8 GMRS Repeater Channels

[WRTC928]

10 hours ago, WRUU653 said:

 I get what you’re saying but it is fairly common (really common) for people who are new to GMRS to not realize they are in fact different and try and change all their settings to make the simplex channels talk to a repeaters when they’re not grasping the concept. I think @SteveShannon is just trying to avoid putting out info that is confusing and point out what may be obvious to some to those that don’t know. 

 

10 hours ago, SteveShannon said:

It might seem pedantic, but if you’re on channel 19 on a 95E certified radios, you can’t transmit to the repeater.  If you can’t transmit to the repeater it’s not a repeater channel. 

Okay, I can see why using channel 19 and the repeater channel (however the manufacturer has labeled it) interchangeably could be confusing to some people.

[WRTC928]

46 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

What?  It's a simplex channel because transmit and receive are the same frequency (no offset). Normal repeaters require the offset but there is a thing called simplex repeater too.  And there's nothing in the regs that prevents fixed stations from transmitting on 467 simplex if your radio lets you.

That's interesting. It doesn't mention fixed stations. Not that it means anything for most of us, because we're unlikely to be operating a station that communicates only with other fixed stations.

§ 95.1763 GMRS channels.

The GMRS is allotted 30 channels—16 main channels and 14 interstitial channels. GMRS stations may transmit on any of the channels as indicated below.

(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

Out of curiosity, has anyone here seen a true fixed station in operation? What was its purpose?

[UncleYoda]

Nope!  This is what my copy says:

(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on
these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels
only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in
accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000,
467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

 

Notice that fixed is not included in the restriction to repeater use.  (Fixed stations aren't allowed to use repeaters so that makes sense.)

[WRTC928]

2 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

Nope!  This is what my copy says:

(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on
these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels
only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in
accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000,
467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

 

Notice that fixed is not included in the restriction to repeater use.  (Fixed stations aren't allowed to use repeaters so that makes sense.)

You're right. I skipped right over the part where you were only talking about fixed stations.

[SteveShannon]

18 minutes ago, WRTC928 said:

Out of curiosity, has anyone here seen a true fixed station in operation? What was its purpose?

Search for threads with Fixed Station in the title.  There are a couple and they are multiple pages trying to address this.  

[Lscott]

Read section C. These are the repeater main 467 channels. Fixed stations I believe are primarily for equipment control and not for normal  communications. This would make sense since the 467 main channel frequencies are the repeater inputs, which can also receive control commands from a fixed station.

47 CFR § 95.1763 - GMRS channels. | Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

[RoadApple]

2 hours ago, UncleYoda said:

And there's nothing in the regs that prevents fixed stations from transmitting on 467 simplex if your radio lets you.

I'm not sure about that.  I believe I recall reading that the 467Mhz frequencies are for repeater input only and simplex use is not allowed.

[SteveShannon]

Just now, RoadApple said:

I'm not sure about that.  I believe I recall reading (Part 95 sub E ) that the 467Mhz frequencies are for repeater input only and simplex use is not allowed.

There’s nothing in the regulations that prohibits simplex use on the 467 MHz main channels.  They are limited to use for either repeater input, short term testing,  OR Fixed Stations, with no mention of simplex or duplex. Others have already posted the regulation, but here it is anyway:

Quote

 

(c) 467 MHz main channels. Only mobile, hand-held portable, control and fixed stations may transmit on these 8 channels. Mobile, hand-held portable and control stations may transmit on these channels only when communicating through a repeater station or making brief test transmissions in accordance with § 95.319(c). The channel center frequencies are: 467.5500, 467.5750, 467.6000, 467.6250, 467.6500, 467.6750, 467.7000, and 467.7250 MHz.

 

 

[LeoG]

22 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

There’s nothing in the regulations that prohibits simplex use on the 467 MHz main channels.  They are limited to use for either repeater input, short term testing,  OR Fixed Stations, with no mention of simplex or duplex. Others have already posted the regulation, but here it is anyway:

 

So what about talk around?  I use that a lot.  On the other side of the river where my repeater doesn't reach my home station does.  So I just switch into talk around to communicate with the little lady.

[RoadApple]

20 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

There’s nothing in the regulations that prohibits simplex use on the 467 MHz main channels.  They are limited to use for either repeater input, short term testing,  OR Fixed Stations, with no mention of simplex or duplex.

Oh, I see it now.  Thanks!  Interesting carve out for "Fixed Stations".  Was there a specific reason for this exception to the repeater input clause or was it simply an omission in the text? 

[SteveShannon]

1 minute ago, RoadApple said:

Oh, I see it now.  Thanks!  Interesting carve out for "Fixed Stations".  Was there a specific reason for this exception to the repeater input clause or was it simply an omission in the text? 

I don’t think it was an omission. Fixed Stations may only communicate with other Fixed Stations so they cannot communicate through a repeater anyway. 
Also Fixed Stations are limited to 15 watts. 
It’s easy for me to imagine a set of Fixed Stations being used as for dedicated family communications between buildings, such as farmhouses and outbuildings on a farm or for irrigation control using DTMF controlled relays. 

