Antenna and Mount Selection Questions

[joltman]

I've had my GMRS license for nearly a year now.  I've used the Midland GMRS handheld radios for a few wheeling trips with my local 4x4 club.  My wife has complained (rightly so) that the handhelds are really difficult to use while driving, not to mention the limited range sitting inside the truck.  I want to cleanly mount a GMRS mobile radio in my vehicle, but the Midlands don't have a detachable head.  I then discovered the Wouxun KG-1000G.  This looks like it's the ticket!  Before I get this radio, I want to have a plan in place for mounting the antenna.  My goal is to have a nice coax run to the outside of my vehicle (using a rubber grommet on the rear quarter panel of the truck).  From there, I want to run the cable up to my OEM roof rack.  I'd like to use one of the Gamiviti MultiBrackets and attach a swivel antenna mount.  This should allow me to leave the antenna down for when I'm not using it.  When I hit the trail, I can flip it up and go.  When I hit a car wash, I can take it off.  My philosophy has been "buy once, cry once" and that's what I'm going for with this radio project.  I was hoping to get some solid recommendations on:

 

• Proper Antenna Mount (screw on, I'm assuming which means I'll need a weatherproof screw on cap for when I need to take the antenna off the mount)
• GMRS Only Screw On Antenna
• Coax Cable Recommendation (something I can use for both amateur bands as well as GMRS)
• Connector Type that would be compatible with this radio, and maybe an amateur radio in the future (I'm not afraid of soldering)

My thoughts are I would use the GMRS mobile radio for years to come.  I am studying for my Technicians license.  If I decide down the road that I want to move to an amateur radio instead of the GMRS, I'd like to not have to re-run coax or resolder connectors and use the same antenna mount.  If this means I have to manually tune the GMRS antenna, then I'll need a proper SWR meter for GMRS.  Any recommendations on that would be helpful as well.

I guess lastly, am I over-thinking this?  I like the idea of re-using a cable and mount,  but if it's a bad idea, I'd like to know that up front.  Thanks for your advice!

 

[TOM47]

2 hours ago, joltman said:

I've had my GMRS license for nearly a year now.  I've used the Midland GMRS handheld radios for a few wheeling trips with my local 4x4 club.  My wife has complained (rightly so) that the handhelds are really difficult to use while driving, not to mention the limited range sitting inside the truck.  I want to cleanly mount a GMRS mobile radio in my vehicle, but the Midlands don't have a detachable head.  I then discovered the Wouxun KG-1000G.  This looks like it's the ticket!  Before I get this radio, I want to have a plan in place for mounting the antenna.  My goal is to have a nice coax run to the outside of my vehicle (using a rubber grommet on the rear quarter panel of the truck).  From there, I want to run the cable up to my OEM roof rack.  I'd like to use one of the Gamiviti MultiBrackets and attach a swivel antenna mount.  This should allow me to leave the antenna down for when I'm not using it.  When I hit the trail, I can flip it up and go.  When I hit a car wash, I can take it off.  My philosophy has been "buy once, cry once" and that's what I'm going for with this radio project.  I was hoping to get some solid recommendations on:

 

• Proper Antenna Mount (screw on, I'm assuming which means I'll need a weatherproof screw on cap for when I need to take the antenna off the mount)
• GMRS Only Screw On Antenna
• Coax Cable Recommendation (something I can use for both amateur bands as well as GMRS)
• Connector Type that would be compatible with this radio, and maybe an amateur radio in the future (I'm not afraid of soldering)

My thoughts are I would use the GMRS mobile radio for years to come.  I am studying for my Technicians license.  If I decide down the road that I want to move to an amateur radio instead of the GMRS, I'd like to not have to re-run coax or resolder connectors and use the same antenna mount.  If this means I have to manually tune the GMRS antenna, then I'll need a proper SWR meter for GMRS.  Any recommendations on that would be helpful as well.

I guess lastly, am I over-thinking this?  I like the idea of re-using a cable and mount,  but if it's a bad idea, I'd like to know that up front.  Thanks for your advice!

 

YES

[wayoverthere]

7 hours ago, joltman said:

I guess lastly, am I over-thinking this?  I like the idea of re-using a cable and mount,  but if it's a bad idea, I'd like to know that up front.  Thanks for your advice!

 

Truthfully but understandably...yes, overthinking a little.

