Simplex Repeaters

[OldRadioGuy]

There is such a thing as a simplex repeater that is fairly cheap and simple, but......

This is not for socializing or that kind of thing like duplex repeaters.

It is intended for emergency comms or remote areas like a hunting camp or something.

Maybe you would use it for special event with a club - for essential or emergency communications only.

 

https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=98

 

It is not clear to me whether the law specifically addresses these for use on GMRS.

I did not find a definitive answer.

Definitely check further if you are considering it seriously.

 

This is a clever audio accessory that you can interface to just about any radio.

People (who are licensed) use them on ham bands and you can use the same device with various radios as long as you get the right cable.

You do not use a "repeater channel" with split frequency operation... there is no offset.  It all happens on the same frequency.

You use a normal simplex channel.

 

You interface this to a radio that you place on high ground in your area of operation.

Maybe you park a vehicle equipped with it on a hill above the area you are hunting. 

The "repeater" radio will repeat every message that it hears - delayed in time.

So you will hear yourself on "the repeater" after you are done talking.

If you are within "direct" range of another talker you will hear him twice - once direct and once on the repeater. 

 

Obviously this is a rather "clunky" (but clever) system intended for essential communications in remote areas.

It is of very limited use but for certain situations it could be real a life saver. 

 

Of course, do not even consider buying one of these unless you FULLY understand exactly how it is used.

Also, of course, you would need to be sure they are completely legal for GMRS.  I did not find a clear answer.

Even so, I would only consider using it "in the middle of nowhere" for special situations like hunting camps.

 

So, do not go and buy one of these and put it up at home thinking your are going to have a "real" repeater for hanging out with your friends.

That's not what it is.  It's just a curiosity for most of us.

I think it's "wicked" clever.... but I'm probably not going to buy one.

 

Vince

 

 

[Extreme]

Sounds like a hoot - hoot..

 

I don't think this would work well in our situation where we're trying to minimize communication and noise.  We do use ear buds but it would be 'clunky', as you say, listening to both sides of the conversation twice.. kind of an echo condition.  We already have some issues with straight talk and getting coordinates, etc.

 

Nice idea in a pinch I guess.

 

Thanks.

[wayoverthere]

While it has the flexibility to be used on otherwise non repeater capable radios, couldn't it be made to work with the normal repeater channels as well? As long as you have a radio with dual watch, set to monitor the "repeater input" (467.xxx) and set the transmit yo the normal output side (462.xxx).

 

The new 95e certified baofeng comes to mind, mainly from experience with the uv5r and dual watch, but I'm sure there's lots of other options with similar capability. And it would address the "hearing twice" thing, though the delay is inevitable for a simplex repeater.

[gortex2]

We have used this in the past for SAR work. While it helped it caused major confusion and 90% of the time was useless. As said its clunky and the end user needs to know to not talk for x amount of time all the time. Its still in my box of tools for SAR but it would need to be a very specific incident where I tried to use it again. It really was no value.

[OldRadioGuy]

While it has the flexibility to be used on otherwise non repeater capable radios, couldn't it be made to work with the normal repeater channels as well? As long as you have a radio with dual watch, set to monitor the "repeater input" (467.xxx) and set the transmit yo the normal output side (462.xxx).

 

The new 95e certified baofeng comes to mind, mainly from experience with the uv5r and dual watch, but I'm sure there's lots of other options with similar capability. And it would address the "hearing twice" thing, though the delay is inevitable for a simplex repeater.

You would NEVER use this on a repeater channel - EVER.

Like I said, it is only for very unique situations in the middle of nowhere.

Don't buy one unless you fully understand what it is - and more importantly - what it isn't.

 

I totally agree with anyone that says it's clunky and confusing to many.

It's a cool trick but only for very well informed users.

 

VK

[wayoverthere]

You would NEVER use this on a repeater channel - EVER.

Like I said, it is only for very unique situations in the middle of nowhere.

Don't buy one unless you fully understand what it is - and more importantly - what it isn't.

 

I totally agree with anyone that says it's clunky and confusing to many.

It's a cool trick but only for very well informed users.

 

VK

More thinking out loud than any intent to get one. One of those "just because you can doesn't mean you should" kind of things, but interesting to ponder.

