Using a mobile radio as a base station

[berkinet]

... when I had satellite TV, I think their ground looked something like 12 gauge wire down to the side yard but I can't recall whether they had it attached to the metal gas pipe (thinking about it, wouldn't that be a bad idea?) or if I removed a post hammered into the dirt when I took everything out.  

 

It would most likely have been a cold water pipe, probably the entry to the house, or a copper rod driven into the ground. 8 feet is a common length for a grounding rod, but some are longer. If there was a rod, you'd probably remember trying to get it out. It would not have been easy.

[Savage]

It would most likely have been a cold water pipe, probably the entry to the house, or a copper rod driven into the ground. 8 feet is a common length for a grounding rod, but some are longer. If there was a rod, you'd probably remember trying to get it out. It would not have been easy.

 

Ah yes, there's some copper coming out of the garage and into the ground and this seems to be jogging my fuzzy memory (I think you're right).  One thing I do know is I did not pull out anything deep.  I think that copper actually ends up as PVC to my garden.  Is that copper pipe a feasible grounding point?  

 

There's also a gas line and that runs in that same small channel to my pool heater so if I ended up needing to drive something into the dirt, I'd have to dig and make sure I avoid everything I've run there.

[berkinet]

Ah yes, there's some copper coming out of the garage and into the ground and this seems to be jogging my fuzzy memory (I think you're right).  One thing I do know is I did not pull out anything deep.  I think that copper actually ends up as PVC to my garden.  Is that copper pipe a feasible grounding point?  

 

There's also a gas line and that runs in that same small channel to my pool heater so if I ended up needing to drive something into the dirt, I'd have to dig and make sure I avoid everything I've run there.

 A grounding rod is solid copper, probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch diameter.  I would not use h=just any copper pipe. You have no idea how well grounded it is and what you might do to equipment at the other end if you do have a lightning strike. That is why the cold water service entrance is often used... it goes back to the main.  A grounding rod would usually poe located directly adjacent to the house and the shortest practical wire run from there antenna.

 

You might also wish to take a look at the electrical service entrance to your house, where the meter is located. There is almost certainly a ground there. It should be bonded to the electrical ground wiring in your house. It will also be bonded to the neutral wire in the breaker panel or fuse box. But, don't get involved with that.  If there isn't a ground, either you missed it, or you need to call an electrician. 

[Savage]

 A grounding rod is solid copper, probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch diameter.  I would not use h=just any copper pipe. You have no idea how well grounded it is and what you might do to equipment at the other end if you do have a lightning strike. That is why the cold water service entrance is often used... it goes back to the main.  A grounding rod would usually poe located directly adjacent to the house and the shortest practical wire run from there antenna.

 

You might also wish to take a look at the electrical service entrance to your house, where the meter is located. There is almost certainly a ground there. It should be bonded to the electrical ground wiring in your house. It will also be bonded to the neutral wire in the breaker panel or fuse box. But, don't get involved with that.  If there isn't a ground, either you missed it, or you need to call an electrician. 

 

 

Thanks for all of the input - the electrical panel is on the side of the house so perhaps I'm back to doing it there since whether I use a rod or panel, those options only exist on this particular side of the house unless I want to do a longer run from the opposite side of the house but that means a much longer coax cable (and greater visibility of the antenna).

[Savage]

The more I look at this the more I think it's probably not a big deal to drive a grounding rod in.  I can dig past the gas pipe and since that's beyond all of the utility service entrances, all I have to avoid is that gas pipe, water and low voltage wire. 

 

Looks like Home Depot has a 5/8" rod, clamps and 8 gauge copper wire (can the ground be open (i.e. without the plastic covering?).

[mbrun]

Looks like Home Depot has a 5/8" rod, clamps and 8 gauge copper wire (can the ground be open (i.e. without the plastic covering?).

Yes. Ground wires used for lighting protection and antenna grounding outdoors are typically without insulation. Less expensive and one less thing to catch fire if you hit.

 

 

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[Savage]

Alright - I have everything but the cable (and lightning protection components)... 

 

I know there's probably variables preventing a straight answer, but thinking about this, there's a lot of simplicity (and probably more safety, for me) mounting this Tram antenna in my attic.

 

The question being, is the extra effort, etc. worth mounting on the exterior?  Will there be a noticeable difference in performance?  

 

Just to give a view, and don't laugh because the screenshot is from some landscaping software I use, but I've marked the two locations in this graphic.  One is mounted to the fascia board and the other is just inside the wall, in the attic, about 5' lower than it would be on the fascia.  The radio will be in the room directly below this.

 

[berkinet]

Given your SoCal location, I would go with the outside eave mount and then properly protect the coax.

