Ham Radio Repeaters

[taco6513]

This is a general question about Ham radio repeaters. I received my ham licence a few months ago. My second week of having my license.

I has on the Skywarn repeater that the group I have been meeting with operates. I guess I failed to ID to the repeater owner's satisfaction.

He proceeded to get on the repeater and chew me a new ass. I tried to explain that I was new to the craft he didn't seem to give a ShXt.

This has left a sour taste in my mouth in regards to HAM in general. My wife heard the conversation and was just dumbfounded that some

would say that stuff. I have not talked on that repeater since. Plan to remove it from my radios.

 

Well hear is my question. Can HAM radio repeater be "Closed" or do they have to be "Open"?

IE Can a group require member ship or a fee to use there HAM repeater?

One of the new Hams I have met received a letter advising him that he would need to pay

membership after talking on the repeater that the person he was talking to owns.

I don't know anything about HAM radio.

Thanks

WRCW870

Gi5GXD

[berkinet]

Technically you can talk on any ham frequency you want to as long as you are not interfering with other stations. There are no private frequencies. However, that does not give you permission to turn on the proper PL/DPL and use a repeater without permission. And, if you were to talk simplex on the input frequency you might be accused of deliberate interference.  As to "private" repeaters. No, there cannot be a charge simply to use a repeater. However, access to a repeater may be limited to club or group members, and paying dues may be a requirement for membership. So, in that sense, as in GMRS, there are Open and Closed repeaters and they are usually identified as such in repeater listings.

 

However, my best advice to you is that there are a$$holes all over the world, in every field, endeavor and hobby and they are best left undisturbed. This guy you ran into is not representative of the vast majority of hams world-wide.   Enjoy the hobby and go find a group/repeater/frequency where there are people interested in talking to you.

[marcspaz]

I'm curious what sparked the verbal abuse? The rules say every 10 minutes and at the end of a session. What actually occurred?

 

I ask because some people seriously over use their ID... doing it every transmission, at the start and finish, every 2 minutes, etc. I wonder if he over uses his ID and thinks that's how it should be done.

 

I would like to think that if you're doing something as simple as missing an ID, one of the seasoned folks would put a reminder out. I do. I say "well, it looks like its ID time fellas." That way no one takes it personally and we all get the reminder.

 

 

Then I have heard some guys talk for 2 hours and never ID. Which is another pain point. LoL

[taco6513]

Well as Paul Harvey would say, 

 

We had a meeting of the Skywarn group. David said that he wasn't to concern about us remembering every bodies call signs all at once.

He said he wanting us to get our call sign out and correct.

David and Bill with to Woodward to repair one of the linked repeaters. It was the end of the day and I was curious of how they did?

So I had a brain fart and couldn't remember Davids call sign. So I called out "KI5GXD calling  David" before the repeater even 

keyed down Bryan (the repeater owner)(which does not even participate in the group) proceed to chew a hole over the air.

I told him I had only had my license for 2 weeks. He said he didn't care(he used other words). 

This was incorrect. However it could have been handled in several different ways. Including a phone call off air.

 

That is the rest of the story.....

 

KI5GXD

WRCW870

[berkinet]

... So I called out "KI5GXD calling David" before the repeater even

keyed down Bryan (the repeater owner)(which does not even participate in the group) proceed to chew a hole over the air.

... ...

This was incorrect ...

In fact, as far as the rules go, you were 100% correct. Period. There is no requirement to call another station by their call-sign. Yes, that is common practice, but, it is not required. Although also common practice, it is not even a requirement to identify your station at the start of a transmission. So, you could have just keyed the mic and said "hey david, you there?"

 

Should Bryan ever hassle you again here is chapter and verse.

CFR Title 47: §97.119 Station identification.

(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions...

On the other hand, the club may have its own operating policies and rules and those may address identification on their repeater. Though, even if you were in "violation" of their rules, that doesn't condone the manner in which you were spoken to. You might ask if there is such a set of rules. But, since you probably have no further interest in their repeater, it doesn't matter anyway.