 

More general (honest question, trying to understand because I wouldn't say I'm even close to well informed...), what would be the issue if this were set up with a radio configured like a repeater (receive on 467.xxx, retransmit on 462.xxx, appropriate access tones on both) vs just going back and forth on the 462.xxx in simplex? The output frequency gets tied up whether simplex or duplex either way. And the repeater input side is tied up to send whether it's to an actual repeater or a simplex box.

 

I can see you'd need to configure the tones correctly to keep it from becoming an endless loop if it were done with dual watch. The only other issue i can see is simplex repeat doesn't have a capability to listen before transmitting....busy channel lockout could address this, but you'd lose what you're trying to repeat in that scenario because the box won't know the radio isn't transmitting.

 

Is there something else I'm missing?

[OldRadioGuy]

More thinking out loud than any intent to get one. One of those "just because you can doesn't mean you should" kind of things, but interesting to ponder.

 

More general (honest question, trying to understand because I wouldn't say I'm even close to well informed...), what would be the issue if this were set up with a radio configured like a repeater (receive on 467.xxx, retransmit on 462.xxx, appropriate access tones on both) vs just going back and forth on the 462.xxx in simplex? The output frequency gets tied up whether simplex or duplex either way. And the repeater input side is tied up to send whether it's to an actual repeater or a simplex box.

 

I can see you'd need to configure the tones correctly to keep it from becoming an endless loop if it were done with dual watch. The only other issue i can see is simplex repeat doesn't have a capability to listen before transmitting....busy channel lockout could address this, but you'd lose what you're trying to repeat in that scenario because the box won't know the radio isn't transmitting.

 

Is there something else I'm missing?

For this to work you would have to set the repeater radio to REVERSE the TX and RX frequencies.

Ham radios all have this but I don't think GMRS radios generally do unless you program them through a computer.

 

I don't see any advantage in using it this way because you'd still have big delays and no real way of knowing what's up.

Using it simplex you'd maybe here some noise while the other person is talking before hearing the clear repeated message. 

So maybe you'd have a hint when the other party is talking an know to wait.

 

I think for many situations a "human repeater" would actually work better.

You get "Bob" to park up on a hill and when you can't get through to "Dave" directly you get "Bob" to relay to him.

This way you have an "intelligent" simplex repeater that only repeats when necessary..... as long as Bob doesn't mind sitting up on the hill all day.

 

Vince

[wayoverthere]

Vince,

 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify.

 

For this to work you would have to set the repeater radio to REVERSE the TX and RX frequencies.

Ham radios all have this but I don't think GMRS radios generally do unless you program them through a computer.

 

I don't see any advantage in using it this way because you'd still have big delays and no real way of knowing what's up.

Using it simplex you'd maybe here some noise while the other person is talking before hearing the clear repeated message.

So maybe you'd have a hint when the other party is talking an know to wait.

 

I think for many situations a "human repeater" would actually work better.

You get "Bob" to park up on a hill and when you can't get through to "Dave" directly you get "Bob" to relay to him.

This way you have an "intelligent" simplex repeater that only repeats when necessary..... as long as Bob doesn't mind sitting up on the hill all day.

 

Vince

[axorlov]

Simplex repeater appears not to be allowed. There are words about "store and forward" not being allowed in all Part 95. However, I actually have and I use Argent Data simplex repeater. I only use it in the mountains, never in the urban area. The ADS-SR1 can be configured in a smart way: it will not automatically blurt out anything it hears. It will record and sit quietly, until it hears DTMF "0", only then it repeats the last recorded message.

So usage mode is this: we talk on simplex with HTs, while ADS-SR1 quietly sits in the car, parked in good spot (or any available spot), connected to 40W TK-880 and efficient antenna. It does not repeat anything. Then I find myself far from the others where HTs are not picking signal. I call and wait for sufficient time to answer (say 1 minute), and then I send DTMF "0". Simplex repeater hears it and shouts out the last call (supposedly mine) with all 40W out of efficient antenna. I hear it myself, I know that now it reached recipients, most likely. This scheme works like a charm. You do not pollute the waves until really needed.

[peatious]

Ill probably use two radios with a repeater cable to their speakermic connections. but this simplex repeater with a radio that has a dcs tone for rx and a ctss for tx, for example. you transmit to it with the dcs and set your radio to only receive with the ctss, set your radio to for bid tx when busy....and then the only echo you ever hear is your own tx.. also a dual watch radio could literally listen to the repeater tx and have it set to vox tx on the other freq. it would just be a delayed repeater. sounds kinda bad and youd have to tx sparingly