470 MHz, and as being fed with 50' of LMR400. Mostly flat around here, and can have simplex communications with ground (car) units out to about 8-10 miles. Base to base about 10-15 miles. Previously the antenna base was at 40', and my simplex comms were 20-25 miles for base-to-base, and around 15 miles for mobile. Before finding a rig that will push 100w+, I'd make sure the coax I was using was as low-loss as I could afford, and then get a very efficient antenna. Something else to consider is the terrain. If it's flat, the something like a 1/2 wave antenna would be better, as its azimuth lobes are low down and cover greater distance. 5/8 wave would be the next best for some hilly terrain.

I'm thinking about getting one, to both test out and to have if I am off-roading, so I don't catch the whip on branches and damage it. From what I've seen, it is also an excellent performer.

I'm looking at my data now for the Laird. Down at 440 MHz you could still use this antenna, as it's at 1.66:1. I could have left it about 1/4" - 3/8" longer and tuned it for 455-460 MHz instead, and it would have been about 1.5:1 for 70cm and about 1.35:1 for GMRS repeater inputs. I really am impressed with it.