Base Station 50w recommendations with USB-C charge

[GreggInFL]

22 hours ago, Blaise said:

...because running completely flat might not entirely kill a lithium battery, but it will drastically decrease its capacity (You'll likely have effectively destroyed the batteries by the second time).

Does this apply to all batteries containing lithium, lithium ion and LiFePo4?

[Blaise]

21 minutes ago, GreggInFL said:

Does this apply to all batteries containing lithium, lithium ion and LiFePo4?

It's most true of straight lithium ion.  LiPo is much better.  I've seen them run down to 10% or less numerous times and still retain most of their capacity.  They don't like it if you *leave* them uncharged, though.  More than day or two sub-10% can easily do them in...

[Blaise]

FYI, anyone following this:  Walmart has a 2 ridiculously cheap power stations perfect for running a radio/charging your gear/lighting your campsite/etc...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/EF-EcoFlow-Portable-Power-Station-RIVER-2-240-243wh-LiFePO4-Battery-1-Hour-Fast-Charging-600W-Output-Solar-Generator-Solar-Panel-Optional-Outdoor-Cam/5478283286?adsRedirect=true

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Flashfish-Portable-Power-Station-Mini-Solar-Generator-98Wh-26400mAh-Lithium-Battery-120W-110V-AC-Outlets-LED-Light-Backup-Battery-Camping-Outdoor/371451213?classType=REGULAR

Note: the $149 one is marked in watt-hours, and the $69 one is in amp-hours.  LifePo cells are about 3.7 volts, so multiply the Amp-hours by 3.7 for a rough(very) comparison.  Whether the numbers listed are true?  Well, Walmart's better than Temu, but marketing departments are ubiquitous...

[WRUE951]

1 hour ago, GreggInFL said:

Does this apply to all batteries containing lithium, lithium ion and LiFePo4?

There is a miss conception when people say Lithium Batteries can completely die if allowed to completely discharge. Most Lithium batteries today have a protection circuit that wont let the battery completely discharge..  And most Lithium batteries have BMS System Circuit (Battery Management System) that manages an array of things, charging, bulk, discharging, temperature etc. BMS systems depend on a small amount of battery current to function, else they simply go to sleep and the battery will look dead until the BMS gets enough energy to function.  New BMS systems do not allow the battery to completely discharge, it turns the battery off reserving the small amount of energy so the BMS can function.   If the Lithium battery looses all voltage due to a completely discharged battery then it needs woken up.  How do you do that?  it depends on the battery as there are several methods,, a google search for your particular battery will find the answer,,  but the most common way i.e. a Power Tool Battery, you take a good charged battery and apply its voltage for several seconds to the dead battery..  That should 'wake' up the BMS so that it can now operate and sense the real charger to talk with and do its work..  a lot of people have thrown away perfectly good power tool batteries because they simply didn't know who to wake them up

[Blaise]

1 hour ago, WRUE951 said:

New BMS systems do not allow the battery to completely discharge,

The little handheld power bricks OP was talking about can often have minimal BMS, if any.  Especially if you got it from Ali Express!
 

Quote

There is a miss conception

She's a hard lady to find, that Miss Conception.  
 

[GreggInFL]

1 hour ago, Blaise said:

FYI, anyone following this:  Walmart has a 2 ridiculously cheap power stations perfect for running a radio/charging your gear/lighting your campsite/etc...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/EF-EcoFlow-Portable-Power-Station-RIVER-2-240-243wh-LiFePO4-Battery-1-Hour-Fast-Charging-600W-Output-Solar-Generator-Solar-Panel-Optional-Outdoor-Cam/5478283286?adsRedirect=true

That's the one I bought on Amazon for ~$159 in February. Presently it's $239 there. Nice product. I believe it's being replaced by the "3" model, which is fast enough in a power outage to act as a UPS.

[WRUE951]

15 minutes ago, Blaise said:

The little handheld power bricks OP was talking about can often have minimal BMS, if any.  Especially if you got it from Ali Express!
 

She's a hard lady to find, that Miss Conception.  
 

If it's Lithium, it has a BMS.   Now don't get miss concepted,, she'll beat your azz   

[LeoG]

4 hours ago, OffRoaderX said:

A friend of mine tried using his KG-1000G plugged into the lighter-hole in his care and the plug melted and caught on fire.. Not sure why a fuse didnt blow first... Melted plastic napalm got on his had and gave him a severe burn when he yanked-it out in a panic, but the radio was fine...   

