AGC enabled repeater

[8nannyfoe]

I live about 17 miles from a repeater.   I believe this repeater serves my area and requested access.   I was granted permission to use same.  I was supplied a quick response and the PL = XYZ.  I am new to GMRS and have never talked on a repeater.  I entered the supplied PL under the encode and decode line in my programing software.   This repeater also has an audio AGC enabling all users to sound the same.  The tower has an expected range of 15mi on an HT / 25mi on a mobile.    Sitting in my home, on my 5w HT I get the same experience as I do on my 50 watt mobile when interacting with the repeater.   When I release the key, I hear a static sound response for about 2/3 seconds.  This response is the same sound and duration whether from my 5w HT or my 50 watt mobile.   It doesn't matter if I click the mike key for a second or talk for about 30 seconds.   Same static response that occurs AFTER I let go of the key.   I even tried monitoring channel 20 and it gets the same response as well.   Just looking for feedback on what I'm doing wrong.  

[mbrun]

All repeaters that I have interacted with, GMRS and amateur repeater alike, all continue transmitting for a short time after someone who has connected to it has stopped transmitting. Some hang for a second or less, others may hang up to 5 seconds. So, if your radio is correctly configured, and the repeater opens up because it heard you, you will hear the repeater transmitting without audio for a brief time after you un-key That hang time is the most common way I know to get a sense of whether you got in or not. Alway give your callsign when doing even a simple test like this.

 

Now, there is more to know. Just because you may have caused the repeater to open up, it does not mean that your signal is strong enough to be usable. Case in point. I have a number of repeaters in my area. I am on the fringe for all of them when I am on my HT. Some days I can get in with enough audio to hold a conversation, on other days my signal is sufficient to open the repeater but audio is so low as to be just noise.

 

Also, if you have two radios, say your HT and your mobile, and you operate one in close proximity to the other, the receiving radio may not pickup the signal from the repeater because you’re transmitting radio is overloading it. You may have to separate the radios by some distance for one of your radios to hear the other when communicating via the repeater. When you experience this, this is what is referred to as ‘desense’.

 

I advocate driving close to the repeater for testing and then driving back to your home to see how things go along the way.

 

So far, I have not identified anything yet that you may be doing wrong, but perhaps my information above will be enlightening. What are you expecting that you are not experiencing?

 

I live about 17 miles from a repeater. I believe this repeater serves my area and requested access. I was granted permission to use same. I was supplied a quick response and the PL = XYZ. I am new to GMRS and have never talked on a repeater. I entered the supplied PL under the encode and decode line in my programing software. This repeater also has an audio AGC enabling all users to sound the same. The tower has an expected range of 15mi on an HT / 25mi on a mobile. Sitting in my home, on my 5w HT I get the same experience as I do on my 50 watt mobile when interacting with the repeater. When I release the key, I hear a static sound response for about 2/3 seconds. This response is the same sound and duration whether from my 5w HT or my 50 watt mobile. It doesn't matter if I click the mike key for a second or talk for about 30 seconds. Same static response that occurs AFTER I let go of the key. I even tried monitoring channel 20 and it gets the same response as well. Just looking for feedback on what I'm doing wrong.

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

[JohnE]

Its called hang time. the difference between the receiver closing and the transmitter unkeying. typically 2-3 seconds is the norm, some are longer or shorter and/or have tones to let you know someone has let go of the key.

 

I advocate driving close to the repeater for testing and then driving back to your home to see how things go along the way.

agreed

[gortex2]

As was stated most likely the hang time on the repeater. If its static your not close enough or maybe house or other items are shielding signal. IF you get closer to the repeater you should still hear the tail but just a carrier. Some repeaters have PL on the tail and some do not. It depends on the controller in the repeater. Most of mine allow no PL on tail and that's the way I have them setup. 

[8nannyfoe]

All repeaters that I have interacted with, GMRS and amateur repeater alike, all continue transmitting for a short time after someone who has connected to it has stopped transmitting. Some hang for a second or less, others may hang up to 5 seconds. So, if your radio is correctly configured, and the repeater opens up because it heard you, you will hear the repeater transmitting without audio for a brief time after you un-key That hang time is the most common way I know to get a sense of whether you got in or not. Alway give your callsign when doing even a simple test like this.

 

Now, there is more to know. Just because you may have caused the repeater to open up, it does not mean that your signal is strong enough to be usable. Case in point. I have a number of repeaters in my area. I am on the fringe for all of them when I am on my HT. Some days I can get in with enough audio to hold a conversation, on other days my signal is sufficient to open the repeater but audio is so low as to be just noise.