[marcspaz]

Well as Paul Harvey would say, 

 

We had a meeting of the Skywarn group. David said that he wasn't to concern about us remembering every bodies call signs all at once.

He said he wanting us to get our call sign out and correct.

David and Bill with to Woodward to repair one of the linked repeaters. It was the end of the day and I was curious of how they did?

So I had a brain fart and couldn't remember Davids call sign. So I called out "KI5GXD calling  David" before the repeater even 

keyed down Bryan (the repeater owner)(which does not even participate in the group) proceed to chew a hole over the air.

I told him I had only had my license for 2 weeks. He said he didn't care(he used other words). 

This was incorrect. However it could have been handled in several different ways. Including a phone call off air.

 

That is the rest of the story.....

 

KI5GXD

WRCW870

 

Wow!  That's terrible.  Both simplex and on the repeaters, many of us call each other by name instead of station ID.  Especially if we are having an ongoing convo, even if there is a few minute break and we start back up.

 

As mentioned by berkinet, calling by station ID is common.  I would assume its because if I wanted to call for you (for example) there is only one KI5GXD, but there may be more than a few people named Lee who are listening.  There is nothing stating it has to be that way.  There is definitely no need for getting chewed out on the air.

 

Please don't let that spoil your interest in the hobby.  There is a tremendous amount of fun to be had.  Anecdotally from my 17+ years of experience, that is not even close to the norm.  It sounds like you just need to move on from that group.  I am positive there are a lot nicer people to associate with and usable repeaters around.

[quarterwave]

Sounds like he found a self appointed and knowledge lacking radio cop. 

 

I have been in radio for close to 30 years, had GMRS forever, worked in commercial service, just got my HAM license a couple weeks ago. I've been in no hurry to chat, but I did ask the local radio club President, whom I personally know, about "closed" repeaters, or any special courtesies, etc. He said if the repeater is listed (online as such...Repeater Book, etc) then it is open, and that locally things were cooperative and normal. They are trying to get more Hams licensed and build up the hobby. 

 

I did remember what a Ham told me years ago...out of courtesy, if you are going to use a club repeater much, join the club because repeaters and electricity aren't free. 

 

As far as remembering call signs...I applied for a vanity because I'll be lucky to remember my own! And, I have listened alot, and now and then someone comes on, ID's and asks if "xyz" is on...or simply by first name...and usually says "I can't remember your call". I know no rule or manner that suggests that is wrong. 

 

I agree though, if that is an individuals repeater, don't use it. Maybe eventually no one will talk to him. Get with the club and put up your own. 

[taco6513]

Quartwave: I have my own GMRS repeater here in my town. That is why this hasn't bothered me that much. I don't need his repeater at all. 

I use my repeater for business. personal, and just chatting. 

I have joined the Elk City group. I have talked to there members many many times with no problems.

Just seen I have a nack for finding the Aho*les in the world.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies and information. 

[taco6513]

This is the response I received from the ARRL:

 

First, I am sorry you are experiencing this kind of situation.

 

However, the repeater owner may make rules that are more strict than the FCC's requirements.  Nothing entitles any licensee to use any specific repeater simply because it is on the air. The trustee/owner is responsible for ensuring it operates with the established rules.  It sounds as you have tried to "jump through the hoops" but for whatever reason this particular individual wishes to be less than friendly... This isn't something that would be actionable by the FCC.  The best advice I can offer is for you to move on to another repeater.  I would suggest you ask other amateurs if there is another Skywarn net/repeater - I don't know that particulars on how it operates in your area.   

 

I am sorry again that you have had this type of experience.  Don't let it sour you on enjoying the hobby.

 

73

 

 

Dan Henderson, N1ND
Regulatory Information Manager
ARRL - the national association for Amateur Radio
Phone: 860-594-0236

 

 

[berkinet]

This is the response I received from the ARRL: ...

There are probably as many opinions of the ARRL as there are ham licenses. But, I will just say that for me, they are worse than useless. I joined when I got my ticket (a long time ago) and cancelled at the end of the first year and never regretted it.