My KG1000+ draws 8.7 amps according to my digital clamp meter.  I was surprised it was lower than 10 amps.

[LeoG]

3 hours ago, GreggInFL said:

Does this apply to all batteries containing lithium, lithium ion and LiFePo4?

Most LiFePO4 batteries can be drawn down completely without harm.  The BMS will protect them from discharging too far.  You might have to coax the battery to come back to life if the BMS turns it off for low voltage though.  Discharging a LiFePO4 fully does reduce it overall life.  But it is still going to substantially outlive a lead acid battery by 1000s of cycles.

[LeoG]

56 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

If it's Lithium, it has a BMS.   Now don't get miss concepted,, she'll beat your azz   

If it didn't it's burst into flames the 1st time you charged it.  They are very prone to thermal run away if unprotected.

[WRUE951]

19 minutes ago, LeoG said:

If it didn't it's burst into flames the 1st time you charged it.  They are very prone to thermal run away if unprotected.

back in 2014 i was playing with a brand new Samsung tablet when the thing started smoking like crazy.  I threw it in the kitchen sink, open the doors and if finally fizzled out.    I contacted Samsung, they fedexed me a brand new one over night along with a return package and box for the bad one..  They actually provided a fire proof bag with a zip lock to place the old one in.  I still use the replacement to this day.  

[LeoG]

Lithium Ion batteries can be very volatile even with protection systems.  Internal shorts can happen with minor damage to the battery and overheat them.  Fun is.  Glad you weren't hurt.

[GreggInFL]

Thanks everyone for the battery education. I was concerned because the power supply I purchased (above) has a warranty dependent on the buyer cycling the unit every quarter from 0% - 60%, while storing at 30%. I have done this once so far with no issues going to 0%, so the BMS must be kicking in at some point.

The app offers complete control over the charging SOC, so I may set the lower limit to something other than zero, just to be safe.

[WSHH887]

There are lots of power supply options today.  Jump packs, as I mentioned, can do much more than jump start a car.  I use small lithium units for things like my insulin refrigerator.  Decades of using frozen media to keep it cool ended when we get usable/portable power supplies.  For all the scare tactics about lithium, it's a heck of a lot less potentially dangerous than the tank of gas you drive around all day.  

[WRTC928]

2 hours ago, WSHH887 said:

Jump packs, as I mentioned, can do much more than jump start a car. 

I've used one to power a base unit in my living room. It wouldn't do the full 50 watts, but it worked fine otherwise.

[LeoG]

Surprised it wouldn't put out full wattage.  Those packs can put out some good amperage.

[WRTC928]

10 hours ago, LeoG said:

Surprised it wouldn't put out full wattage.  Those packs can put out some good amperage.

They can, but I'm guessing it was because I was using the "cigarette lighter" socket. It's something I got really cheap and they probably cut a few corners. It will crank my car but not my truck, so it's not the greatest starter pack in the world, but it's small and cheap.

[LeoG]

If I need battery power I have four 100Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries.  They really hold a charge well.  Been at full charge for a couple of months now and basically no depletion.  So it's a great standby backup for me.  Eventually one or more will get hooked up to my repeater.  I also have ten 100 watt solar panels and a 40 amp solar charger that can be deployed at anytime.  Again, eventually that'll go up in my backyard and supplement my household.

[WRTC928]

1 minute ago, LeoG said:

If I need battery power I have four 100Ah 12v LiFePO4 batteries.  They really hold a charge well.  Been at full charge for a couple of months now and basically no depletion.  So it's a great standby backup for me.  Eventually one or more will get hooked up to my repeater.  I also have ten 100 watt solar panels and a 40 amp solar charger that can be deployed at anytime.  Again, eventually that'll go up in my backyard and supplement my household.

I now have two 50ah LiFePO4 batteries which should work better, but I haven't tried them yet. 

[LeoG]

Having 2 is nice.  You can have one charging while using the other.  Swap out when it dies.  My 100Ah setup will eventually be a 48 volt system.

[WRYZ926]

I have several LifePo4 batteries. I have a 100 AH and a 50 AH that I keep in the shack for when I need them. I have a go box setup for portable radio with two 50 AH batteries and an ammo can style battery box with four 10 AH batteries hooked up in series. My next project is going to get some solar panels for my portable setups.