 

Also, if you have two radios, say your HT and your mobile, and you operate one in close proximity to the other, the receiving radio may not pickup the signal from the repeater because you’re transmitting radio is overloading it. You may have to separate the radios by some distance for one of your radios to hear the other when communicating via the repeater. When you experience this, this is what is referred to as ‘desense’.

 

I advocate driving close to the repeater for testing and then driving back to your home to see how things go along the way.

 

So far, I have not identified anything yet that you may be doing wrong, but perhaps my information above will be enlightening. What are you expecting that you are not experiencing?

 

 

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

Hi Michael,   So I will experiment with the "desense" issue today.  Never heard of that before.  I've used plenty of radios in simplex and that was never an issue before so I didn't know it would happen with a repeater.   Also I have never heard of a "tail" .   That explains the equal (volume and duration) static sound "report" I got from the repeater regardless of which radio I was using.   Apparently both are able to open the repeater.   Hopefully, desense is keeping them from communicating and it not be a worse problem.....ie....out of range.   Big thing, its NOT the AGC feature somehow canceling me out.

[8nannyfoe]

 

I live about 17 miles from a repeater.   I believe this repeater serves my area and requested access.   I was granted permission to use same.  I was supplied a quick response and the PL = XYZ.  I am new to GMRS and have never talked on a repeater.  I entered the supplied PL under the encode and decode line in my programing software.   This repeater also has an audio AGC enabling all users to sound the same.  The tower has an expected range of 15mi on an HT / 25mi on a mobile.    Sitting in my home, on my 5w HT I get the same experience as I do on my 50 watt mobile when interacting with the repeater.   When I release the key, I hear a static sound response for about 2/3 seconds.  This response is the same sound and duration whether from my 5w HT or my 50 watt mobile.   It doesn't matter if I click the mike key for a second or talk for about 30 seconds.   Same static response that occurs AFTER I let go of the key.   I even tried monitoring channel 20 and it gets the same response as well.   Just looking for feedback on what I'm doing wrong.  

Follow up:   So the HT/mobile desense issue....was not the issue.   The problem was no one was on the radio last night when I tried.   Both are able to make the 17 plus mile trip to the repeater.   The static sounding "tail" is exactly what I was hearing from both the HT/mobile units.   From the testing I did, I learned several additional things.   I am shocked and impressed with the range this Wouxon 805 has!  Repeaters are game changers.  And lastly this forum is an invaluable info source.   Thanks for all the input!  

[mbrun]

Follow up: So the HT/mobile desense issue....was not the issue. The problem was no one was on the radio last night when I tried. Both are able to make the 17 plus mile trip to the repeater. The static sounding "tail" is exactly what I was hearing from both the HT/mobile units. From the testing I did, I learned several additional things. I am shocked and impressed with the range this Wouxon 805 has! Repeaters are game changers. And lastly this forum is an invaluable info source. Thanks for all the input!

Glad to hear you have had success.

 

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM

[mbrun]

Hi Michael, So I will experiment with the "desense" issue today. Never heard of that before. I've used plenty of radios in simplex and that was never an issue before so I didn't know it would happen with a repeater. Also I have never heard of a "tail" . That explains the equal (volume and duration) static sound "report" I got from the repeater regardless of which radio I was using. Apparently both are able to open the repeater. Hopefully, desense is keeping them from communicating and it not be a worse problem.....ie....out of range. Big thing, its NOT the AGC feature somehow canceling me out.

The reason you may not have experienced it before when operating two nearby radios on simplex is 1) because both were using the same frequency, or 2) because both radios were not trying to be used for communications at exactly the same time.

 

Desense is the phenomenon that occurs when a strong undesirable signal in the airwaves prevents your receiver from being able to pick out of the airwaves the signal you want it to. You can relate it to a person standing dead-center right in front of a car on a dim moonlight night and the headlights of the car are on high beam. From some distance away you face the headlights but you cannot see the person standing between the headlights because the car’s headlights are overloading (or ‘desensing’) your eyes.

 

If the headlights are exactly what you want to see then you are in great shape. However if it is the person between the headlights you want to see you are clearly out of luck.

 

The reason this can and will affect you at times in radio is that when using two closely located radios, both accessing the same repeater, is that accessing the repeater requires two frequencies at the same time. The transmitting radio is operating on one frequency (the undesired one in this case) while the other radio is listening on the desired frequency (the one coming from the repeater in this case).

 

Hope I did not throw too much mud in the water.

 

Regards,

 

 

Michael

WRHS965

KE8PLM