GMRS and 70cm ham bands are still UHF, and quite similar.  There's no reason you couldn't do the mount of your choice, either mag or hard mount, and swap antennas at will. NMO mounts and NMO antennas are plentiful, and almost anything meant for UHF that covers the 450-470 is usable, whether or not it states GMRS. A SWR meter will be a very good thing to have, though more to double check than necessarily tuning.  Most mounts, whether hard mount (bracket or drill through) or mag mount will come with cable; you'll find a few options on connectors, along with unterminated, but most radios will be uhf connector (pl-259 is the male side, so-239 is the female side).  Not familiar with the swivel mount, so I'd be a tad wary about the antenna bouncing against something when folded, and might lean toward swapping to a shorter antenna off-trail.  depending on your trails, having a short antenna available might not be a bad thing anyway (more trees and brush on the trails here).

i currently swap antennas on a midland mag mount; it's gone through a variety of antennas, both gmrs and ham.  I mostly run a Browning uhf 5/8 over 5/8 wave which trades some gain for more frequency flexibility; it plays nice with both 70cm and GMRS.  Since the Browning is a little tall at 33" above the roof of my truck, it gets changed out for one of two (70 cm or GMRS) Laird 1/4 waves as needed for clearance (which are only 6"-ish tall).  radio wise, i previously used a mxt115 for GMRS, and various handhelds for ham, but recently put in a mobile that covers both (90/95a certified Vertex).

[wayoverthere]

(deleted double post)

Edited September 15, 2021 by wayoverthere
double post.

[mbrun]

I use the Midland NMO mag mount on my Ford Escape. It resides top-dead center of my vehicle roof, immediately behind the first roof carrier cross bar. Cable is dressed to the roof rack members all the way back where it enters the vehicle through the hatch seam. Has worked great for me over the last year.

I have two NMO antennas I use, one optimized for GMRS (the Midland MXTA26), one for ham bands (a Comet). I do swap the antennas based on the radio I am using. The SWR on both antenna is great for their intended bands, but neither is quite acceptable to me for use outside their design range, so I just switch them out. A bit inconvenient I admit, but very doable.

I also use various HT in the vehicle connected to the external antenna and overall have been pleased with the results. I use the KG1000G in the home as a base. One thing I am certain you will appreciate is how loud the radio can get while in the car. Volume can be a weakness of using an HT in the vehicle, particularly if you traveling with the windows down.

I admit, I have not placed a cap over NMO mount when going through the car wash. I just wipe it off good before putting the antenna back on when leaving the wash. One or the other antenna is otherwise always installed.


Michael
WRHS965
KE8PLM

[daschnoz]

Any SWR meter that will handle the 462/467MHz range will get the job done.  Mine measures SWR, power, and frequency. They're not that expensive.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D86IKIQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As for coax:

RG-58 is fine if I'm messing around in the shack.   For a permanent install I use nothing less than LMR-240 (including my HF antenna).  The VHF/UHF antenna runs around the shack are DRF-400 (same specs as LMR, but 20% cheaper).  For a mobile install, you're going to need to balance your acceptable coax loss with what is practical.  I'm using LMR-240 in the mobile install.

[wayoverthere]

3 hours ago, daschnoz said:

Any SWR meter that will handle the 462/467MHz range will get the job done.  Mine measures SWR, power, and frequency. They're not that expensive.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D86IKIQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1.

I have almost the same one, but with uhf connectors. I've found the readings to pretty much agree with the vna as far as I've seen

[joltman]

Thanks for all the replies!  So I guess I didn't express my intents well enough.  I will be putting in a dedicated amateur radio (most likely the Kenwood TM-D710G).  I will want a dedicated GMRS radio as well (again, the Wouxun most likely).  However, if in the future I want to get rid of the Wouxun, I don't want to rerun coax or put in a new mount.  This to me means I'd need the correct external mount that would accommodate a screw on antenna (is this NMO mount?).  Then I could use a dedicated GMRS UHF antenna (or trim an appropriate antenna to give me the best SNR in the 465MHz range, half way-ish between 462 and 467).  It sounds like maybe I should go to the local HRO store and see what they have too.  Is this a good plan?  Thanks!

[wayoverthere]

6 hours ago, mbrun said:

I admit, I have not placed a cap over NMO mount when going through the car wash. I just wipe it off good before putting the antenna back on when leaving the wash. One or the other antenna is otherwise always installed.