[mbrun]

Alright - I have everything but the cable (and lightning protection components)...

 

I know there's probably variables preventing a straight answer, but thinking about this, there's a lot of simplicity (and probably more safety, for me) mounting this Tram antenna in my attic.

 

The question being, is the extra effort, etc. worth mounting on the exterior? Will there be a noticeable difference in performance?

 

Just to give a view, and don't laugh because the screenshot is from some landscaping software I use, but I've marked the two locations in this graphic. One is mounted to the fascia board and the other is just inside the wall, in the attic, about 5' lower than it would be on the fascia. The radio will be in the room directly below this.

 

I would go outside as berkinet has suggested, unless there is an overwhelming case for indoors. Whether it makes a difference has far more to do with how close you are to the edges of viable communication with your intended audience. You can easily test before you commit to permanent installation.

 

Case and point. I personally am literally on the edge of coverage of several repeaters. If I use the antenna indoors, I receive a usable but degraded signal from the repeater but cannot get into it at all. Move the antenna to other side of the wall (1’ horizontal distance) and receive improves plus now I can get into the repeater with partially usable audio.

 

I am of the opinion: put no obstacles between you and your target unless you have verified that such obstacles do not prevent you from achieving your objective. I would think you can easily confirm this.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

 

 

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[Savage]

Thanks guys, I'm convinced and will mount externally.

 

Given your SoCal location, I would go with the outside eave mount and then properly protect the coax.

 

When you say "properly protect" are you referring to grounding?  What I plan on doing (and please help me if this is not good...) is putting one of these inline (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYK5TU5/?coliid=I1N5MV9ORTQK7L&colid=WG94VUDFRLCV&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) and getting a grounding rod and wire to ground.  Really wish I didn't need to do this though.  Without the grounding wire on the side of the house, this would be clean straight from the antenna and into the attic vent, down into the room.

[tweiss3]

Thanks guys, I'm convinced and will mount externally.

 

 

When you say "properly protect" are you referring to grounding?  What I plan on doing (and please help me if this is not good...) is putting one of these inline (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LYK5TU5/?coliid=I1N5MV9ORTQK7L&colid=WG94VUDFRLCV&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it) and getting a grounding rod and wire to ground.  Really wish I didn't need to do this though.  Without the grounding wire on the side of the house, this would be clean straight from the antenna and into the attic vent, down into the room.

 

Get a real lightening polyphaser: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ppr-is-50ux-c0 or similar ($7 isn't going to provide adequate protection)

Mount it to a grounded utility enclosure: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-ue-2p (can be mounted high on the house near the entry)

Use something like 2GA grounding wire from the box to your ground rod IMMEDIATELY underneath the box: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/gcl-5021-tin-025 (keep it straight as possible, any bends shall be very gradual

[Savage]

Get a real lightening polyphaser: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ppr-is-50ux-c0 or similar ($7 isn't going to provide adequate protection)

Mount it to a grounded utility enclosure: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-ue-2p (can be mounted high on the house near the entry)

Use something like 2GA grounding wire from the box to your ground rod IMMEDIATELY underneath the box: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/gcl-5021-tin-025 (keep it straight as possible, any bends shall be very gradual

 

Thank you.  Would you recommend this same approach if I were to mount in the attic?

[tweiss3]

Thank you. Would you recommend this same approach if I were to mount in the attic?

I would recommend the equipment in you shack be grounded to your house ground. Your antenna ground rod and house ground rod/system should be bonded by 6GA ground wire per NEC.

 

Inside grounds inside.

Outside grounds outside

All grounding systems should be connected and bonded.

[tweiss3]

Thank you. Would you recommend this same approach if I were to mount in the attic?

Also, don't take my DX Engineering links as the only place to get stuff, but they are 15 minutes from my house and I can do drive up pick up, so I'm familiar with their website.

 

If you have another local radio shop nearby, by all means use them if you want.

[Jones]

Jeep enthusiasts should be familiar with DX engineering. It is a great place to buy ham radio and GMRS parts and accessories.  Also, a great place to buy off-roading parts and accessories - from their sister company - Summit Racing Equipment.

 

Summit Racing == DX engineering.

[tweiss3]

Jeep enthusiasts should be familiar with DX engineering. It is a great place to buy ham radio and GMRS parts and accessories. Also, a great place to buy off-roading parts and accessories - from their sister company - Summit Racing Equipment.

 

Summit Racing == DX engineering.

Yea, I'm more than well aware, that place has sucked plenty of cash from my pocket over the years, way before I got into radio.

 

Somehow I pick expensive hobbies, luckily the wife doesn't care all that much.