[SteveShannon]

12 minutes ago, LeoG said:

So what about talk around?  I use that a lot.  On the other side of the river where my repeater doesn't reach my home station does.  So I just switch into talk around to communicate with the little lady.

If you read the regulations strictly it’s not allowed.

When you’re talking directly to the little lady are you talking through the repeater?

When you’re talking to the little lady are you both using Fixed Stations?

You might be able to claim that you’re briefly testing…

But I don’t think anyone cares.  I know I don’t.

[UncleYoda]

3 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

If you read the regulations strictly it’s not allowed.

On a normal repeater channel, Talk Around would be transmitting on 462, so that is allowed.  Maybe I misunderstood the idea though.

[SteveShannon]

Just now, UncleYoda said:

On a normal repeater channel, Talk Around would be transmitting on 462, so that is allowed.  Maybe I misunderstood the idea though.

No, you’re correct, one of the radios would be transmitting on 462, but the other would be transmitting on 467 and not through the repeater.

[WRUE951]

41 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

There’s nothing in the regulations that prohibits simplex use on the 467 MHz main channels.  They are limited to use for either repeater input, short term testing,  OR Fixed Stations, with no mention of simplex or duplex. Others have already posted the regulation, but here it is anyway:

 

Yet, a lot of people ignore the rule and talk simplex on them anyway, mostly travelers.   I guess they think they are being more 'private'   

[SteveShannon]

9 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

Yet, a lot of people ignore the rule and talk simplex on them anyway, mostly travelers.   I guess they think they are being more 'private'   

And people mention Simplex Repeaters, but the official Personal Radio Services definition of a Repeater Station doesn’t support store and forward, which is what a Simplex Repeater does.

Quote

Repeater station. A station in a fixed location used to extend the communications range of mobile stations, hand-held portable units and control stations by receiving their signals on one channel (the input channel) and simultaneously retransmitting these signals on another channel (the output channel), typically with higher transmitting power from a favorable antenna location (typically high above the surrounding terrain).

To add to that the only channels Repeater Stations are allowed to transmit on are the 462 MHz main channels and the only channels that radios may transmit to a repeater are the 467 main, repeater communications are clearly duplex.

[RoadApple]

4 minutes ago, SteveShannon said:

Fixed Stations may only communicate with other Fixed Stations...

So, let me see if I have this right.  The "legal use" of 467Mhz simplex is all about the devices on each end of the communication as that determines if you are classified as a "Fixed Station". 

Seems to be a fluid definition....  When the radio in my house is being used to communicate with the radio in your house, we can call ourselves "Fixed Stations" and transmit simplex on 467Mhz.   But if a mobile or handheld popped up (simplex) on the same 467Mhz frequency and tried to contact us they would be in violation.  Likewise, if either one of us "Fixed Stations" failed to ignore that person's transmissions and communicated with that mobile or handheld (intentional or not), we would by virtue of that action, change our classification from a "Fixed Station" to a "Base Station" and would thus also be in violation for using 467Mhz simplex.      

   

[LeoG]

1 hour ago, SteveShannon said:

If you read the regulations strictly it’s not allowed.

When you’re talking directly to the little lady are you talking through the repeater?

When you’re talking to the little lady are you both using Fixed Stations?

You might be able to claim that you’re briefly testing…

But I don’t think anyone cares.  I know I don’t.

Well she's talking through the repeater.  I'm just not hearing it because of the reversed frequencies.  It's not like we're having deep discussions that last a long time.  Usually it's me telling her I'm going by the house over to this place or that.  Maybe if I say "testing" during the conversation it'll clear all that up.

[LeoG]

58 minutes ago, UncleYoda said:

On a normal repeater channel, Talk Around would be transmitting on 462, so that is allowed.  Maybe I misunderstood the idea though.

Heeeyyyyy...  You're right.  All good then.  Can't say anything about me listening to 467

[LeoG]

56 minutes ago, WRUE951 said:

Yet, a lot of people ignore the rule and talk simplex on them anyway, mostly travelers.   I guess they think they are being more 'private'   

It is more private.  You only hear one side of the conversation unless you are in the know.

[LeoG]

22 minutes ago, RoadApple said:

So, let me see if I have this right.  The "legal use" of 467Mhz simplex is all about the devices on each end of the communication as that determines if you are classified as a "Fixed Station". 

Seems to be a fluid definition....  When the radio in my house is being used to communicate with the radio in your house, we can call ourselves "Fixed Stations" and transmit simplex on 467Mhz.   But if a mobile or handheld popped up (simplex) on the same 467Mhz frequency and tried to contact us they would be in violation.  Likewise, if either one of us "Fixed Stations" failed to ignore that person's transmissions and communicated with that mobile or handheld (intentional or not), we would by virtue of that action, change our classification from a "Fixed Station" to a "Base Station" and would thus also be in violation for using 467Mhz simplex.      

   

As long as you keep it under 15 watts.  Unless they describe fixed to be one specific location to another specific location at all times.