I will say the mag mounts (I have a couple of the Midland and a Browning) do look a bit better protected than the hard mounts with the threaded centers. Since I have nothing else to tie the cable to, I just pull the mount off, antenna and all, and toss it in the cab when I run through the car wash.

4 minutes ago, joltman said:

Thanks for all the replies!  So I guess I didn't express my intents well enough.  I will be putting in a dedicated amateur radio (most likely the Kenwood TM-D710G).  I will want a dedicated GMRS radio as well (again, the Wouxun most likely).  However, if in the future I want to get rid of the Wouxun, I don't want to rerun coax or put in a new mount.  This to me means I'd need the correct external mount that would accommodate a screw on antenna (is this NMO mount?).  Then I could use a dedicated GMRS UHF antenna (or trim an appropriate antenna to give me the best SNR in the 465MHz range, half way-ish between 462 and 467).  It sounds like maybe I should go to the local HRO store and see what they have too.  Is this a good plan?  Thanks!

Yes, sounds like you're on the right track. There are a couple different types of screw on, NMO is the one to get, similar to the link below.... though that one appears nicely enclosed under the nmo and might not be bad on a hard mount. Some are more open underneath, intended for attaching through sheet metal with the underside protected.  You can absolutely reuse a nmo mount and swap a gmrs aerial out and put your choice of nmo-compatible ham aerial in.

https://www.amazon.com/Browning-WSPBR1015-Enclosed-Hole-Mount/dp/B00BLCLUJ6/

[fillmoreranger]

Quote

On 9/15/2021 at 1:08 AM, wayoverthere said:

Since the Browning is a little tall at 33" above the roof of my truck, it gets changed out for one of two (70 cm or GMRS) Laird 1/4 waves as needed for clearance (which are only 6"-ish tall).

 

Just curious about those Laird ¼ wave shorties… How is the TX/RX on those?

[wayoverthere]

7 hours ago, fillmoreranger said:

Just curious about those Laird ¼ wave shorties… How is the TX/RX on those?

Haven't been to the office (main place I need the clearance) since I got them, but there was a very minor (but noticeable if you really listened) difference in both rx and tx using the near repeater (~30 miles out in the hills) with a Midland 1/4 wave and the mxt115.

[fillmoreranger]

12 hours ago, wayoverthere said:

Haven't been to the office (main place I need the clearance) since I got them, but there was a very minor (but noticeable if you really listened) difference in both rx and tx using the near repeater (~30 miles out in the hills) with a Midland 1/4 wave and the mxt115.

Thanks for the reply. Does the ¼ wave shorties get out as far as the taller mobile antennas? If overall performance is not too adversely impacted… I was thinking of a shorter GMRS antenna for mounting on top of a F-150 cab… for “ceiling clearance” issues (parking garages, etc.). 

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I assume the Laird ¼ wave shorty is on a NMO base? Finally, are there performance issues mounting antennas on the aluminum body of the F-150, versus a steel body?

Thanks for your help on this.

[wayoverthere]

19 minutes ago, fillmoreranger said:

Thanks for the reply. Does the ¼ wave shorties get out as far as the taller mobile antennas? If overall performance is not too adversely impacted… I was thinking of a shorter GMRS antenna for mounting on top of a F-150 cab… for “ceiling clearance” issues (parking garages, etc.). 

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I assume the Laird ¼ wave shorty is on a NMO base? Finally, are there performance issues mounting antennas on the aluminum body of the F-150, versus a steel body?

Thanks for your help on this.

Yes, the lairds (and everything else i have, except a dual band ham base antenna) is NMO base.  

I haven't done any specific testing back to back, but everything I've read, and what I've seen in use, indicates the 1/4 waves trade a small amount of absolute range and a little signal strength in both directions at the fringes compared to other configurations....the whole "squishing the donut" visual. On the flip side, the 1/4 will have a wider range vertically than the others.

On the aluminum thing, again, no direct experience, but I've read it's not an issue. 

[gortex2]

There is no issues mounting on a aluminum truck such as the f150. I have 6 NMO mounts in my current F150 and 4 in my last one. Radios have been installed in fire trucks and ambulances for years in aluminum. I prefer a quality NMO mount but any NMO will work fine. I run 1/4 wave on both my UHF radios and they work fine for 99% of the stuff I do.